Author Topic: Buffalo Classic field performance question (Read 2739 times)

Scibaer · « **on:** November 06, 2007, 08:48:48 AM »

How does the BC 45-70 with factory ammo perform on whitetail. say compair that to a 35whelen. i have a whelen now, and a few people have mentioned that its too much for whitetails , and what i really wanted was 45-70 anyhow, so i may be looking to trade, but i would like to know if the 45-70 is more gun , equal or less gun then the whelen.
what this comes down to, is after rifle season, i may offer up my whelen, and look for a 45-70 in the 32" barrel
glenn

henry1 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 06, 2007, 09:17:34 AM »

Well i have no experiance with the 45/70s performance on WT but.... I did shoot a nice 5X0 mulie buck one year with it.(it had 5 on one side and the other one musta broke off when he was in velvet.) and it put him down like no tomorow!

he looked like he got hit by a bulldozer! a real bang flop. I dont remember what powder i was using but it was a 350gr horn RN for a bullet. I shoot deer all the time with the 7MM Mag and that puts em down right quick too! but its not a handi. Anyways, just figured id put my .02$ in the pot.
Hank

44 Man · « **Reply #2 on:** November 06, 2007, 09:23:39 AM »

Tough question. Let me say this first. The 45-70 will just flatten a white tale. Especially with the factory 350 gr hollowpoint. Your Whelen will also, but in a different manner. I guess the best answer to that is to ask anyone with a 45-70 if they like it. Most of them absolutely love it and if they would ever have to go to one rifle, the 45-70 would be it. That says a lot. I can think of few other calibers that instill that kind of passion. 44 Man
\

Scibaer · « **Reply #3 on:** November 06, 2007, 09:44:12 AM »

henry1, its that " it looked like it got hit by a bulldozer" i wonder about. my neighbor shot a descent sized buck with his 35whelen in a ruger no.3 ( i think ) and it was a bloodbath, ruined a fair amount of meat.. i'd like to avoid that. i'd like to know if the 45-70 will have the same effect.

44man, yeah i know its a tough one, personal opinion and whatnot, but i though i'd ask, see what type of answers i get.
nice looking rifle, by the way.
glenn

bishopgrandpa · « **Reply #4 on:** November 06, 2007, 09:55:02 AM »

Load the 45-70 according to your particular need with jacketed or cast. I use my own cast and the meat wasted is very minimal. "Eat right up to the hole". You'll find more factory loads for the 45-70 than any other caliber from slow to fast and light to heavy in jacketed or cast. Have fun (you will) and enjoy the hunt and the meat.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** November 06, 2007, 10:03:20 AM »

I haven't hunted with any of my 45-70s yet, nor have I killed anything with either the 45-70 or the 35 Whelen. But, I'll share a couple points I've learned from one of those that has hunted with the BC...the long barrel isn't user friendly in a lot of woods hunting areas, Big Blue cut his to 27" which made it much nicer to carry both due to the shorter length and better balance. For longer shots, the Whelen would have a definite advantage, particularly with factory ammo, although using the warmer loads from Buffalo Bore or CPC would lessen the difference between them.

The BC's 32" barrel can provide about 150-200fps velocity advantage over the 22" barrel with the right powder tho, H335 and IMR4198 with 350gr bullets were the two that I did some testing with that did so for me.

Another member, Joel, was shooting 45-70 300gr handloads at 2200fps and wasn't happy with the meat loss, although he killed a lot of deer with them, so he switched to 400gr bullets and was much happier.

Tim

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R35WH1*R35WH3*R4570L*R4570G

http://www.cpcartridge.com/45-70marlin-B.htm

http://www.cpcartridge.com/35whelen-B.htm

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,103494.msg1098285249.html#msg1098285249

JerryKo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 06, 2007, 10:42:26 AM »

Didn't use a handi, but it was a 45/70 at under a hundred yards on a doe. Using a 405 gr lead flat nose Laser Cast at 1400fps. I double lunged it high, no heart and it landed on its side and kicked a few times. There was a neat hole one each side of her. Little tissue damage, but it did the job. It was a mature doe. Maybe it was luck, but the only other times I've had um go down like that were with 54cal flintlocks at close range. Hope this helps.

JerryKo

Graybeard · « **Reply #7 on:** November 06, 2007, 10:46:56 AM »

I've shot only one deer with a .45-70 and put the bullet in the lungs as I generally always do with any gun. The buck ran about 50-75 yards and piled up dead. It did no more or less damage to the lungs than any other round I've killed them with using a similar shot placement.

Your Whelen will have more range capability but neither will kill game any more or less dead than the other. You tear up and lose meat ONLY if you misplace the shot. A shot in the lungs ruins no meat that most of us at least wold eat anyway. Some I guess eat the ribs but most don't. I didn't notice any particular large amount of bloodshot area to the ribs on either side.

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #8 on:** November 06, 2007, 10:59:41 AM »

I shoot behind the shoulder,and the only deer I've shot with my 45 70 ran 81 steps before going down. The shot was a 79 yd. shot,and he left a great blood trail.I stepped the blood trail off as I trailed him is how I came up with the 81 yds. I've shot 3 hogs behind the shoulder also,and they were no knock downs also. If your shots may exceed 150 yds.,I'd go with the 35 Whelan. Digger

OHHJIMMY · « **Reply #9 on:** November 06, 2007, 12:09:49 PM »

The distance of your average shot would be the deciding factor for me. Sure, the 45-70 will kill a deer way out yonder, but you'll have to take a range finder with you and know how much it drops at over 100-150 yds. I have killed a number of deer with a 45-70 and the meat damage is not bad at all if you shoot behind the shoulder. You don't get that huge black jelly area like you get with a fast moving bullet. If you handload, you might be able to download a little and get good results with the Whelen.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 06, 2007, 12:55:12 PM »

I've shot a wild hog with a 400 grain speer with my handi and it was very destructive. I think bullet choice has as much to do with bullet design as much as diameter.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 06, 2007, 01:09:37 PM »

Trade offers need to be done by PM since this isn't a classified forum.

Tim

Big Blue · « **Reply #12 on:** November 06, 2007, 01:51:49 PM »

Tim,
I thought I heard my name mentioned! LOL Here's a photo of the BC with the barrel cut down to 27", a Hi-Viz recoil pad and 3X Leupold scope. The cartridges are 400gr. Barnes X.
Don

45/70fan · « **Reply #13 on:** November 06, 2007, 01:52:42 PM »

I've shot 4 deer with 300gr hp handloads at 2000fps and they were all bang, flop. One was about 50 yards, two around 100 yards, and one a tad over 200 yards. I've shot one with the Hornady LeverEvo bullet at a little over 100 yards with the same result. I got 2 with the factory Remington 405 and they ran less than 50 yards leaving a garden hose type blood trail. All were normal chest shots and no meat was ruined.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** November 06, 2007, 02:12:19 PM »

Thanks Don, glad ta see ya!!

Tim

henry1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 06, 2007, 03:56:30 PM »

When i say "it looked like it was run over by a bulldozer" i mean that it just nocked him on his rearend if ya know what i mean. There was way less meat damage then there is when the 7Mag hits em. tho, i have taken care of that by shooting em in the head. But as i recall, there was little to no damage at all to the meat. just like someone said before, practicaly, "eat right up to the hole"
Hank

Scibaer · « **Reply #16 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:31:31 AM »

Tim, if it comes to a sale or trade, i will make a post in the classified section, per GBO rules, all GBO and FFL rules will be followed.
glenn

Scibaer · « **Reply #17 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:48:18 AM »

Well thanks guys, thata the type of input i was looking for here. it sounds like a close call. a good clean shot, dead is dead no matter the round. i guess its just a matter of how i end up liking the whelen this season. it sounds like i wont get the range of the whelen with the BC, but im not sure that matters, where i live and hunt, 100 yard shots are about it anyhow.
and it sounds like the BC has more room for adjustment, load wise and thats good to be able to adjust the loads. i know that in my area, i have 1 option for ammo with the whelen..
maybe that alone is enough of a reason to change up...
i have to say, im suprised by all the BC owner who dont hunt with it though..me personall, when i get a new gun, i cant wait to take game with it and "prove" it, see what it does, how it handles in the woods and the like.. my .243 and whelen have yet to see the woods, and getting them out there is almost as important than the gun season itself..
i'll let you's know after deer season ends here..
glenn

Fred M · « **Reply #18 on:** November 07, 2007, 09:28:51 AM »

As the name implys BC Buffalo classic, that is what it is for not for whitetails.
You need two rifles one for Buffalo and one for WT deer, and for the deer
you need no35 Whelen either. The deer do not wear body armor.

Besides who needs a bruised shoulder shooting a BC or a 35 Whelen.
Implanting 15lbs of lead into a rifle to make more comfortable to shoot is not
a good way either, it destroys the dynamic properties of the rifle.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 07, 2007, 09:38:34 AM »

Yeahbut, it's not what we "need", but what we "want" to use.

Tim

linwin3000 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 07, 2007, 11:05:16 AM »

I was taking a stand just off a large clearing here in the Blue's when a very nice 5 point Elk bull walked out into the clearing with his gead down browsing! His mistake! The 400 grain Speer entered his lungs and plowed out the other side, he went down, struggled to get up, and went down again. By the time I reached him(125 yards) he was done. He was large, about 700 lbs, and very good eating! I've been shooting 45-70 for about 35 years and this load(52 gr. IMR3031-400 gr. jacketed) really nails them. Hard on the shoulder though. My BC is not a great carrying rifle(the stand) but is a very satisfying rifle to shoot and own.
Richard

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #21 on:** November 07, 2007, 11:33:44 AM »

I have both the .45-70 in a Marlin and a .35 Whelen in a Mauser action. The 45-70 kicks me like a mule with 300 gr 325 gr and 400 gr. All kick hard. I have a friend who shot a deer with a .45-70 just behind the rib cage near the backbone, blew the deer completely in two. My .35 has more of a shove than a kick, longer effective range. I think the amount of damage has two factors, bullet type and weight, and shot placement. Through the lungs, both would work equally as well. A 200 grain .35 would in my opinion be more than adequate for deer, and a 300 grain in 45-70. The .35 Whelen has a 250-300 yard effective range with factory ammo. The 45-70 has 150-200 yard effective range with Hornady Leverevolution ammo. Hope this helps. What kind of .35 Whelen do you have?

Scibaer · « **Reply #22 on:** November 07, 2007, 12:17:36 PM »

fred, you are ofcourse right. the BC and the whelen are more then anyone needs for whitetails.
thanks for reminded me not to "overgun"
i could get the same look i'm after by getting the 38-55.. how does/would that preform on whitetails and whats the ammo availiabity like ?

Scibaer · « **Reply #23 on:** November 07, 2007, 12:28:49 PM »

dixie dude,
i have the 35whelen in a handi rifle , 22 inch tapered barrel, no rifle sight, monte carlo stock, schnable forend, 3x9 simmons scope with burris z-rings.
i set the zero for 1 inch high at 100 yards with the remingtion 200gr. pointed soft point , factory ammo. for it, it dont kick or shove at all, im a big guy and can handle just about any recoil. i just have this itch for the BC..

MSP Ret · « **Reply #24 on:** November 07, 2007, 12:32:31 PM »

Do what I did, I have each of them in a Handi and enjoy them both....<><....

Scibaer · « **Reply #25 on:** November 07, 2007, 12:42:22 PM »

i have 6 handi's now
i am married with 6 kids
i own a HD ultra classic and a offroad jeep

im pushing mama's limits

McLernon · « **Reply #26 on:** November 07, 2007, 01:01:19 PM »

A double lung shot means a dead deer whether or not it is knocked down by the shot.

Mc

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #27 on:** November 07, 2007, 01:14:35 PM »

I have 16 long guns and 3 pistols, and am now pushing mama's limits. She wants to save money for early retirement. I do want about 5-6 more rifles and 2-3 more pistols before I retire though. If you can muster it, try to have both. Get a second job for awhile or something, for gun and ammo money.

Scibaer · « **Reply #28 on:** November 07, 2007, 03:31:08 PM »

Mc, your right a lung shot is meat on the table.

Dixie, i work and go to school full time, mama said get a second when i brought home the HD, i didnt do that and had to sell my other bike to make that adjustment.
before i buy anymore guns i have to sell something i can feel ok letting go of , im comfortable with that..
an honestly, i dont need alot of guns , just one of each kind i need for hunting, big and little rifle, big and little shotgun, ML and rim fires.. so that 7 or 8 tops..
glenn

Scibaer · « **Reply #29 on:** November 08, 2007, 02:22:47 AM »

i love the whelen, shoots great, no kick and lots of power, but when i purchased it, i really wanted a 45-70. i have this itch for a 45-70 in BC that i cant shake, maybe its the longer barrel. i have looked at alot of pic that you guys have posted, and every time i think wow what a rifle. i photochopped a 45-70 BC up from the NE site. this is my goal to have a 45-70 that sits like this..