Replacement for lead?

[handirifle]

Since CA has gone really stupid, and Arnie has banned lead bullets for hunting here next year, is there a replacement metal that can be used to cast bullets?

Is linotype just another lead?

I read the info here, http://www.lasc.us/CastBulletNotes.htm   and it seems pure antimony is out of the question, as it's too brittle.  Is there a replacement that's even close?

[Lloyd Smale]

lineotype is just lead alloyed with antimony and tin. About the only thing that will cast well other then lead is tin or pewter and they are both very expensive and would cast bullets that are way to light. As of right now when the lead is gone so will the casting be gone.

[handirifle]

 

[Dusty Miller]

I believe the lead ban only affects  those areas populated by the condors, or maybe its the spotted owel!  However, I'm sure it does not effect the entire state. 

[dakotashooter2]

That's very unfortunate. I do agree that lead is having a devastating effect in CA. Those effects being most obvious in the politicians and Hollywood types. I'm not sure HOW they are being exposed but obviously it is effecting their judgement. That would leve me to believe the problem  is not the lead in bullets but another source.

[Clodhopper]

They say that the condors are getting lead poisoning from eating gut piles left by hunters.  I don't think that any scientific evidence backs this up, don't see how it could!  The gut piles shouldn't contain any lead because most animals that are killed by hunters aren't gut shot.  The parts of the animal that is shot is usually eaten by the hunters and their families and I haven't heard of too many of them dying from lead poisoning.  I hear that the Tejon Ranch (a large land holding east of Bakersfield) has banned lead bullets for hunting on their property.  Doesn't bother me too much since I can't afford to hunt there anyway. 

[Smokin Joe]

Some of us affected by this crap believe that it would be much simpler to shoot the damned condors. At least that way the Commie legislature's agenda wouldn't be furthered.

[Clodhopper]

Some of us affected by this crap believe that it would be much simpler to shoot the damned condors. At least that way the Commie legislature's agenda wouldn't be furthered.

I think that if we looked at habitat encroachment into the birds area we might find more of the problem.  The condor is one of those creatures whose time has run out.  The lead from the bullets we fire is just an easy scapegoat for the irrational idiots that make the rules for this state.  The condor is going the way of the grizzly in CA, too many people and too much habitat encroachment for such a fragile animal to survive. 

BTW!  Like your avitar!  Did you spend much time in a Mk 5?

[dakotashooter2]

Lead is the scapegoat. There is some evidence that these birds are succuming to lead poisoning and I believe in a single confirmed case that it was for bullet fragments, however if bullets are a major cause where are all the other dead predatory birds? The eagles, hawks, falcons, owls, magpies or others that aslo scavage on gut piles? A natural source seems more likely. One might even suggest that the heavy smog that floats through the state may be a large contributor. I'm willing to bet 10 years from now this ban will have had no effect, except maybe allowing the birds to starve to death cause they have far less food to scavage.

This law probably should have had a sunset clause.

[Smokin Joe]

Clodhopper,

 Not so much time in a Mk 5 as in a Superlite 17 and 27

[Clodhopper]

"dakotashooter", I'm in agreement with the natural sources idea, and their natural range is in the smoggy areas.  There are numerous areas of concentration of heavy metals (mercury, lead, selenium etc.), some of which are, or have been, mined.  Abandoned lead and mercury mines are in almost every area of geothermal activity.  The incidence of naturally occurring heavy metal poisoning is more feasible to me than that of lead bullets.  I'm willing to agree to anything that will protect a species from going extinct, however, I need to see more scientific proof of the cause than the emotional stuff that we have now.  We have been putting bandaids on the large wounds that "we" created for too long now, it's time to look for the real cause.

"smokinjoe5150", those superlite rigs were after my time.  We were still in the Mk 5 and the Jack Brown!

[handirifle]

The condor is proven to be way more susceptible to lead poisoning than the turkey vulture.  I'm  acreationist, but this sure sounds like survival of the fittest to me.  Let 'em die.

I have another question, how does zinc rate in the weight category compared to copper and lead?

[quickdtoo]

Zinc is toxic too!

Tim

http://www.tufts.edu/vet/lead/index.html

Lead Alternatives:
Ceramics, bismuth, steel, natural granite, tungsten and recycled glass are all nonpoisonous alternatives for sinkers and jigs. Tin has been approved for use in Great Britain, but may be associated with other problems. Zinc should NEVER be considered a safe alternative to lead. Commercially available zinc is toxic, in fact, swallowing zinc containing pennies has caused illness or death in zoo birds, mammals and children. Zinc and lead are both very toxic. For more information on where to find alternatives to lead hunting and fishing gear, look at the following sites:

[handirifle]

Well then how hard is copper to melt?  Is this something an electric furnace like the lead ones, can do?  I know it's a lot higher melt temp, but I have no idea how high an elec furnace can go.

[quickdtoo]

A google search indicates copper melts at 1984.32ºF, here's something else I found..

http://www.gizmology.net/stovetop.htm

[30-06man]

That's interesting. I was melting some lead and making cast bullets with my gunsmith today. He was reloading me some 45/70 ammo with lead bullets.

[tomzuki]

Yup!  The Cal. DFG just broadened the restriction to include .22 rim fire too.  Now within Condor range, "The new regulations go one step beyond the law by banning not just the use on lead ammunition, but also the POSSESSION of lead ammunition in affected areas." 

This ban was railroaded into effect with limited public/hunter comments allowed, and once signed into law was unilaterally expanded.  The DFG took the side of the so called "conservationists" with not one case of EVIDENCE.  I can no longer support the DFG with license purchases and intend to hunt out of state from now on.  I wonder if the "Conservationists" will contribute to the Department of FISH and GAME annual budget?

[30-06man]

Wow. If the thing dies so be it but it had nothing to do with lead. I would be looking into moving.

[Jack Ryan]

I believe the lead ban only affects  those areas populated by the condors, or maybe its the spotted owel!  However, I'm sure it does not effect the entire state. 

So screw your rights and the constitution. Even the "king" is not in charge any more.

Your second amendment rights are determined by the wind and a whim of a bird brain condor.

Just kill 'em all and reduce their range, I say.

[Jack Ryan]

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2007/12/09/news/state/state8.txt

The condor was once found from coast to coast, but hunting, pesticides and development drove the birds to the brink of extinction. The federal government declared the bird endangered in 1967.

 
Scientists for years have said condors are poisoned when they ingest lead while feeding on the bullet-ridden carcasses of other animals.
   

So when does the ban on pesticides and development go in to effect?

[Lloyd Smale]

If every single sportsman in CA would write there congressman and keep writing a letter once a week Id about bet something would change. Everyone thinks CA is just full of liberal actors and gay people but theres just as many hunters and shooters there as anywhere else if not more! In about the same amount of time it takes to campaign here you can complain to someone who can make a difference. Also instead of sitting in front of the tv at night after work go and become active in the campaign of any pro gun pro hunting candidate  thats running for anything. Michigan too is a mostly democratic state but the politicians here know that it would be suicide for them to try banning any kind of a bullet used for sporting use. I for one would lead the march on the capitol building!! Another state i cant figure out is Wisconson. It is absolutely chuck full of sportsman and hunters but is one of the last holdout states for ccw laws and other then NY is about the last state in the union that youd want to be caught with a firearm on you that was even in the fringe area of the law.

[myronman3]

Another state i cant figure out is Wisconson.

you can say that again.   i have lived here a long time and have seen the political shenanigans first hand.  many times jumping ship has crossed my mind.

[hillbill]

good god, no lead in yur bullets, come down here to mo and ark with the rest of us holdouts and live free.it will be at least 20 yrs fore they ban lead here. and when they do we will be so far out in the stiks they cant enforce it.

[30-06man]

Won't ban it here. I think that hunters would hunt without licenses before not using bullets with lead.

[Clodhopper]

California is a funny state!  They pass all these ignorant laws concerning fish and game, then they cut the funding to the enforcement side.  I can't remember the last time I saw a game warden in the field or anywhere.  To get your deer tag validated after a kill, you have to bring the deer to town to have one of the local police officers do it.  If you get to the forest service station during office hours you can have one of the fire fighters do it, other wise you have to drive to town.

I also talked to a lot of the hunters out there, bird and mammal, and not one had heard of the lead ban.  I only found one hunting party that was hunting on a private hunting ranch (lots of money) that told me that the ranch was enforcing the ban.

Kinda comical!

[Dand]

I'm sure it would be mighty expensive but would bismuth be a possible alternative to lead?  Could one melt bismuth shot?  I've used a few shotgun shells but never examined the shot.

At least the shot is available.

[Lead pot]

For a hunting bullet were you dont use to many there is always lead free solder you can use or just tin.
There is the option of non toxic Atomized copper and other powdered metals you can swage a bullet using it.
I have used the copper and it worked just fine.
You have to watch these fur huggers and anti gun knot heads, they will come through every back door they can.

Kurt

[30-06man]

For a hunting bullet were you dont use to many there is always lead free solder you can use or just tin.
There is the option of non toxic Atomized copper and other powdered metals you can swage a bullet using it.
I have used the copper and it worked just fine.
You have to watch these fur huggers and anti gun knot heads, they will come through every back door they can.

Kurt

Yeah they come through my backdoor then there posing a threat. Let them taste that lead. Yummy!!

[gypsyman]

Wonder how long it'll be before Arnie and the Ca. govt passes a law to ban the drug dealers from using lead bullets. 'Course that'll never happen, how would all the actors/actress's get their drugs!! I give you guys in Ca. about 3 years and then the state will implode from all that stupidity. Hope I'm wrong.  gypsyman

[handirifle]

For a hunting bullet were you dont use to many there is always lead free solder you can use or just tin.
There is the option of non toxic Atomized copper and other powdered metals you can swage a bullet using it.
I have used the copper and it worked just fine.
You have to watch these fur huggers and anti gun knot heads, they will come through every back door they can.

Kurt

Anyone have any idea how lead free solder compares to lead, as far as weight goes?

What about cerosafe?  What does it weigh?  Is it just lead free solder by another name?