Author Topic: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!  (Read 7437 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ironglow

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31333
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #120 on: November 24, 2007, 07:26:30 AM »
  NONYA;
    Don't you mean 3,000 fps ?..LOL
 
   I like the new ballistic tips on my .17 HMR for groundhogs & other varmints. but old fashioned as I probably am, I like rounds like the Winchester CXP for my 30-30 & .308 on large game.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #121 on: November 24, 2007, 08:03:22 AM »
Because they have a tendency to EXPLODE on impact and spread fragments of the bullet throughout you game,if you never shoot them near the 300 fps mark you may never have a problem with them,but for those of us who have and have seen how they DONT perform we have learned a lesson you will eventually if you shoot enough game with them.Many of you are ok with a low budget hunting bullet that explodes and makes huge impressive wound channels that may or may not result in a recovered animal,many of us are not.

No...they don't have a tendency to explode on impact...sure...they expand a-lot they aren't bonded...they are like any other cup & core bullet...they come apart driven at high velocities and when shooting into an animal up close...that is what they are designed to do in the lighter bullet weights...BTW....You have already changed your story of this incident several times Nonya...First it didn't make it past the hide & hair...and you had to finish it off with a 45 ACP...then when that ruse didn't work and all the fighting about it where Graybeard had to intervene......now it didn't make it past the shoulder... Come on ...Give it a rest...You don't like them...Fine...but quit slamming them for something they don't normally do...I've taken plenty of deer with them...in many different calibers...with muzzle velocities above 3000fps...so has many others...some with exit wounds similar to yours....Never have I had one that exploded on impact...Varmint bullets...yes...but not their hunting weight bullets...Of course I haven't shot any 30lb. fawn antelopes with them under 50 yards either from a 7mm mag...that's not my hunting style....since it's yours...might I suggest a smaller caliber at a much slower velocity...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline NONYA

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2223
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #122 on: November 24, 2007, 03:53:56 PM »
I might suggest you drop your know it all attitude and quite trying to pick apart my accounts of the bullet failures,they happened sorry you cant accept it.Im not going to slow all my rifles down to under 3000 fps in order to get half ass performance out of a cheap "hunting" bullet,no thanx.It was an entrance wound and if you are suggesting otherwise it just proves what a jerk you really are.If you go back and read my unedited thread i describe exactly what it did,and none of your recollections of it are correct,maybe you have a short memory but I think you just like to start S%^$ and then whine when people defend themselves against your arrogance.I make a report about a POS bullet and its lack of performance and you react as if it were a personal attack on yourself,do you really have so little to do that you will defend the "honor" of a nosler BT with insults and accusations?GET A LIFE!
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
http://www.freewebs.com/lifealongthedge/index.htm

Offline nomosendero

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #123 on: November 24, 2007, 05:20:47 PM »
Because they have a tendency to EXPLODE on impact and spread fragments of the bullet throughout you game,if you never shoot them near the 300 fps mark you may never have a problem with them,but for those of us who have and have seen how they DONT perform we have learned a lesson you will eventually if you shoot enough game with them.Many of you are ok with a low budget hunting bullet that explodes and makes huge impressive wound channels that may or may not result in a recovered animal,many of us are not.

Because what? Read the original silly comment before you respond would be good. You can't blow soft lungs into a harder tenderloin. 

If I shoot enough game with them as you have, hmmm!!! You said before you shot 2 with the 7 mag load at 2,950 or so at less than 100 yards(probably much less) & got that famous exit, I mean entrance. Oh, I guess we should assume you shot a few others at different times, (although if you did with bad results why did you continue). Problem is I already told you I had shot 25 or so with a 180 gr BT in a 30-06 AI at the same approximate vel. you were doing with your 7 mag. & this with a bullet of a similar SD to the 150 7mm. On top of that, these 30 cal. bullets were the older, softer BT back when they called them Solid Base Bal. Tips. And then later I have killed Antelope with a 30-30AI & also Deer with various cal. B.T.s & a 300# Hog with a 6.5x55 with a 120BT. Actually, I have taken SEVERAL times more animals than you with the Bal. Tip unless you want to change the story again as you tend to do when it comes to this subject. And BTW, I shot a Whitetail Buck with a friends 7mag who had loaded up some of those 150 BT bullets at 3,250fps. The expansion was dramatic, but so was the EXIT, yea EXIT.

Fact is, I know I can't duplicate the "wound" you took a picture of no matter how many animal I might shoot. I went past the century mark in Deer kills a long time ago using alot of loads & I know about what to expect, so I don't see the "Big Bang Theory" in the near future.

Now maybe if I loaded the 120gr 7mm BT at 3,600fps & shot a baby animal at 10 feet, well who knows, but why bother. 
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #124 on: November 24, 2007, 07:02:30 PM »
I might suggest you drop your know it all attitude and quite trying to pick apart my accounts of the bullet failures,they happened sorry you cant accept it.Im not going to slow all my rifles down to under 3000 fps in order to get half ass performance out of a cheap "hunting" bullet,no thanx.It was an entrance wound and if you are suggesting otherwise it just proves what a jerk you really are.If you go back and read my unedited thread i describe exactly what it did,and none of your recollections of it are correct,maybe you have a short memory but I think you just like to start S%^$ and then whine when people defend themselves against your arrogance.I make a report about a POS bullet and its lack of performance and you react as if it were a personal attack on yourself,do you really have so little to do that you will defend the "honor" of a nosler BT with insults and accusations?GET A LIFE!


First off...I didn't start this mickey mouse BS...you did...http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,128010.0.html...Then as now I have my opinion on the validity of your story...I've taken many deer with Nosler bullets...They haven't once let me down...I really don't need to defend Nosler...they are a fine company who makes a great product...and no amount of BS from you is going to change that fact.I've shot deer from a few yards to well over 500 yards...just as you say you have...so...let's put this in perspective shall we...and discuss the facts...

1...Your the so-called hunter who shot a fawn antelope in the side with a 7mm Mag under 100 yards...and then went on to rant and rave about a bullet that supposedly blew up on the hide & hair
2...Your the one who has gone out of their way to slam a company..and continue to do so...even when told not to...
Quote from: Graybeard
BUT we're NOT gonna have a smear campaign against the bullet maker going on here because you failed to use the proper bullet for the application or because a weird set of circumstances conspired to cause it to make a weird turn.
3...Your the one who when ask...couldn't answer the questions put to you...
4...Your the one who has changed your story several times about the same incident...

The problem here Nonya...is quite simple...You want to state this so-called incident as a fact on how the entire Nosler product line is...not as an opinion...and for some reason you feel that you have every right to slam them anytime you want...You don't...and you were told not to...

I really suggest you go back to all of the threads you started about this and read what you posted...My recollections of it are based on exactly what you said...nothing more...and I can't help it if you don't like this fact...and I know it must hurt when you get tripped up by your own words..but don't blame me because you can't keep your stories straight...so ....until you learn how to...I would suggest not to post them...This isn't arrogance...nor is it whining...your the one doing that ...I am  merely telling it as it is...which is my right to do so...and that too is part of your problem......so...I'll offer your advise back to you...wither you like it or not...Get a Grip...Get a Life...and Get the Hell over it...and stop posting your nonsense as fact...when in fact it is only your biased opinion...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline corbanzo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #125 on: November 24, 2007, 07:06:06 PM »
Honestly gentlemen, tell us how you REALLY feel.  ;D ;D
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline corbanzo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2405
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #126 on: November 24, 2007, 07:07:52 PM »
I do have to say about nosler... you can't knock the partition...  no matter what or where you hunt...

I'll let you knock the bt though... haha
"At least with a gun that big, if you miss and hit the rocks in front of him it'll stone him to death..."

Offline NONYA

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2223
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #127 on: November 24, 2007, 07:43:57 PM »
Bla bla bla Mac have at it,i dont have to convince anyone,i know what happened,you should go to work for Nosler you are alot more convinced about their quality than the rep that I talked to,he even admitted they had a "hicup" in their bonding process on some the early Accubonds that caused the exact kind of failure I documented with the combined tech.Wouldnt hesitate to use the partitions if the Tsx wernt in the same price range,shot them for years before i decided the new Nosler bullets should be as well built,WRONG!I have the right to and i will contnue to slam the Nosler Bts,accubonds and CTs every chance I get,you gonna stop me?NO!
If it aint fair chase its FOUL,and illegal in my state!
http://www.freewebs.com/lifealongthedge/index.htm

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #128 on: November 25, 2007, 05:00:15 AM »
Bla bla bla Mac have at it,i dont have to convince anyone,i know what happened,you should go to work for Nosler you are alot more convinced about their quality than the rep that I talked to,he even admitted they had a "hicup" in their bonding process on some the early Accubonds that caused the exact kind of failure I documented with the combined tech.Wouldnt hesitate to use the partitions if the Tsx wernt in the same price range,shot them for years before i decided the new Nosler bullets should be as well built,WRONG!I have the right to and i will contnue to slam the Nosler Bts,accubonds and CTs every chance I get,you gonna stop me?NO!

Again...misconstrued BS...reported as facts... Anyone can call the company and ask them if what you said is true...I did...and what I was told was...this so-called hicup was found during DEV ELOPEMENT of the Accubonds...long before they went into production or even offered for sale...They found they had to remove oxygen & nitrogen bubbles from the lead...to be able to have the jackets 100% bonded to the lead...and they developed & got a patent for the process of doing so...So...like I said...Get a Grip...Get a Life...and Get The Hell OVER IT...

PS...I don't work for them...and never have...but I have used their bullets successfully for many many years...If you have the reps name post it...I am quite sure the company would love to have them explain this to them...

Quote
!I have the right to and i will contnue to slam the Nosler Bts,accubonds and CTs every chance I get,you gonna stop me?NO!

It won't be me Nonya...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline rickt300

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #129 on: November 25, 2007, 06:04:57 AM »
What a strange way for a discussion to end. I decided against playing with the 7MM RM to fill my doe tags, I'll just go ahead and use the 95 gr. BT's as planned in my 6MM Remington and I bet they will work just fine. Children, children.
I have been identified as Anti-Federalist, I prefer Advocate for Anarchy.

Offline Cheesehead

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3282
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #130 on: November 25, 2007, 06:22:09 AM »
Minutes ago my brother hangs another deer in my garage shot with a 300 WM and a 180 grain ballistic tip. A half inch entry wound, then through the neck bone and a 4" exit wound. No tracking, no suffering animal, no problems.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #131 on: November 25, 2007, 06:29:19 AM »
OK, I think both sides have had enough say.  The thread is turning personal and therefore I’m going to exercise my authority as Moderator and lock it down.

There is probably good reason for the disagreement – even companies like Winchester, who loads both CT and AccuBond CT, classify each differently depending on caliber and velocity.  For example, a 180g CT from a .30-06 is a CXP2 load (“Rapid, controlled expansion. Penetrates thin skin, light muscle and bone.”) while the same bullet in a .300 Win Mag is rated as a CXP3 load (“Delayed, controlled expansion.  Deep penetration through thick, tough skin, heavy muscle tissue & bone.”).  Notably, while Winchester offers CXP3 loads for the .270WSM, 7mm Rem Mag, .308 Win and .30-06, the CT is not used in any of those loads.   Federal offers Class 2 (“Medium game”, including “antelope, mule deer, white-tail deer and black bear”) as well as Class 3 (“Large, Heavy game”  including (elk, moose and brown bear”).  Federal does not offer a BT in any load they classify as Class 3.   Nosler does not classify their ammunition by usage but does call their BT a “deer” bullet.

I think a few conclusions can be made regarding the BT’s:

1.  BT’s are a cup and core bullet.  On the scale of bullet technology they are on the low end.  In spite of any improvements in manufacturing precision, a sleek profile and their polycarbonate tip, they are little changed from cup-and-core bullets designed over 100 years ago - and can be expected to perform accordingly.

2.  BT’s are designed for “Maximum Impact Velocity: 3000 fps” per Nosler.  Contrast that to the maximum velocity rating of “unlimited” for the Nosler Partition.   Many folks, even some of those who are BT proponents, are only comfortable with BT’s at significantly lower impact velocities and even Nosler recognizes that for high impact velocities there are better bullets available.

3.  In general, neither Winchester and Federal feel the BT is the best choice for large game and tend to  recommend the AccuBond, Partition and other bullets instead. (Winchester offers a variety of CXP3 loads starting with the .270WSM, but the first BT offering is the 180g BT for the .300 WM/WSM.  Federal starts listing Class 3 loads with the 7mm RM but doesn’t use BT’s in any Class 3 load, regardless of caliber or cartridge.)

4.  You can’t beat physics and there is a reason Nosler makes AccuBond, Partition and E-Tip bullets.  People that desire high weight retention and deep penetration under a wide variety of situations are probably better served by a bullet designed to expand more slowly, limit expansion more positively and retain more weight than a BT.

5.  Every situation is different and people can be expected to have different results.  Some people have had good results with the BT’s others have not.  Choose a bullet designed to work in both best and worst case scenarios and you will probably not be disappointed.  Ignore the worst case scenarios and disappointment is much more likely.


Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Online Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26945
  • Gender: Male
Re: The Oustanding Ballistic Tip!
« Reply #132 on: November 25, 2007, 01:02:01 PM »
Quote
I have the right to and i will contnue to slam the Nosler Bts,accubonds and CTs every chance I get,you gonna stop me? NO!

No really you DO NOT! You may speak to problems that happened specifically but you MAY NOT out right condemn a manufacturer's products across the board just because you say you've had a bad result from them. Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of hunters use those same bullets with total satisfaction each and every hunting season. That you cannot speaks volumes to me about your understanding of the proper use of them. To say all Nosler bullets are bad is just plain BS of the worst order.

I respect Nosler PTs perhaps above all others for use on game large and small. I've never had a bad result on game from use of a BT either and I've used a LOT of them on game. But I don't push them from magnum rifles to insane velocity and then use light for caliber bullets to shoot game up close. Instead I use heavy for caliber bullets and in non magnum chamberings and then don't worry about how close or far I am. They work beautifully and have for me every time so far.

So speak to specific results you had with a single bullet all you want but end the rant against Nosler in general. Your inappropriate use of the bullet doesn't constitute proof that their entire product line is bad as you seem to want the world to believe. Who at Nosler pissed in your cereal to make you so mad at them?


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!