Semi-auto trigger pulls, light crisp ones?

[His lordship.]

Unfortunately, it seems that alot, if not most, of the trigger pulls on modern production semi-auto pistols are heavy with a long travel movement before let off of the firing pin.

I understand that these guns are focusing on the police market where the management wants the "added safety" to avoid unwanted accidental shootings and the corresponding lawsuits, etc.  I recently sold my Taurus (Beretta clone) Model 92 because of an 8 lb single action trigger pull with a long movement. :x

I have a CZ-75 with the crisp trigger pull of a good revolver, and I recently shot a Kimber Gold Match, also with a nice crisp trigger pull, and as both of these guns are being used by police departments, CZ in Europe, and Kimber in the U.S.A., it obviously can be done.  Does anyone here have knowledge on other makers that sell production semi-automatic pistols with a very nice trigger pull from the factory without having to see a gunsmith? :?

Thanks

[Savage]

Chris,
Yep, sad but true! The DA autos became popular as a substitue for training in the LE ranks. Because of the degradation of the selection process of recruits, an attempt was made to simplify the operation of police equipment. Rather than train officers to handle weapons in a safe manner, hey, just make the trigger pull long and hard! And do away with that old pesky safety, they might forget to engage/disengage it at a critical moment. While you're at it make the qualifications easier where skill at arms is not required to pass. Ooooops! There I go again!
If you want a really good trigger out of the box I'm afraid you'll have to stay with the top drawer single action weapons. The trigger requires a bit of fitting not normally found in lower priced lines. The DAs can be improved, but will never as good as the SAs. My Kimber is pretty sweet right out of the box. Sorry for the rambling.
Stay Safe,
Savage

[Mikey]

Chris:  regrettably, Savage is quite correct.  It is very difficult to get an adequate trigger pull in a DA/SA setup.  You might be able to refine one aspect of it but not both.  I'm not certain if this is due to liability concerns or just the design of the actions.  I first noticed this years ago on Walther pistols.  You could improve the let-off from the single action mode but that would do nothing for the looooooong heavy draw of the double action.

If you intend to stick with, or choose to stick with a double action auto, think about the Para-Ordnance pistols.  I understand their double actions are quite slick and many folks rave about them.  Otherwise, as Savage suggests and unless others can provide some acceptable alternatives, you may wish to stick with a single action auto.   Hope this helps.  Mikey.

[lostone1413]

I have a Ruger GP 100 when i shoot double action the trigger pull seems so stiff it is easy to move off target. I wrote about it here and one person wrote I should get a trigger job done. I was thinking about it then I was reading an article in a new magazine that just come out "Arizona Ourdoorsman" The name of it was Firearms Law-Weapons Modification It was wrote by a defense lawyer. In the article he tells you can increase your liability by having your gun modified. So guess since I carry the GP 100 the trigger job is off. If anyone wants to check out the magazine and can't find it in your area let me know and i'll give you the number and address. You know you wouldn't think something like it trigger job could get you hung in court but it can.

[JeffG]

In defense of the "training issue"  with regards to the trigger pull.  as a 20 year police trainer,  I believe that three significant issues arose with regards to ligh crisp trigger pulls on self defense autos:
1)  The amount of non-shooting cops has risen dramatically.  We can't find enough shooter/ex military types that have shot guns on a regular basis, nor do they do so off duty... to put a nice 1911 in their hands, they have no concept...they NEED a "cap gun" trigger pull. Taxpayers will not shell out at union wages, to refine the training needed for that 1911.
2) Shade tree armourers killed the 1911 for police work..sorry they did. When cops were constantly "dicking around" with issue duty guns it was a trainer's and chief's nighmare.  Having guns that were not going "pow"  or running away full auto at the range, and on the street, was not all that rare.  Have an officer's gun go to the crime lab, only to find out it had a four ounce trigger pull, , and all of the safeties had been disabled, THAT was hard to explain...the insurance carriers, the municipal attorneys, and chiefs wanted that stopped.  Here comes the idiot proof gun...the Glock, sorry, I love them!
3)  Product inovations since the 1980's along with the civil suit arena, placed OC Pepper spray, a metal expandable night stick, an extra pair of metal handcuffs, latex gloves for the offcer's protection, as well as a Taser on the officer's belt.  Not to mention mandatory bullet proof vests. Weight is at a premium people, we lug 30 pounds of gear around...all metal pistols are too heavy...

The handgun industry counts on law enforcement and military for a lion's share of their business...it keeps their unit cost down... sportsman get those designs as an afterthought...that is why a Wilson Combat or a nice Kimber is so special...if you need one, go get one...and cherish it.  Good shooting to you!:D

[Dave in WV]

lostone, if you have the action smoothed and no springs replaced you have done nothing more than a police armorer would do within department policy. I know two state troopers that have gone to the S&W armorer school and that is exactly what they do to issue weapons. Dave

[Iowegan]

Many years ago when I started shooting hand guns, I thought a light crisp trigger pull was the only way to accuracy. After a lot of training and practice, my thoughts have changed. Accuracy has very little to do with trigger pull, its more a state of mind or confidence. When you have to blame the gun for your poor performance, its time for more practice. I admit, guns with light crisp trigger pulls are more pleasurable to shoot but they don't change my score on the target. Between my issued duty guns and my own guns, I have had some with pretty crappy trigger pulls. At the range, I concentrate on drawing, handeling the weapon, proper hold, and trigger control. If you can practice enough to master these techniques, trigger pull, be it a long pull, gritty or creepy really doesn't make much difference. Instead of spending money on a trigger job, go buy some ammo and practice.

[SAWgunner]

I have the benefit of being in the Army and having a First Sergeant that is a reserve police officer also.  I love allo aspects of weaponry, and having said that, I do not recommend altering a carry gun in any shape or way. Here is why:

     Unfortunately, in today's society, we have a very bleeding heart populace.  When Top shares his stories, I always listen intently and try to learn things.  One of the things I have learned is that if you are involved in a shooting everything is analyzed to the point of exhaustion.  From what I understand, if you have altered the weapon you have used in self defense in any way, more than likely you will be chastised for it, to the point that if you carry a 1911 cocked and locked, some juries consider that you had a weapon with a "hair trigger" and were "looking to use your weapon".  He has told us that even when a police officer is involved in a self defense shooting, they go over his weapon with a fine toothed comb.  Whoah be onto the person that lightened the striker springs in his Glock or used different trigger springs in his 1911.  I have even been told that some juries frown upon using Hollow Point bullets, and you will be crucified for using "Cop Killer" bullets like a Black Talon.  I hope this helps.

SSG G.

[lostone1413]

I've heard the same stories to. Shame so many people think like that. To me the better shot you are even if it means mods on your gun the safer you are with it if something happens. Do they have a certain trigger pull they are required to have on a gun when they manufacture it?? I love the rugers but must say it doesn't seem like the S&W has as hard a trigger pull as the Ruger does

[SAWgunner]

Most people that use guns realize that anything you can do to a gun to make it more accurate and hit your target minimalizing an unethical kill or the lilling of a bystander is worth doing to a gun.  Unfortunately, we have people in this country that do not think for themselves and are uniformed.  On the other part of the question, I have noticed that most pistol manufacturers have been staying above 6 lbs of pull (in DA mode) to minimalize libality.

SSG G.

[Questor]

Pardini GT45.