WHATS YOUR PICK FOR A BATTLE RIFLE?

[ironglow]

 Teddy;
  Know what you mean by  the CLP. grandson says that is best to overcome the white powdery dust that is common inAl Anbar.

   Since I have not had a great deal of interest in military rifles  outside the military..I don't have any among my score or so of rifles;
  so I suppose if the SHTF, my Marlin 336.. 30/30 would be as good as any to start. Not that I have anything against Military type rifles.
  The 15/16 series can be very accurate..probably well ahead of most other assault weapons. Many of our varminters use them as opposed to others..must say something..

  Should the worst happen..civil breakdown..I have a kooky notion that someone that is really good with a .22 auto and camoflage and concealment
  can do very well. He should be able to "acquire" an aggressor's weapon in short order...

[teddy12b]

buffermop,
     I couldn't agree more about locking this one up.  I'd love to look the new replies to posts without seeing this title come up.  It's getting really old and redundant.

ironglow,
     Since we didn't have CLP I used to take a regular pencil and cover the whole bolt carrier in graphite.  It wasn't the best, but I did what I could with what I had and it did seem to help it.  I don't think you'd be making a bad decision keeping your 336 30-30.  I have one that even though I don't get to use it that much I can't seem to part with it.  The ammo is plentiful and relatively inexpensive.  I like my 30-30 and it does every job I've ever needed it to if I did my part.

[rem700-3]

 
 (The Marines, being somewhat smarter, if not quite smart enough for the Navy, actually aim and run through less ammo.) Fight the way you train, and the Army trains to be wasteful.


I guess thats why army RANGERS had to share ammo with Marine recon in Gernada. 
I dont get into who's better as much as I use to all branches have a purpose.  But the only time I remember anyone having to share ammo with another branch was when the marines ran out in granada so that would lead me to belive that this statement is not truly accurate

[Chilachuck]

Chilachuck,
     I'm not sure if I took it wrong way or if you're trying to insult the different branches of the service & everyone who's ever been in it,

Sorry, I wore a barf bucket for a while. Just razzing those who can't figure out how to bring their mess hall, bunk, and air conditioning with them. Ahhh, that's the way to rough it.

I don't know what era the person I was speaking with was from, but I hope the Army has continued to emphasize marksmanship. These things take turn about. Like management fads in the civilian sector.

That's an interesting comment about the pencil graphite. It might be the black coating inside my Bushmaster that has been driving me nuts.

[ironglow]

  I took both those swipes..as just funnin'. I was Army, my grandson a Marine..we razz each other..but never seriously..

    Actually there is a little thing going on that some may not be up to speed on..

  As my grandson trained as a Marine Special Operations, he didn't train with regular Marines as the opponent. He trained against Army
  Special Forces and Rangers. I would assume that those units did not train against regular units either; elite units train against elite
  units.. Keeps them all sharper.
  There is an old saying.."The Army has the equipment, the Marines the training"..don't know just how accurate that is, but I do
  believe the Army has a bigger budget (e.g. during the first Gulf war the Army had Mk 1 Abrams Tanks...while the Marines were
  still using modified M60s.) 
    Maybe the Navy holds out on some of the funds due to the Marines..

  I won't stick by all this budget stuff..that's just my $.02..

[SharonAnne]

HERCO in a .223? you won't have to worry about how dirty it is. It will grenade on the first round.

 This thread was about a personal pick for a battle rifle. Not what country/military/branch of service uses. It also should not have been about bashing someones pick. My take on this also was, what would I pick as my Bug Out Rifle. To me it would have to be a fighting as well as hunting rifle. Many people read this thread but do not participate. They are looking for information. I for one never heard of the VZ 58. It LOOKS like just another AK but now I know better.

Ironglow with his 336 has leaned more to hunting than fighting. This is perfectly valid too.

Take your pick. Tell us why. I have learned much from this thread.

Don't turn this into a p--ing contest.

[Chilachuck]

HERCO in a .223? you won't have to worry about how dirty it is. It will grenade on the first round.

I don't load anything without a load chart. No, I meant I knew of one filthy powder that would not work in a direct impingement action and wondered which others were as filthy. I want to avoid them for all actions, including those in a H&R.

Bugout situation? I'd grab what was handy. If I had time, I'd probably get either my Kel-Tec .40cal or the 9mm. They do not look like a gun when folded, they are accurate enough, and the .40cal has a tac light. I also have companion pistols that share the magazines.

This part of the world is heavily vegetated, so sight range is pretty short.

For civil unrest, social break down, it's a toss up between the AK, SKS, and AR. The SKS draws less attention, IMO, but is slightly inferior tactically. However, my tactical limitations are much lower than even the Kel-Tec, so... (shrug)

[Mike Britton]

If I was "buggung out" I'd grab my M1A and the 800 rounds I have to go with it. Plus my Norinco jw15 .22 and a couple bricks of hollow points.
I'd take my M29 S&W, or my New Service .44 SPL. if I had time.

[SharonAnne]

"buggung"   if I had bug gung in my rifle I think I would give it a decent burial.

[phalanx]

The VZ 58 is a fine rifle ,but i would put it in more the carbine class.  Once you own one and shoot it the more you realize it is in no way an AK.  Some exterior cosmetics like a curve of the Magazine are the only similarity i see.
Fit and finish, along with being mostly a milled rifle put it in a class of its own. To say Battle Rifle that always tends to make me think HK 91 ,or FAL ,M14 ,the larger 308 or 06 firing rifles.
I do prefer the 58 over the ARs i have though , but mostly because of the Caliber, and the 58 just fits me and it shoulders fast and accurate.
They are small guns ,and at one time they were chambered for the 7.62x45 .
Now that caliber in that rifle is hard to believe what the recoil would have been ,but on some forums guys are trying to build them up.
That cartrage looks like a 308 short , but the ballistics on it from what i have read is exceptional ,but it is so expensive.
The 6.5 grendel is shaping up as a very good round ,it has all the ballistics of the 7.62x45 except it uses a lot heaver bullet.
Black Water says it may be the round that finally bridges the gap between a battle rifle and a carbine , that has always been the holy grail.
It came about from all the messing around with the short mags.

[Mike Britton]

"buggung"   if I had bug gung in my rifle I think I would give it a decent burial.

Sometimes I forget to proofread..............

[shootercochran]

Ruger mini-14. Hope I can buy one soon.

[SharonAnne]

I remember my Ruger Mini 14. Handy, compact, light,reliable, minute-of-55-gallon-drum accuracy. I DO hope the new production Minis are more accurate.

[cjclemens]

The new "accurized" mini's are supposed to be a lot better.  Since I started shooting an AR, my old Mini-14 has been collecting dust.  However, if it really came down to it, i think I might grab the mini on my way out the door because it can go a lot longer without proper cleaning.

[SharonAnne]

I still prefer something I can hit with past 100yds.

[Mike Britton]

I still prefer something I can hit with past 100yds.

Hell, I can't see past 100 yards!!

[phalanx]

I still prefer something I can hit with past 100yds.

M14 ,rules.

[SHOOTALL]

PHALANX be careful they get mean !

[SharonAnne]

you really don't mean 'THEY'.

[SHOOTALL]

yep they ! but then there is always the point of the spear !

[SharonAnne]

[Default]

Ford or Chevy ??

    Just grab your trusty M1 Garand and make your shots count 

       


           Default

[SharonAnne]

Default. The M1, while an excellent rifle is far from ideal. It is overly heavy, has limited ammunition capacity, announces when it is empty, and has many very small parts so a good stash of spares is necessary.

I like the M1. It just feels good to hold and shoot. For a major power sturmgewehr I think the M14 would be a better choice. Lighter, larger ammunition capacity, does not announce when it goes empty. Better yet IMO would be an AR10 in whatever flavor you prefer.

However, if you know the M1 well, have sufficient parts and know how to use them, and have 10k of .30-06 in enbloc clips, I withdraw my objection.

[Mike Britton]

Default. The M1, while an excellent rifle is far from ideal. It is overly heavy, has limited ammunition capacity, announces when it is empty, and has many very small parts so a good stash of spares is necessary.

I like the M1. It just feels good to hold and shoot. For a major power sturmgewehr I think the M14 would be a better choice. Lighter, larger ammunition capacity, does not announce when it goes empty. Better yet IMO would be an AR10 in whatever flavor you prefer.

However, if you know the M1 well, have sufficient parts and know how to use them, and have 10k of .30-06 in enbloc clips, I withdraw my objection.

Well put, my friend. Altho, I believe in many cases, the best battle rifle is what you have available when you go to battle.
Case in point, if all I had available was my Ruger M77 in .308, it would have to do. My Uncle came back from the war in Germany talking about underground fighters using anything that would go bang, and they could find ammo for.

[phalanx]

I had an HK 91 for years , i still have a 93 , but over all the M14 is better than any of them.
I had an LAR in the 80s ,and it is a good rifle but it is not an M14 , You cant compare an M1A to an LRB ,Fulton or Smith Enterprise unless it is pre Illinois.
Heavy ?? so , it isn't anymore heavy than a 91 depending what you have on it.
Walnut stock thick at the rear ,steel but plate ,it and the Garand have a long history of bashing heads.
Get one of the 12in Bayonets and its weight will drive that through a piece of 3/4in plywood ,and any Kevlar vest.
To say the Garand announces itself being empty you must have never had one in Boot Camp.
Many a Marine carried a spare empty clip and when in a fire fight they would take it out and cling it up against the rifle butt.
Many a Jap ,Nazi , Chi Com etc , came out of behind their cover to find out they were tricked  then dead.
Try bashing heads with an FN ,or  any other rifle other than the M1 rifles or the bolt actions and you just broke off your stock.
The steel butt plate used on an enemy coming up behind you will crush every bone in their face , Marines say it was the ultimate fighting rifle where both ends were deadly.

[SHOOTALL]

This is great !

[SharonAnne]

Phalanx, clean your spectacles and monitor screen. Notice my name and gender. This will give you some idea of whether I was in boot camp or not. I am quite aware of the empty clip trick. The trick works exactly because it is how the M1 announces it is empty. Otherwise the trick would be worthless.

 Yes the M1 makes a wonderful club, however I prefer a lighter rifle, for the difference in weight I can have more ammunition. For civilians the use of a bayonet or butt stroking a foe is inconsequential. If you are reduced to hand-to-hand combat, your rifle has failed its job.

To say something is no heavier than some other overweight rifle is not a plus.

Having had an M1, M14 and L1A1, I choose the L1A1 as I said WAY earlier in this thread. We all have our preferences. That IS what this thread asks. NOT bashing one rifle or another to somehow PROVE your selection is better.

Mike, your statement that the best battle rifle is the one you have when you go to battle, is absolutely right. I just prefer to have my best pick to be the one that I have should battle come my way.

btw Phalanx, it is "butt plate" not 'but plate'.  I also researched the stats of the 7.62x45.  A 130gr bullet at 2440 fps, not much better than a 7.62x39 and way short of the 6.5 Grendel.

[Default]

Valid points Sharon ..... .. I do have a AR 10 (DPMS version which i preffer over the AR 10) ... I wouldnt have worried as much about the ching of the empty in the
Garand so much , Its been some time since its service was used and most of the public at large wouldnt be looking for that sound to key in a moment of advantage... what they would know is its going through damn near anything they hide behind
  The Garand I own ( International Harvester ) has never hiccuped at any point and like alot of others here i take great care in keeping my weapons in good repair , But malfunction and breakage are always a nemisis of any rifle.... Thankfully i can place shot after shot into a 12" by 12" steel plate at 100 yrds with my Mil Spec Springfield 1911
 As for weight well my Colt dressed out at the moment easily out weighes the Garand  and the DPMS AP4 in 308 isnt far off .... I think Phal has a good point , it is a good club when that moment comes , and for to many in combat past it did ... You find yourself challenged in a reload or AMMO OUT !! moment and that bayonet or quick Butt stroke is a option and can come in handy  say moving through a structure and be surprised by a non friendly ... Its a tactic well used now days when a shotgun is the tool of choice
 Also its the only rifle in my collestion that allows me to put that many well aimed shots on a target while hugging ol' mother earth that close ... of course there is a slew of options in this type thread and thats the great thing about them

  And yes sharon i have a butt load of ammo for my Garand , not quite 10k just yet but then again im only one reloader and there are so many mouths to feed 

    Default

[SharonAnne]

Phalanx, my apologies. The 6.5 Grendel with a 129gr bullet has a MV of 2240. So you are quite correct about the 7.62x45. The 7.62x45 would start to lose velocity faster because of ballistic coefficient but with 200fps greater muzzle velocity it would balance out pretty well. Very interesting!

[Singleshotsam]

I'd want a semi-auto M4... CMMG Preferably... BUIS System, Aimpoint, and about 20 MagPul P-Mags