Author Topic: Jinxed on the Weekend. (Read 2100 times)

Fred M · « **on:** November 18, 2007, 07:30:21 AM »

Jinxed on the weekend.
Shooting two wounded deer has never happened to me before. Both deer
were in a state of advanced putrescent.
Both stank terrible and were not fit for human consumption. Both deer
suffered at least one week or more. From the terrain around them they were shot at from long range 300yrd pus by hunters with big scopes and magnum power.

In my experience over the years watching magnum shooters at the range and in the fields, there is only about one or two hunters in a hundred that can
make a clean killing shot under field conditions on game. Are you one of them?

The above experience made me completely ill and spoiled my day; I did get a nice doe early in the morning. Hunting was tough in the high wind conditions were the game hides. I toke all the three deer with the 257 R Handi one shot each.

I never can recall a situation were I could not get a closer shot. Never ever where I needed a more powerful scope than 3-9 for deer and I been hunting deer for 55years. If you need more than 9 power scope you are too far away.

Shooting deer is not target practice, but an endeavor to humanly take a deer with a fatal single shot. The braggarts that claim to make killing shots every time at 300yrds plus are simply liars and those are the ones that wound game and don’t even make an effort to track a wounded animal down.

Perhaps these are strong words, but that is the way I see it.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2007, 07:40:09 AM »

Sorry to hear that Fred, I feel for ya, I've been in that boat once on a mule deer hunt in Wyoming, made a nice neck shot on a nice buck only to learn when I gutted him that he'd been gut shot before I shot him. Fortunately it was likely the same day as he seemed healthy otherwise. I cleaned him out real good and he was fairly good eating. But if he'd been wounded days before like yours were, it would have been a different story, I'm sure.

At least the 257R Ultra was shooting good for ya.

Tim

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2007, 07:55:41 AM »

Fred

I do understand how you feel , here in Ohio its basicly a shotgun state with 12 slug guns ruling , some years ago i came across a 4 point that had its bottom jaw shot off and no one ever tried to recover the wounded deer , i know this for a fact as after i put it down i back tracked to the point it was shot .

I also found the spot i think the shooter was and if so it was well over 250 yards , way too long of a shot with a 12ga given the guns and ammo that was to be had at the time and more than i would even consider taking now .

Richard

Mac11700 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2007, 08:19:56 AM »

Quote

In my experience over the years watching magnum shooters at the range and in the fields, there is only about one or two hunters in a hundred that can
make a clean killing shot under field conditions on game. Are you one of them?

Actually...yes...but...I have practiced enough with my rifles to be able to hit deer at 300 yards...Those that don't...shouldn't...I've seen guys not know the difference between 200 yards and 500...and try to take shots with sub caliber guns at those distances...It is chaps my hide when I see it happen...no respectful hunter worth his salt would do this Fred...

Mac

Foggy · « **Reply #4 on:** November 18, 2007, 09:43:20 AM »

Fred
You may not have put meat in the freezer but you end there suffering.

It clown like that that hurt hunting Big magnum big scope on range time past what it take to zero the weapon.

You were where you need to be

Bob

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #5 on:** November 18, 2007, 01:40:02 PM »

Oh well.

rbergum95 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 18, 2007, 02:02:24 PM »

Fred i know how you feel. i have had to finish off a few over the years here in PA. most of them hit by hunters who either couldnt shoot straight to save their liver of by hunters who just didnt care. the most memorable 2 were one 12 year old hunting illegally without his father present (12 year olds are required to be immediately with an adult here in PA) who shot a doe 12 TIMES, ill say that again, 12 TIMES, with a handi .243. all shots were in the rump and hind legs. i finished her off with a quick head shot when the deer and this kid crossed the property line to my land. and the second was a guy who i used to hunt with that shot a doe and a fawn with the same bullet at 25 yards. the shot hit the doe in the guts with a .35 remington and the bullet passed through and hit a fawn immediately next to her in the hind quarters. he trailed the doe for about 100 yards and finished her off but didnt care that there was a 3 foot wide blood trail in the snow that kept on going. i found the fawn about 3 hours later as i was waking through the area less than 75 yards from where he finished the doe. i finished the fawn off and went back to the cabin to discuss fireams safety with the hunter. guess he doesnt know to always identify his target and what is beyond it. unfortunately that fawn was the first deer i ever killed when i was 16. i feel bad that my first deer had to be taken that way but i am proud of the fact that i ended it as quickly as could for it without letting it suffer any longer. i wish more people would just be more responsible and keep from giving the anti's more excuses to hate us.

myarmor · « **Reply #7 on:** November 18, 2007, 04:53:24 PM »

I try to practice with my rifles as often as possible and in various stances and positions. I am very familiar with my hunting rifles and how they handle and shoot. So I know my limitations with them.
But I see what you are saying Fred, there are many a "BUbba" out there with over powered rifles and bad skill. What caliber they prefer to hunt with is not so much my concern as it is their awareness, aim, and capability. Sounds like you ran across such a hunter..if in fact he could call himself that

-Aaron

Sourdough · « **Reply #8 on:** November 18, 2007, 05:28:17 PM »

You did the right thing, too bad the original shooters did not finish their job. I had to do the same thing a few times down in New Mexico, and in Tennessee. I've also seen poor shots made, and animals lost from 40, 50, and 60 yards shots. The shooter did not know what he was doing, or did not care.

I shoot animals about the size of whitetails regularly at 300, 400, and 500, yards. I don't use a WHIZ-BANG-MAGNUM either, just a plain old 30-06, a 165gr bullet, and a good scope (currently a Burris). But I'm 100% sure of the shot or I don't make it. The only reason I don't shoot farther is lack of bullet performance.

I only use the magnum (.338/378 Weatherby) for Moose and Bears.

Fred M · « **Reply #9 on:** November 18, 2007, 05:48:13 PM »

myarmor.
Myself I take a great deal of pride of making one shot kills. In field shooting I use any extra support avaible, shooting sticks, bypods, fence posts, trees to lean on with a sling wrapped around my arm, prone with a napsack just to make sure of a perfect shot.

Over the last several years since I started to use my 25 Hunter rifle, later the 25-06 Ruger#1, the 257Roberts Handi, lately a 257Roberts Ruger#1 I have made as of today 34 one shot deer and Antelope kills with 35 shots.

All with 25 caliber rifles one with a 375 Winchester in a Ruger#3. I don't shoot unless I can make a killing shot. If inexperienced hunters use too much gun
with too much recoil they will flinch without them knowing it. That is not to
say they should use a margional rifle like the 243 or 223 which are strictly for expert riflemen.

When I told the story to my wife she almost cried and begged my to quit deer
hunting. This is really a sad story and the perpetrators are not to be found.
The game we hunt deserve more respect.

Slufoot · « **Reply #10 on:** November 18, 2007, 11:31:38 PM »

Quote from: Fred M on November 18, 2007, 05:48:13 PM

The game we hunt deserve more respect.

Fred M, You are a good hunter with great morals and I really respect you for that! I wish all hunters felt the same way about the game we hunt as you do.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

rex6666 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 19, 2007, 05:06:37 AM »

I understand your anger Fred.
Several times i have over heard conversations on rifle choice, while in a "store that sells guns"
seems like we have a generation coming up that either want a semi-auto so they can get
off lots of shots in a hurry at what ever they are hunting or a super-mag that knocks the deer or elephant down where ever it hits them. I have heard this many times while the
sales person agrees that that is the way it is done. I hang out from time to time in a
gun shop, that when a person starts this kind of conversation the owner up front tells them
that they need to learn how to be a hunter, and he does not condone their ethics.
He looses some business he admits, but just would rather not sell these nuts guns.
He is a little more expensive than the "stores that sell guns" but he has all my bus.
and several others i know.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 19, 2007, 05:40:40 AM »

Quote

When I told the story to my wife she almost cried and begged my to quit deer
hunting. This is really a sad story and the perpetrators are not to be found.
The game we hunt deserve more respect.

If I ever did something like that...my wife wouldn't be crying and begging...she would be demanding/yelling & kicking my back side out of the house...Slob hunters gives us all a bad name...too bad you don't know who did it...so you could turn them in..Just remember..all of us who do shoot long range aren't like that at all...

Mac

dw06 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 19, 2007, 05:47:27 AM »

Fred, I agree with everything you said,and my experience has been much the same as yours.Sure ruins a great hunting day for the one that cleans up the mess left by others.Note I said others and not hunters,as I beleive the ones who do not finish what they start cannot be called hunters!

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 19, 2007, 06:27:18 AM »

Fred - What a shame. I read on this site so many times that some one wants a high powered scope and rifle so they can shoot deer at 300 yards. I feel the same way you do. If it takes more than a 9X power scope to see the target - it is way too far out to make a good shot. BTW a 9X scope is plenty for a 300 yard shot. There are exceptional shooters that are capable of shooting game at long ranges, but they are few and far between. These so called "hunters" want 16 power scopes on their whatever magnum to shoot deer at 300+ yards. They need to get a gun they can shoot well and learn how to stalk (hunt) within a decent shooting range and if they can't then pass on the shot. We all have horror stories. I just saw a doe limp across the field in back of the house the other day. It was not gun hunting season yet, so it was probably shot with an arrow, or muzzle loader. No doubt from too far away from a "hunter" that did not put enough string or trigger time in.

NONYA · « **Reply #15 on:** November 19, 2007, 11:20:56 AM »

You determined they were wounded with Magnum caliber rifles by judging the surrounding terrain?How does owning a mag and a 12x scope make someone less capable a hunter than you think you are?I think you have a chip on your shoulder regarding magnum caliber rifles and the SPORTSMEN that choose to use them,dont try to judge a very large percentage of todays hunters because they choose modern magnum f\rifles and high end optics with more tha a 9x zoom,those deer could have been wounded by a 60 year old man wioth a flat top 30-30,you reall have no idea do you?

cascadedad · « **Reply #16 on:** November 19, 2007, 01:11:35 PM »

While what Fred found really is a shame,,,,,,,, I have to say that when I read through the initial post, I had the same thoughts running through my head that NONYA stated. That really scares me.

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 19, 2007, 02:05:22 PM »

NONYA and cascade ... I normally don't respond to these post but I feel I must and this is not to piss yall off but I hope and am sure that you do understand that Fred is not saying "ALL" magnum hunters are doing this. I hope that yall are not being that nieve. I agree with Fred 100% I have wounded a deer before and let me say ... I almost cried. That is the worst thing I felt I had ever done. It is a noise and a sight that I woke up to the next morning to and let me say i almost cried again. I was so ticked off at myself. What Fred's "magnum big scope hunter" is to me is the person that goes out buys a gun shoots it 10 times gets the so called "minute of deer" and says I am a "hunter" Well that magnum gun big scope hunter is an JERK. They forget about adrenaline and the shakes. Believe they both get the best of me. I have a friend that I have introduced to hunting and he has a 30-06 and he keeps asking me what is a bigger caliber. I am Using a 25-06. I keep asking him why and he says well what will shoot farther and the only question I have is ... can you shoot farther. I know what his answer "should" be before he answers .... NO. And neither can I. Saturday I had the BIGGEST deer I have ever seen within 50 yards of me. Well as all the big boys do they get behind a tree and then the next time you see them they are 350-375 yards away. At least that is what this one did. Now I can not tell you how BAD I wanted this deer. I wanted this deer bad ... to eat and to hang on the wall even though I dont have the money to put him on the wall I would have sold my wife or something. He was a stud. I was completely shook. But out of respect for the animal I know I cannot make that shot. Can my 25-06... hell yea. Can the guy pulling the trigger ... that is what these MAGNUM RIFLE BIG SCOPE "HUNTERS" need to ask themselves. I got out of the tree and staked about 150 yards and he was allready to far in the woods with a gun that NONYA I remember you bringing up whether or not the 25-06 is a 400 yards gun which you said "Yes it is" and I agree ... IN THE RIGHT HANDS. FRED I am with ya and I hope this clears it up for the few if they dont understand or if they are thin skinned owners of a MAGNUM BIG SCOPED RIFLE then you might not understand and continue to think that we are picking on you but that is defenately not the case if you are the responsible magnum rifle big scope hunter. By the way Fred I got a doe and a yote with my quarter bore. Oh and just so some of you know i am not against taking a longer shot if you KNOW you can make a clean vital shot. WHILE SHOOK!!! I am gonna practice at 200 but I dont know if I will ever shoot an animal at that range. Unless I get 2 inch groups at that range

cascadedad · « **Reply #18 on:** November 19, 2007, 07:04:25 PM »

NS6117, I hunt with a MLer and it doesn't have a scope on it.

Go back and read Fred's post and then read NONYA's post. Fred had a very bad experience and it truely is a shame that someone would do that. But to assume that it was someone with an evil magnum rifle with an evil big scope is QUITE a wild a assumption. Let alone that it was done at 300+ yards. He took a bad experience and used it to make a point that is obviously a personal pet-peave.

There are slob hunters that hunt with a recurve bow, a compound bow, a traditional MLer, an inline MLer, a .243, .338 mag and everything inbetween. Likewise, there are hunters who are the utmost in sportsmen that use every one of those methods to take their game.

It is insane when people think otherwise and they need to mature just a tad bit as far as I'm concerned.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 19, 2007, 07:10:31 PM »

Quote from: LaOtto222 on November 19, 2007, 06:27:18 AM

Fred - What a shame. I read on this site so many times that some one wants a high powered scope and rifle so they can shoot deer at 300 yards. I feel the same way you do. If it takes more than a 9X power scope to see the target - it is way too far out to make a good shot. BTW a 9X scope is plenty for a 300 yard shot. There are exceptional shooters that are capable of shooting game at long ranges, but they are few and far between. These so called "hunters" want 16 power scopes on their whatever magnum to shoot deer at 300+ yards. They need to get a gun they can shoot well and learn how to stalk (hunt) within a decent shooting range and if they can't then pass on the shot. We all have horror stories. I just saw a doe limp across the field in back of the house the other day. It was not gun hunting season yet, so it was probably shot with an arrow, or muzzle loader. No doubt from too far away from a "hunter" that did not put enough string or trigger time in.

I have a couple issues here...while Fred didn't say out right magnum hunters...Laotta has taken this many steps further...High power scopes are a necessity for many of us...in states with antler point restrictions...There are many times...getting closer don't cut it...While some here may feel magnums & high power scopes have no place...I say...Geta grip...Get a Life...and Get Over It...If you want to automatically blame someone that shoots long range with out knowing for a fact if they caused injuries to an animal just because it makes sense to you...to me your sounding as bad as some of the damn democraps running for office.

My last issue is what I highlighted...and I have to ask... How the Hell do you know this...? Was there an arrow sticking out of it...Was there any bullet holes in it bleeding profusely...If not...did it ever occur to you some kid might have hit it with a pellet gun or sling shot...maybe hit by a car...maybe chased by something ...that might have cause it's injuries......Do you think just because it isn't gun season folks in all parts of this country DON'T POACH DEER??? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...not from what you said...Nope...It's real easy to blame folks who routinely shoot further than you do...or have a different hunting style.....every time there is a wounded deer found...or seen...Sure...it's gotta be those long range hunters that did this...Sure...let's blame them...Let's put down those of us who work our buts off to be competent at shooting long range...Let's infer only a few can successfully hunt game at long range......What a load of horse manure...I can relate to what Nonya has said...I have personally seen more deer wounded with a 30-30 by weekend warriors than any body shooting Magnums...and I would bet my last paycheck most every body on this forum knows more of these types...than of us who shoot long distance...heck...some may even post here...or have drinking buddies here...who feel deer season is the time to get to gather and drink & party...then go blast something while hung over...Some here need to get off this hypocritical rant...

I guess everyone who gets one of the new Handi's in 7mm Mag & 300 Win Mags will just shoot deer at 100 yards...and use only low power scopes on them...Sure they will...

NONYA · « **Reply #20 on:** November 19, 2007, 08:47:01 PM »

I have found my share of wounded game and to my knowledge I have recovered all the game I have shot but it could happen to me tomorrow morning or could have happened in the past when I thought I had a clean miss.Never once did I decide that the wounded game I found was the result of a certain click of hunter who decides to use equipment I dislike or don't choose to use.Generalizing and making wild assumptions makes you look quite simple,and coming to the off the wall conclusion that it was the result of incompetent magnum caliber shooters with too much scope on their rifle because of the terrain is just crazy.Could have been a couple guys just like you or me with exactly the same equipment we prefer and things didnt work out the way they planned,S$%^ happens and if you have hunted as much as you claim you would have seen some of this S*&(^ happen.EVERYONE I hunt with shoots a mag with a 9x or higher scope on it,none of them fit your generalization.

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 20, 2007, 12:46:17 AM »

I am surprised that yall are taking this so literally. It is a man venting here on the forum after a bad experience. He is not directing this towards you or any other fellow GBO member. That is unless you are an irresponsible hunter. Would we all be on here gripping if Fred said ... It was probably someone with a damned ole 22 and 4 power scope. ... NO and I bet alll of us own a 22.

LaOtto222 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 20, 2007, 01:02:43 AM »

Thank you Nighstalker6117 for putting this into perspective - You and Fred are entirely correct - it is crime against nature when deer suffer and then are left to rot in the field...period.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 20, 2007, 03:26:52 AM »

It is indeed a crime to do this...and I don't know any would would purposely leave a deer to rot in the field...The problem is who is being blamed...with out the benefit of all the facts...for what ever reason. This is the problem when assumptions are made...

Mac

cascadedad · « **Reply #24 on:** November 20, 2007, 06:29:44 AM »

Quote from: Nightstalker6117 on November 20, 2007, 12:46:17 AM

Would we all be on here gripping if Fred said ... It was probably someone with a damned ole 22 and 4 power scope. ... NO and I bet alll of us own a 22.

The answer is YES, I would be "griping" if there was no evidence that it was a 22. Why blame something when there is absolutely no basis? That is just like walking outside and your car is stolen and you automatically assume it is a person that is a different race than you are. CRAZY! You just don't seem to get it. Fred gave NO information that gave any basis for the conclusion that he jumped to.

People need to realize that the hunting in different parts of this country is about as diverse as the people that live in it. I read on the internet ALL THE TIME about people in the east that go out hunting and climb up in their tree stand and deer walking by them ALL day long. MOST of these deer are much less than 100 yards away. For most of us in the west that is not our kind of hunting. Some places have UNLIMITED doe tags in the east. That is unbelievable to me. Go to the Washington game regs site here.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/hunter/hunter.htm

Click on the nice deer photo in the upper left and then look through the deer regs. We get ONE tag and our seasons are SHORT. In certain areas, you can possibly get a second tag. Most of us don't hunt in stands and wait for the deer to just walk by. We could wait for WEEKS or MONTHS before ONE came by. I'm not saying hunting in a tree stand it is wrong, it is just different. So many times, people look down on something that is different than what they do. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!

I shoot a modern inline MLer, without a scope. Some traditionalists don't like it because it doesn't look like theres. GET OVER IT! I'm different than you, I'm sorry.

NONYA · « **Reply #25 on:** November 20, 2007, 08:40:57 AM »

This isn't the first time he has slighted the HUNTERS who choose mag calibers as being POOR hunters,its a ridiculous generalization and now he has lumped in anyone using a scope with more than 9x magnification.Zero evidence + the surrounding terrain = a guy with a magnum rifle and a 10 x scope?

"In my experience over the years watching magnum shooters at the range and in the fields, there is only about one or two hunters in a hundred that can
make a clean killing shot under field conditions on game. Are you one of them?"

Nope and all the mag shooters I know(MANY) can make clean kill shots at well over 300 yards.

"I never can recall a situation were I could not get a closer shot. Never ever where I needed a more powerful scope than 3-9 for deer and I been hunting deer for 55years. If you need more than 9 power scope you are too far away."

SO I cant use my 12x at 100 yards and put a bullet through the brainpan of my does?Do it every year.

"Shooting deer is not target practice, but an endeavor to humanly take a deer with a fatal single shot. The braggarts that claim to make killing shots every time at 300yrds plus are simply liars and those are the ones that wound game and don’t even make an effort to track a wounded animal down."

I havnt missed a 300 yard shot with my magnums since I was 14(COYOTES EXCLUDED),am i a LIAR?Me and my partners practice out to 600 during the off season and a 300 yard shot is VERY common where I hunt.

"From the terrain around them they were shot at from long range 300yrd pus by hunters with big scopes and magnum power."

Is that an old indian trick?Hmmmm me thinks the deer is saying "man with 300 wm shoot too far and not track me well,giant over powered scope cloud his spirit and make him sad..."

hellacatcher · « **Reply #26 on:** November 20, 2007, 10:36:42 AM »

Now you went and made me ashamed that I shot one last sat. with a danged ol N.E.F.in a 30-30 at the great distance of 25 yards and it ran at least 50 yards before going down dead. I don't know whether to shorten the distance or stretch it out, or get a bigger gun or a smaller one. You people have me all confused.

cascadedad · « **Reply #27 on:** November 20, 2007, 10:46:56 AM »

Sheeeesh, you couldn't get any closer than that?!?!

Ditchdigger · « **Reply #28 on:** November 20, 2007, 01:58:16 PM »

Those 2 deer may have come from down here somewhere,some of these guy's will buy a AK 47 or something similar,a 30 rd. clip,and cheap fullmetal jacket ammo and go deer hunting.They think the more lead you have in the air,the better chance you have of getting it through the brush.I usually go back to camp when they're out hunting with there coverall's bulging with extra beer's. It wouldn't surprise me if one of these type's was'nt responsible for Fred's wound'ed deers.They think a SKS is a 2000 yd. gun and if they empty there clip at it,they'll have meat on the table. I'm not badmouthing semiauto's because I use a Saiga in 308 for hog hunting in the thick stuff ( sometime's it take's more than 1 rd.for a big one) but also it could have been someone with a Handi rifle that decided to play shotgun for awhile.(it happens don't it Fred)

Digger

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 20, 2007, 03:52:42 PM »

I am done after this because I can see that this is not going to end. First off I have nothing against anyone that has a magnum rifle. I know many people that have them and respect them. I would own one but I will say I HATE recoil. Call me what you will and I will probably agree :-) I am a wimp. I have nothing against scopes more than 9x, I personally have one. Not on a magnum rifle but on my 17hmr. 20x if you must know. I do have a problem with the people that hunt irresponsibly that give hunters like you and me a bad name. I have respect for the animals that I hunt which I think or hope it makes me chose a shot I know that I can make. I will say once more that I think Fred didn't mean what he said in the way that some of you are taking. That is my personal opinion and you have yours ... which is fine I have no problem with that but put yourself in Fred's shoes and what would you say.... me personally I don't know I wasn't there and I have never come across anything like that. So would I say magnum gun big scope ... dunno ... would I say 22 open sites

? dunno ... long bow wooden arrow

?? I DON'T KNOW i wasn't there and don't know what feelings would be going thru my head. Fred I feel your anger or pain or distraught what ever the word may be. Guys look what he is saying .... Irresponsible hunter but I will add the possibility that a guy or girl that just got unlucky and may be feeling like a heel right now. And for the later I feel for him because I have been in his shoes. Please understand that I am an understanding person and that is why I see where some of you could see it little different but I hear all this GET OVER IT. Guys diversity is what makes the world go around. Please if you are comfortable shooting 300 yards or 600 yards and you know that you and your equipment can make a clean kill than by all means ... pull the trigger .... shoot. But I've seen and heard of the infamous person that (call me stereotypical ) says I want a big gun that will just drop a deer like a bad habit. Then buy the gun bore sight it and then head out into the woods. Little does he know it is shooting 6in high and left at 50 yards. So he puts one right in the rump of a deer and wonders what happened. I know what happened ... you know what happened and I think that is what Fred is talking about (whether or not he chose the right word or word is irrelevant giving the outcome don't you think )