Author Topic: When and if!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Read 1473 times)

DalesCarpentry · « **on:** November 10, 2007, 04:20:46 PM »

The United States is growing in population at a crazy rate. At what time do you think we can no longer feed our country because of the population? I have said for 20 years that SS would fail and the old would be on their own. I have also said for the past 5 years there would only be one race some day. With all the inter breeding it only makes sense that some day we will only be one race. That is not necessarily a bad thing. The race issues would be thrown out the window and maybe people would get along better. I don't really agree with it though. I kind of think you should stay with in your race. I think that there are good and bad people of all races. I have had bad and good experiences with most races. Everyone has a right to live as they feel no matter of race or sexual orientation. But back to the the original post. At what point can we continue to feed our country? Do you think there will be a day when we can't feed our people because of the vast population? Do you think we will be able to run cars off water. They have been talking of running cars off hydrogen for years. I believe it could happen. I would think the government would dump Billions into such a project to free ourselves from foreign oil. Dale

jh45gun · « **Reply #1 on:** November 10, 2007, 04:43:37 PM »

Those that live in a rual area will not have a problem feeding themselves if they are self reliant. Those that depend on others for their food will have a problem.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #2 on:** November 10, 2007, 05:03:15 PM »

Someday there may not be rural areas. Cities are growing outward every day. Dale

jh45gun · « **Reply #3 on:** November 10, 2007, 05:34:56 PM »

Got a feeling that most of us will never see that day when or if it comes to that. We will be long gone. AND no I sm not talking about 2012 either.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2007, 07:25:52 PM »

....nope, ain't going to happen. Think about all the food we export... Think of all the money farmers are getting for NOT planting crops... Now about that "staying in your own race" stuff....

Jim

oldandslow · « **Reply #5 on:** November 11, 2007, 03:01:33 AM »

Come on out here in the Southwest Dale. We have a LOT of rural area. Don't have a lot of water though.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #6 on:** November 11, 2007, 05:47:29 AM »

As appealing as the idea sounds, you can scrub the one race idea as being the end of social problems. If you want to see bigotry in action, go to Africa. Hell, go to Ireland. The people all look alike so they dream up religious differences to kill each other over.
And folks refuse to face the very basic problem that is driving all of our other problems. TOO MANY PEOPLE. Reduce the world population and the problems go away. Yet the same folks that are marching against global warming are also online against abortions and against population controls and so forth. Countries that have over run their capacity to support themselves, if they ever could, are feed and doctored so they can grow more healthy babies to get on the international welfare gravy train.
As harsh as it sounds, I think America needs to start taking care of America. We are so grossly in debt to China, among others, that I don't know if we can get out of debt but we still think we should be Uncle Sugar to the world. I think it's time AT HOME and abroad, folks start taking care of themselves.

Chilachuck · « **Reply #7 on:** November 11, 2007, 07:07:15 AM »

Well, not always.

In the blogs and news groups I post in (obviously not under this nym, and I'd rather not connect any of them, thanks), the ones pushing global warming as a problem caused by humans also push abortion and population reduction, the ones against abortion usually doubt global warming is caused by humans.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #8 on:** November 11, 2007, 07:22:41 AM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on November 11, 2007, 05:47:29 AM

As appealing as the idea sounds, you can scrub the one race idea as being the end of social problems. If you want to see bigotry in action, go to Africa. Hell, go to Ireland. The people all look alike so they dream up religious differences to kill each other over.
And folks refuse to face the very basic problem that is driving all of our other problems. TOO MANY PEOPLE. Reduce the world population and the problems go away. Yet the same folks that are marching against global warming are also online against abortions and against population controls and so forth. Countries that have over run their capacity to support themselves, if they ever could, are feed and doctored so they can grow more healthy babies to get on the international welfare gravy train.
As harsh as it sounds, I think America needs to start taking care of America. We are so grossly in debt to China, among others, that I don't know if we can get out of debt but we still think we should be Uncle Sugar to the world. I think it's time AT HOME and abroad, folks start taking care of themselves.

I have to agree with you on we need to start taking care of our own. We also need to stop being the world police. We need to stop sticking our noses where they don't belong. Dale

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2007, 08:02:22 AM »

Another thing they say that by the year 3000 we will only be one race. They say we will be a coffee color people. Dale

tomzuki · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2007, 09:53:04 AM »

Dale,

You poor fellow! Here's a quick rundown on alternate energy......

Hydrogen from water- It's true that you can get Hydrogen from water. You must apply electricity to break the molecule of H2O to yield hydrogen. Unfortunately the electricity is more energy than the hydrogen collected and is a negative sum decrease for fuel. It turns out that PETROLEUM is the richest source of hydrogen because PETROLEUM is an endless molecule of HYDROGEN and Carbon atoms. Even the stupid tree huggers out here in Kalifornia wont admit this and are trying to screw the OIL COMPANIES from thier profit by promoting Hydrogen fuel cell technology.

Ethanol from Corn- Sorry but this is still a negative when considering all the fuel and fertilizer to grow the corn. Additionally the corn must be processed or refined into fuel and is extremely dirty with hydrocarbons (smog) and greenhouse CO2. Also the efficiency of ethanol in the internal combustion engine is not as good as gasoline, by about 15%. So if a gallon of gas would get you 25 miles down the road that same gallon of Ethanol will only get you about 21 miles. Again a negative sum over gasoline.

Solar- You could panel the globe and not have enough electricity to fuel the world. I once calculated using Photo cell panels for vehicle body parts, all sides and roof, and they wouldn't generate enough electricity to move the vehicle a few miles per hour. Too slow for comfort.

Wind generation/Tide generation- This started many decades ago as a tax dodge for the wealthy. I remember many years ago while driving along Palm Springs and laughing about the construction of the wind machines. For all this time these machines have been subsidized by the Federal govt. If you consider the last forty years of govt money going into the development of these they cost many more times to operate than they generate energy.

Nuclear- This is the only thing that makes sense except geo-thermal, but Geo is limited by availability. Nuclear power is generated by allowing water to be heated and boiled into steam. The steam turns a turbin and the turbin turns a generator. Now before everyone gets emotional about Nuclear the technology is safe beyond reason. Another thing the tree huggers dont understand is that Kalifornia gets about 20% of our energy this way with Diablo Power Plant, San Onofore Station, and imports from Palo Verde Power Plant in Western Arizona. Palo Verde is the largest Nuclear Power Plant in the country and gets its cooling water from wells in the desert. Further, France gets most if its power this way and profits from building power stations in foreign countries. They are even working on the "Candle Stick" theory whereby the rods are consumed like a candle while in service...Nothing to throw away-NO POLLUTION or left overs, NOT EVEN CO2 or any greenhouse gasses.

We could go back to horse and buggy, but I dont think we want to muck that many stalls in the barn. Although I do have some buggy whip stock along with my Smith-Corona type writter ribbon stocks!!!!!!!!!

P.S. NO DIS-RESPECT INTENDED WHAT SO EVER>>>>As far as your comments about ethnicity, I'll leave it up to the kids to figure out. Whatever they decide is fine by me.

nomosendero · « **Reply #11 on:** November 16, 2007, 02:18:27 PM »

Quote from: DALESCARPENTRY on November 10, 2007, 05:03:15 PM

Someday there may not be rural areas. Cities are growing outward every day. Dale

Been to WY, MT, SD, ND, & other fly over states lately?

gypsyman · « **Reply #12 on:** November 17, 2007, 03:29:39 PM »

Dale, not sure if you remember this. In the late '80's, after the Soviet Union fell apart, they went thru some pretty rough times. I remember watching the news one night, and there was a story of a man that had killed his next door neighbor, with a steel pipe, over a sack of potato's. His neighbor was trying to steal the potato's. The Russian police, DID NOT, arrest him, as he explained that the potato's and one chicken he killed once a week, was all he had to feed his wife and 2 children.
I personally witnessed 2 guys in a fist fight, in 1974 during the gas crunch, fighting over who was going to get their car to the gas pump to fill up. What with gas and energy price's going up, which also means food price's go up. Milk has gone up over a $1 a gallon around here in the last year, as more corn is being used for ethanol, instead of feeding the cows. Our country is importing more food now than ever. Just look at the labels on some of the fruits and vegetable's at the supermarket.
Over the years, I've read and heard stories about how animal species have gone thru die offs due to over population. Disease, starvation. Unfortunately, I don't think the human race is as smart as we think we are, as I believe we are setting ourselves up for exactly the same thing. Hope that didn't ruin your day!! gypsyman

FourBee · « **Reply #13 on:** November 17, 2007, 03:43:39 PM »

Dale's quote: "Do you think there will be a day when we can't feed our people because of the vast population? "

A famine will happen, but not because of population explosion, but of war and pestilence. When? It may be sooner than we think.

Chilachuck · « **Reply #14 on:** November 18, 2007, 09:12:35 AM »

Most famines these days are caused by politics (or religion) preventing food from moving into an area where it is needed (Ethiopia and Somalia), corrupt politicians bankrupting locals so they cannot afford even basic food, or economic factors like land owners getting more for selling avocados to France than for growing food for local Biafrans. Or for selling wheat and barley in England than feeding local Irishmen.

It's not a population problem, and will not be for many decades.

henry1 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 18, 2007, 06:10:38 PM »

I will try to refrain from writing a book here but "we" as in "us here on this site" will not die from starvation, eventualy i think that that could be a problem, then the next one to come after food is water. Eventualy it will come down to survival of the fittest if you know what i mean, dont let me step on your toes with this one but i think that global warming is bunch of hype. Our records show that during the 1850's the earth had a mini ice age. of course thats long gone but the earth is slowly recovering from that and now its time for it to warm back up again, i am sure that we will have other iceages big and small, just not in our lifetime. I also would like something to be done about population but the only way that that can happen is from food/water shortage, or war. people will always have sex and no matter how safe you try to be eventualy you have pressed safteys luck one to many times and then you have another number to account for. i dont like talking bout this stuff cause it makes me sad. Someday i will have kids and i want them to have what i was able to have. but i dont want them to get to see what the world will be like when they turn old enough for stuff like this to make sence. Humans like to have children because its fun, its another interaction that is as close as one can be to another, people also like to make children, cause its another recreation (for some) due to these two factors i am darn near positive that we will continue to grow untill we are thousands of times over the earths carying cap. and then theres no telling what will happen. I duno, if i offended anyone i seriously didnt mean it. its just my personal opinion.
Hank.

myronman3 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2007, 03:24:47 AM »

Quote

Now before everyone gets emotional about Nuclear the technology is safe beyond reason.

tell that to the people affected by Chernobyl.

Chilachuck · « **Reply #17 on:** November 19, 2007, 05:22:12 AM »

Citing Chernobyl as an argument against nuclear power is like citing some idiot blowing up a gun and his face with a double charged hand load to support gun control.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #18 on:** November 19, 2007, 06:14:38 AM »

By the same token, how many folks have been save by xray technology but Madame Curie died from radiation poisoning. How many folks went nuts or died from lead poisoning before they learned that lead solder shouldn't be used to seal canned foods? Technical advances, that we take for granted, often didn't come cheap.
I don't agree that earth is far from the saturation point of habitation. As people take up the more desirable lands to live on, they also pollute desirable lands with their waste and toxins. Look at all the fabulous farm lands in northern Virginia that have gone away so some federal bureaucrat can squat in a single family dwelling on a quarter acre. And drive to work in monster, (censored word)-envy suvs. Single occupancy, of course.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** November 19, 2007, 06:41:45 AM »

more people in this world have died from sickness than any other reason ! this old world has ways of cleaning itself !
a light brown race ? maybe ! think the really light brown ones will get along with the light brown ones ? when all people realize that skin color is not the problem and money is then the race card will go away ! but as long as money is to be made on either side don't expect any changes !

myronman3 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 19, 2007, 08:35:46 AM »

Quote from: Chilachuck on November 19, 2007, 05:22:12 AM

Citing Chernobyl as an argument against nuclear power is like citing some idiot blowing up a gun and his face with a double charged hand load to support gun control.

and how is that?

i see how the mindset in america is today, do more with less. corporate suits cut corners endlessly to increase the profit line, and i dont know that widespread nuclear power plants is the answer. sooner or later some one will get greedy and cut corners, bad things will ensue. remember, this is the real world we live in where what can go wrong often will. you cannot count on things to run according to a theoretical thought process where the conditions are perfect all the time. too many varibles. and i dont want my offspring to live in a nuclear wasteland. do a search of chernobyl, look at the pictures that you will see. then come back and tell me how great nuclear power is.

another thing, just because you might not agree, doesnt mean you have to liken it to supporting gun control. i fail to see the correlation. i see that statement as a cheap shot, trying to advance your position by belittling someone else.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** November 19, 2007, 08:58:38 AM »

nuclear power in the USA has been the safest so far !
you want a waste land look at conventional power plants with acid rain , health risk and waste of raw materials !
could we have a melt down ? maybe , but not likely !
the coal mines in this country have killed more people than the N-power plants ! that's a fair comp. they need the coal to generate power !
if you want to worry about plants then worry about the chemical plants , some are waste lands ,

Chilachuck · « **Reply #22 on:** November 19, 2007, 05:55:37 PM »

Heh. I just got done ripping on a liberal for what you took me post for. It was not intended as anything of the sort.

Chernobyl was caused by stupidity and carelessness. That's what I meant. You figure everyone is going to be stupid and careless?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** November 20, 2007, 12:45:19 AM »

not all ! i hear tell somewhere there are some de mo ctates that are somewhat smart !

myronman3 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2007, 03:10:28 AM »

Quote

You figure everyone is going to be stupid and careless?

all it takes is one. one person to miss something, one corner cut, one thing to go wrong. we havent even discussed where we would store the nuclear waste. your neighborhood, perhaps? i dont want it near mine.

gypsyman · « **Reply #25 on:** November 20, 2007, 03:34:56 AM »

On most days out in Lake Erie, the best walleye lake in the world, you can see 2 nuke plants working at the same time. Davis-Besse just west of Port Clinton,OH, and Enrico-Fermi in Michigan. If we don't keep up with the demand for power, is this whole country going to end up like California? Please ,can we buy some electricity from Texas. The idiots in Ca. don't want nuclear, don't want coal, don't have enough water for hydro,(they could if they wanted to harness the tides in the Pacific) couldn't put enough wind turbines up to keep L.A. happy. And then the wind turbines would probably be knocking over the solar panels!
We had a major power outage on the east coast a couple years ago, when the power grid got knocked out. It can, and probably will happen again. Don't think that it might end up like New Orleans if the power stays out in a major city, and the supermarkets are throwing out spoiling food, and people's own personal refrigerators don't work so their pitching out what they have. Really love this kind of thinking, puts me in such a good mood! gypsyman

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** November 20, 2007, 04:04:24 AM »

everyone wants cheap power but not the waste ! you use the power / store your share of the waste !

tomzuki · « **Reply #27 on:** November 20, 2007, 05:55:37 AM »

Yesterday, I just heard on the Dennis Prager radio show that if all power in the U.S. was produced by nuclear Reactor the waste for each person would fit inside a Coca-Cola can, and that all nuclear waste from the beginning would be about 150 tons. The waste from one Coal or N2 plant per year is ten times this rate. Additionally the nuclear waste is only depleted by 2% and can be re-cycled into new rods to be used again. The comments about Russian Plants really are not relevant to the U.S. as we take the extra step of shielding our reactors, that's what the domes are when you drive by. We learned this from D.O.E. operations of a small experimental reactor that completely melted down in the late 50's near the San Fernando Valley, CA. Check Santa Susana Field Laboratory on the internet. No, sorry but Three Mile Island didn't melt down, real close but not quite. Why the media only show the cooling towers when discussing Nuclear I dont know, but the Russian reactors were not shielded, were operated by un-qualified personel, and were allowed to completely melt down and emmit waste.

gypsyman · « **Reply #28 on:** November 21, 2007, 03:16:04 PM »

France gets 70% of its electricity from nuclear power. I would hope to think we are every bit as smart as them. gypsyman