Author Topic: Hornady is coming out with a new round!!!!!!!! (Read 2272 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** November 09, 2007, 11:33:08 AM »

Hornady is coming out with a new round. It is the 6.5 Creedmoor. Looks interesting to me. What do you guy's think. Dale http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=763 http://accurateshooter.wordpress.com/2007/11/07/hornady-introduces-new-65-creedmoor-cartridge/

30-06man · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2007, 11:57:27 AM »

looks neat. maybe for the long range hunters. or a flop

R.W.Dale · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2007, 01:27:15 PM »

This is even more useless than the 30T/C or that new 308marlin/307win

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2007, 01:44:44 PM »

I have to agree the 308 Marlin does nothing the regular 308 doesn't as for the other two you mentioned I know nothing about them. I still think this one may turn out to be a pretty decent round. I wonder what rifle companys are going to chamber it and put it on the market? Do any of you know? Dale

jvs · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:17:28 PM »

Here are the Ballistics for the 6.5mm Remington Magnum. I can assure you that the .264 Winchester Magnum is comparable to the Rem Mag, maybe superior.

Range 100 yds. 200 yds. 300 yds. 400 yds. 500 yds. +
+ 1.5 0 6.5 19.0 38.2
ft/lb 2252 1960 1700 1467 1260

While I am glad that someone is at least trying to come out with something new, as a Hunter I see this round as nothing that hasn't been done before, probably with a little less recoil and barrel erosion.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:32:17 PM »

All 6.5mm's are interesting to me.

Cheese

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2007, 05:38:02 PM »

Appears to be a .260 Remington with the shoulder angle changed and case shortened by 0.010" yup that really should set the world on fire no doubt about it.

warf73 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2007, 05:42:02 PM »

Sounds to me its supposed to be a competition round for long range matches.

Quote

Dave and Dennis wanted to provide factory-loaded ammo that would be 100% competitive with any High Power chambering, including the 6XC and 6.5×47 Lapua. The 6.5 Creedmoor was purpose-built for match rifles, including the Tubb 2000 and DPMS/Panther Arms LR Series. Its case is shorter than the 260 Remington, so you can load even the longest bullets into .308-Win length magazines. Pushing a 120gr Amax at 3000+ fps, the 6.5 Creedmoor offers a nice, flat trajectory plus good wind-bucking ability. Dennis Demille has used the prototype cartridge for many months now in a Tubb 2000 rifle. He says, the load is “moderate and very reliable. There have been no issues with stiff bolt lift or primer cratering.” The factory ammo runs “under 60,000 psi” according to Emary, and uses Hodgdon H4350 powder–43.5 grains with the 120 Amax and 41.2 grains with the 140 Amax.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2007, 05:45:17 PM »

Quote from: jvs on November 09, 2007, 03:17:28 PM

Here are the Ballistics for the 6.5mm Remington Magnum. I can assure you that the .264 Winchester Magnum is comparable to the Rem Mag, maybe superior.

Range 100 yds. 200 yds. 300 yds. 400 yds. 500 yds. +
+ 1.5 0 6.5 19.0 38.2
ft/lb 2252 1960 1700 1467 1260

While I am glad that someone is at least trying to come out with something new, as a Hunter I see this round as nothing that hasn't been done before, probably with a little less recoil and barrel erosion.

So what is your point? I really just said Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!! here is a new round. The 243 shoots better on paper to a point. Dale

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2007, 06:12:56 PM »

Ok you will have to provide what grain bullets you showed in your graf. We are really dealing with nickles and dimes here. Dale

jvs · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2007, 11:15:41 PM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on November 09, 2007, 06:12:56 PM

Ok you will have to provide what grain bullets you showed in your graf. We are really dealing with nickles and dimes here. Dale

I didn't just fall off a Turnip Truck. When I first read the link, the ballistics looked a little familiar. I used the same bullet as the link did, and I could have posted results for both lighter and heavier bullets out to 1,000 yds in Hornady AND others. I recently went through all of this before I bought my 6.5 Rem Mag last year.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is nothing new Ballistically. Any comparison in the link from the rags is to a .260 is casing and overall length and angle of the shoulder. As a 6.5mm is .264 no matter which way you look at it and the .264 Win Mag and the 6.5mm Rem Mag are both superior to this round in both velocity and trajectory. So for hunting purposes, this caliber is already covered unless you need something for the middle ground.

It looks to me that they are trying to come up with another shorter-single shot round for Competition Shooters, just as the article said, with POSSIBLY a crossover to Hunting.

It may eventually compete with the 6mm PPC from the Bench which is a whole different and usually profitable market, but I don't see a real demand as yet as a hunting caliber, although at a suggested MSRP of $22 a box it is MUCH cheaper to shoot than the Mags. But a caliber with no rifle production, except Custom Made (like the PPC), I am not surprised.

IF this round is easier on the Baby-Boomers shoulders and causes less throat erosion (as posted) it becomes an easier sell, other than that it is old and slower news for the hunter, and holds no more promise or performance for the .264's than the exotic Marlin Express does for the 30 calibers.

It does show that Hornady is willing to take the necessary chances on hitting it big, which is admirable. It might work in a very limited market (just like the .308 M/E). There isn't much of that going around today for the serious shooter.

I would like to see one at the range when the BR's are there so I can see it at work and ask questions, but I am not about to scurry out and have a Creedmoor built.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2007, 03:42:44 AM »

YAWN----just the .260 Rem in new clothes.

Notice in their comparison chart they didn't compare directly to the .260 and compared to the .308 instead.

FLOP!!!!!!

IOWA DON · « **Reply #12 on:** November 10, 2007, 04:15:14 AM »

Did anyone notice the information in small letters? The ballistics were for a 28-inch test barrel. Let's see, why would a hunter think a short action is important and then go with a 28-inch barrel? What velocity could one get with other 6.5 MM cartridges with a 28-inch barrel?

jvs · « **Reply #13 on:** November 10, 2007, 04:43:33 AM »

I don't think I would call it a 'flop' this early in the game. From my understanding of the Elite group of people who consider themselves Bench Rest Shooters, this caliber may get a limited and short term following. If the BR's all have one thing in common, it is trying new fangled stuff and finding out if it works. If it doesn't, they have no bones about writing a letter explaining why it doesn't. If it does work, then Hornady and Mr. Creedmoor hits the Long Ball. Obviously, it is worth the gamble.

I know alot of people who dabble in guns in one form or another, and the Elitists are the only ones at this point who I think may try it. I know I have neither the time nor the money to get involved in the Creedmoor. (which may basically tell you who BR's are and who may buy the caliber)

Graybeard · « **Reply #14 on:** November 10, 2007, 04:59:29 AM »

I don't think it will be viable in bench rest competition as it has way too much case capacity. Long range target shooting or maybe even silhouette shooting NOT benchrest is what they are aiming for. The .22 and 6mm PPC rule the roost in Benchrest and will continue to do so for a long long time.

jvs · « **Reply #15 on:** November 10, 2007, 05:51:20 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on November 10, 2007, 04:59:29 AM

I don't think it will be viable in bench rest competition as it has way too much case capacity. Long range target shooting or maybe even silhouette shooting NOT benchrest is what they are aiming for. The .22 and 6mm PPC rule the roost in Benchrest and will continue to do so for a long long time.

You are probably right, case capacity is right up there with the mags(which has me puzzled about the 'throat erosion' claim). And since I personally have no experience in either competition target shooting or silhouette shooting, and have somewhat limited knowledge of BR shooting (except when I hang around during meets-asking dumb questions), this round is not something I am interested in at this time......

Unless I happen to hit tonights Powerball.

Then it will be a completely different story.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #16 on:** November 10, 2007, 06:36:49 AM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on November 09, 2007, 01:44:44 PM

I have to agree the 308 Marlin does nothing the regular 308 doesn't as for the other two you mentioned I know nothing about them.

Other than one important thing - it comes chambered in a Marlin, something you are not going to see with a .308 Win and it's 52,000 CUP SAMMI pressure standard. The .308 Marlin has a lower SAAMI pressure.

Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2007, 06:48:42 AM »

You guys that are grousing about the 6.5 Creedmore because the mags offer better ballistics or the .260 offers more case capacity are missing the point.

The 6.5 Creedmore is a cartridge designed with one purpose in mind - competition. Its not designed to offer maximum velocity, nor is it designed for hunting. Its designed to allow long bullets to be seated further out of the case while maintaining the same maximum COL as a .308 Win - making it useful in the magazines of AR-type rifles.

This is definitely not a cartridge I will be buying a rifle for but I'm not going to be grousing about it either. Cripes - do you fellas bitch about cars coming in new colors every year too?

IRA51 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 10, 2007, 08:22:41 AM »

Got to agree with Greybeard,the 6 PPC is going to be hard to beat in bench rest. I'm a real big 6.5x55 fan and see no reason to get excited about a New 6.5.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #19 on:** November 10, 2007, 09:41:20 AM »

It is all about what CH said,,,"COL"...

Cheese

The Sodbuster · « **Reply #20 on:** November 11, 2007, 06:21:58 AM »

All in all, I think more choices is better than fewer. When the .270 Win came out, I'm sure there were plenty who felt it failed to offer any advantage over the '06 and was a wasted effort.

Zachary · « **Reply #21 on:** November 11, 2007, 09:09:41 AM »

I think that Hornady has come up with a clever plan, and it might have nothing (or little) to do with benchrest shooting.

While the 6.5mm caliber has great acceptance in Europe, it is not popular here in the States. I particularly love the .260 Remington, and am surprised why it is not much more popular. And, ammo and gun makers are essentially running out of new calibers to convince us are "needed" in our arsenal. So, as for the 6.5mm, given that it is not that popular in the US, how can an ammo maker ultimately make it popular in the long term?

Let's think about it for a moment. The Benchest crowd is a unique crowd indeed. Specifically, and in part, Benchrest shooters normally do not buy factory loaded ammo. Instead, they are a meticulous bunch and usually handload by measuring each spec of grain - lol. As such, why in the world would Hornady create an alleged factory loaded "benchrest" round?

I'll tell you why I think why. I think that Hornady is probably creating a unique (if not risky) strategy. Notice that Hornady is not loading their new 6.5 with any hunting bullets.....YET. That might be because Hornady wants to creat a rep for this round as a benchrest round, and then market it to hunters (who generally are accuracy freaks.) You see, so many new "hunting cartridges" fail, or at most are marginally successful. As such, it appears that, rather than directly introducing a new "hunting" cartridge, Hornady just may be doing this indirectly by first introducing a "benchrest" cartridge.

Now, if I am correct (and we will likely never know the answer to this question), will this work? Honestly, and unfortunately for the caliber, I don't think so.

Zachary

Graybeard · « **Reply #22 on:** November 11, 2007, 09:14:22 AM »

Again I say I do NOT think the benchrest crowd is what Hornady is after. That crowd doesn't want or need more powder capacity or a longer over all cartridge length.

What they are after is the long range target crowd who shoots at 1000 yards mostly as they have pretty much settled on the 6.5mm bore for that and they are hoping to cash in on it. I think it's a marketing mistake personally. Pretty much 100% of those guys use custom built rifles with tight necks and have already long ago settled on the round they want to use.

Guy Pike · « **Reply #23 on:** November 11, 2007, 09:42:52 AM »

Winchester modified the PPC family of cartridges enough to avoid patent infringement and marketed the WSSM's as accurate hunting rounds. If Hornady can modify the 6.5 Swede and actually sell enough to make money then I guess the public deserves the round.

jvs · « **Reply #24 on:** November 11, 2007, 10:02:22 AM »

Besides BR competitions in my area, which normally use 6mm PPC, I know of a few competitions that don't use 6mm PPC. Other BR competitions are also caliber specific, like .223, .308, .30-06 and .50 BMG, and not all of them are Custom guns. Some are off the rack with factory ammo. One story floating around last year was of a Savage .223 taken from the rack, with a new scope, mounts and rings to a competition and winning by a wide margin.

I know that quite a few New Yorkers came to this area to buy Custom single-shot .50 BMG rifles for 1,000 yd competitions on Long Island, NY.

So it isn't too far fetched to think that a group could form around the use of the Creedmoor and travel around for competitions. Whether the Creedmoor could cross over to hunting is anyones guess, since the major manufacturers had problems selling the exotic calibers they already produced.

I don't think Hornady would go through the expense of making a new round if they didn't think that a few hundred customers will eventually buy it for their new competition rifles. Only Hornady and Mr. Creedmoor will know the outcome of this unless it crosses over.

jnclement · « **Reply #25 on:** November 11, 2007, 01:37:18 PM »

I think I'll stick with that other new cartridge developed for competition.........6.5x47 Lapua. Although Lapua really missed out by not marketing that Creedmoor name.

Graybeard · « **Reply #26 on:** November 11, 2007, 01:40:37 PM »

Perhaps I've just become jadded but I just can't seem to get enthused over any of the many new rounds offered each year. In my life I just don't see any big voids that need to be filled by new rounds that are not already fully covered by existing rounds.

About the only thing that might get me interested enough to go for it would be a resurrection of the old 5MM Remington or another new version of a 5mm rimfire with about those ballistics.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #27 on:** November 11, 2007, 01:45:10 PM »

GB this might peak your interest then. Dale http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,130160.0.html

billy_56081 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 11, 2007, 02:52:57 PM »

New calibers, new calibers. Take a look at a 7x57 mauser or a 6.5x55 swede and see what a "modern" new fangled cartridge looks like. Can you see the difference? Heck no! Some day they are going to come out with a "new cartridge". But all that have came out lately are just reshaping an old standby.

Graybeard · « **Reply #29 on:** November 11, 2007, 06:32:00 PM »

Now why in the world would that peak my interest? I said a RIMFIRE with performance similar to the old Remington 5MM round. I don't do short and fat cartridges reminds me too much of me.