New to high powered rifles, need advice

[quickdtoo]

And of course, our favorite writer, Chuck Hawks.

Woods and Brush Rifles


Brush-Bucking Calibers and Bullets

I have read about several "brush-bucking" tests in which the authors tried to determine empirically what sort of bullet is most likely to penetrate brush and reach the target (usually a deer silhouette). The test conditions were all different, ranging from firing bullets at a target placed some distance behind actual heavy brush, to intentionally shooting through limbs, to firing into a box filled with equally spaced wooded dowels of fairly large diameter.

One important variable in such tests is the distance the target is placed behind the "brush." Another is the diameter and hardness of the simulated or real "brush." A leaf is different from a twig, which is different from a branch, which is different from a rigidly held wooden dowel. Real brush has a lot to recommend it and is probably the test medium I would choose, but the biggest problem with using real brush is that all bullets cannot hit the same amount of brush at the same angle, skewing the results. I suspect that you would have to fire an awful lot of bullets into real brush to get statistically valid results.

Unfortunately, the results of the tests I have read about varied widely. I have never constructed such a test myself (although I have been tempted), as I am not sure what the test conditions should be. I suspect that the results of my test would be no more reliable than previous tests. Most authorities have concluded that a large caliber bullet of great sectional density gets through brush the best. Cartridges like the .458 Winchester Magnum are frequent winners. That makes sense to me.

Jack O'Connor, in his Gun Book wrote about the results of such a test that he spent several afternoons conducting with a variety of calibers and bullet weights. O'Connor shot at a 3' by 4' outline of a deer through a heavy screen of natural brush. His results indicated several things. One was that, as logic suggests, the farther behind the brush the target was placed, the safer it was. At 6' the "deer" was liable to be hit; at 20' the "deer" was pretty safe.

O'Connor tested a variety of calibers from the .220 Swift to the .375 H&H Magnum, including the standard one ounce 12 gauge shotgun slug. This latter projectile proved to the best brush-bucker of them all, as it is stabilized by its weight forward design rather than by spin. Even the 300 grain Silvertip bullet fired from the .375 Magnum showed considerable deflection in O'Connor's testing. The .35 Remington's 200 grain RN bullet often found the target, but frequently hit sideways.

The worst caliber for penetrating brush was the .220 Swift loaded with a 50 grain Spire Point bullet. It almost never made it through the brush intact. (No surprise, as this bullet is designed to break-up against light resistance.)

Fairly light (for their caliber) high velocity bullets such as the 87 grain .250-3000, 100 grain .257 Roberts, 130 grain .270 Winchester, and 150 grain .30-06 spitzers also faired poorly in O'Connor's brush tests. The 100 grain .250 bullet was better than the 87 grain bullet, but still not very good at getting through the brush. The 117 grain RN .257, 150 grain RN .270, and 180 grain RN .30-06 bullets all gave O'Connor a much improved chance of hitting the target in their respective calibers.

He rated the .300 Savage with a 180 grain RN bullet and the .35 Remington with a 200 grain RN bullet as "good." The best results with any rifle caliber used in O'Connor's testing were obtained with the .348 Winchester using a 200 grain Flat Point bullet. O'Connor summarized his results this way: "I found that the higher the bullet velocity, the sharper the point, the thinner the jacket, the lighter the weight, the greater the deflection.".................

The hunter owes it to the game he hunts to try to shoot through gaps in the surrounding foliage, or to wait for a clear shot. No one should intentionally try to drive a bullet though brush to kill an animal on the far side

[Mac11700]

Yup...read all of them too...it still doesn't change the results I got...I didn't try any FMJ's from my rifles...and the only ones that were shot were from his 223...I also did it a couple years after that with a bunch of shot gun slugs out of various guns we had laying around...smooth bore..rifled choke tubes and full rifled barrels...We got some surprises with those too...with the latest & greatest slugs of that time...I even went as far as talking to some of the barrel makers about the results...yea...same story...don't shoot with brush in front...Normally...this is what I do...but...like I said before...sometimes...for what ever reason...you can't see some of the vines & stuff...it happens...maybe not to tree huggers...but...for folks who spot & stalk thru the thick stuff...it happens...

I'll try & find the other test he did with pine boards...I have it saved somewhere

Mac

[Default]

  Ok,

  Just deleted 2 paragraphs I typed out in response to this and well... To sum it up ... Get a 308...Time tested, sniper proved ...

  More versatility then you can shake a stick at ... so many offerings from so many manufactures that you can spend a solid 5 hours or better just going through the ammo page for this round on Midway USA ... looking at reviews and specs ,comparing etc.

  From match grade UBER sharp shooting rounds to plinking fodder ...Light mag offerings to low recoil offerings ..this is truely a hard round to beat ,for the range it can reach lethaly , for its recoil and and unlimited amount of choices . and might i add cheap ammo that is new production and not mil-surp.. I feel you cant go wrong with this round... besides the shock pusle of this compared to a 3 inch 00 load ?? Hahahah no doubt  the buck shot wins that competition !!

  Only way you will get a round with mild recoil and still have the effective range and brush busting  (well as best as can be expected from any round shooting through brush) would be to go with a auto loader rifle i.e.
 AR 10 ,H&K G3,M1A , FN FAL  etc.. but then you will push well beyond the cost of a handi or ultra  ... think you and the boys are on the right track with the survivor in 308

  wish ya much luck in your quest....regards ,

     Default

    P.S I will be getting a survivor due to my fondness for its looks and for all the above stated reasons ... and I own a H&K G3 and plan to get a M1A in the near future....   Go 308 hehe

[Nightstalker6117]

I am sorry but the only thing I got out of this is what Mac said .... 

...I guess I'll buy it..My wife thinks I should any way...

                .....  the heck with what caliber to get i want to know where he found a woman that thinks stuff like that :-D

[Mac11700]

I am sorry but the only thing I got out of this is what Mac said .... 

...I guess I'll buy it..My wife thinks I should any way...

                .....  the heck with what caliber to get i want to know where he found a woman that thinks stuff like that :-D

She's one of a kind and she's mine...mine...mine... Seriously...she's is the love of my life...and I am truly blessed to have her as my wife...

Mac