.243 for deer

[Spanky]

Needless to say, get what floats your boat but I think it's a terrible mistake to start a kid out with a .243 or a .410. And please, I don't want to hear all the BS exceptions of one from the god-like folks that live in a perfect world..... so far.

beemanbeme,

Just out of curiousity, what caliber rifle do you normally hunt deer with??


Spanky

[lakestatebob]

beemanbeme, actually I am interested as to why it seems to actually anger you that some like the .243 (its just a gun)  You must have had some horrendous failures with it at one time.  I don't want to argue but there are just so many success stories.  I wrote this post to here both sides success and or failure and why ( bad wound channel, penetration, bullet blow up etc.)  I admit to having some misgivings with the .243, but it was in my head no evidence none.  I believe if we were talking .223 we would probably here of bullets not penetrating the shoulder meaning shot placement broadside only but I'm hearing from people that any chest hit works, shoulders penetrated, quartering to or away no dif.  to me that is all you can ask of your gun - were talking deer of course not elk

[beemanbeme]

.260 thru .338
When I hunted out west, I didn't like taking an arsenal so I took one rifle suited for the biggest thing I was hunting and made do for the lesser game.  So I have shot 100# antelopes with a .338 and a 225gr bullet.  Since moving to Wild and Wonderful West Virginia, I have killed WT deer with 7-08, .260, 7x57, .280, .300Sav, and 8x57.  
If a man had no interest in hunting elk  nor great bears, I think a fellow could pick a 7-08 and have the best cartridge for all the game animals in the lower 48. It has a moderate degree of recoil and a diverse choice of bullet types and weights.  One might say the 7-08 is everything a .270 is but with a much better selection of bullets.  
I might opine that the .260 is as good but I haven't used it enough to say for sure.  By any road, either one is vastly superior to the pipsqueak .243.
Had the .243 been designed by hunters instead of madison Ave types with a 120-140gr bullet @2600-2800fps, it might be better thought of as a deer cartridge now.  By the same token, had the .260 been brought out 45 years ago, the .243 would probably be unheard of now.

[beemanbeme]

Sorry, it's not really anger.  I tend to get strident when I want to make a point.  (introduction to dabate 101) If I could put smilies or winks on here without wiping out half of my post, I'd do so.

[Spanky]

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html


Here is a page on the .243 and it's capabilities.
I think it says something about a 500+ yd.  1 shot kill on a mule deer.
Interesting reading.



Spanky

[Graybeard]

Sorry, it's not really anger.  I tend to get strident when I want to make a point.  (introduction to dabate 101) If I could put smilies or winks on here without wiping out half of my post, I'd do so.

If you'd turn OFF spell check you could. 

[DalesCarpentry]

If I where to do tat I wood speel like dis. Deal

[wtxbadger]

When I was just starting hunting a man I respect very much said "Pick your shot, don't be in a hurry and show the animal you are hunting a little respect when you harvest it".

Choosing your shot and the when and where you take it has served me well no matter what I was hunting.

wtxbadger

[glwenzl]

Interesting thread and I respect all opinions... Might as well throw my opinion in.... I didn't know it was that hard to kill a deer (NE white tail that is)... For the most part they are a thin skin animal and relatively easy to kill...

I started out in hunting with a 270 age 12.... Never will I allow any of my 6 children start out on a big recoiling riffle nor will I allow an adult sized riffle on a small framed person... So far it has been a NEF 243 (reduced loads to boot) but this year my 12 year old took his first deer with open sights 44 mag.... Bang flop on all of em so far.... Since Taylor took the 44 MAG I let my 12 year old nephew use the 243 and he got his first one shot bang flop.

I think the 243 is a ok deer riffle as long as it is legal and it is here delivering over 900 ft lbs at 100 yards.... The 243 has served my children well..... Not my first choice because 243 is just too common, I like things such as a 7-30 waters, 257 roberts and hand gun like the 357 mag and 44 mag but sometimes ya have to make do with what ya have.

[lakestatebob]

all very good stuff. thanks for your imputs.  I think all my questions and concerns have been answered.  thank you ALL for your personal experiences and opinions.

[beemanbeme]

  Spanky, I tend to give my own experiences more weight  than I do examples of one that I read about in cyberspace.  And too, when I say something like: "a less than perfect shot" and some poster that has maybe scratched down both his deer with a .243 starts yowling about gut shot deer, I tend to ignore him totally.   As I posted a while back about a young man that killed a deer last year at 623 yards with a .243. VERIFIED BY HIS GRANDPAW!    When I asked him how his .243 was sighted in, he said "2" high but I held over". So let's forget about the .243 being a 500 yard lightning in a bottle weapon, it is now an oh-fish-all 623 yard deer rifle. We heard all about it on the internet.

 

[Spanky]

beemanbeme,

I knew you'd come around sooner or later!!

Seriously though, I do agree with you on many of your points. Especially on your praise of the .260 and 7-08.
I do not by any means think that a .243 is perfect for deer but I do think it is more than adequate given the right circumstances (distance, angle, size of animal, etc.)
Most generally when I am hunting big game, I carry at least a .30 caliber (30-30, 30-06 or my .35 Whelen).
I have taken deer with a .22 Hornet but I absolutely DO NOT recommend that by any means, it just so happens I had a "perfect" opportunity. (close range, broadside, standing still deer).
I guess what I'm trying t say is that I was taught to hunt by my grandfather and tend to follow his ways. I think it is more important to get as close as possible and to take your time to make a good shot. I believe in shot placement being paramount and not counting on a big cartridge to plow through half of a deer to get to the vitals.
I think in the hands of a CAPABLE hunter who is willing to wait for a perfect shot or pass up on a less than perfect shot, the .243 is a very capable big game round.

It all boils down to this for me, I am a hunter and I respect other hunters. I would never try to degrade or belittle another hunter for his/her choices. Different opinions and ideas are what make the world go around.
That being said, I respect your opinions and I ask that you respect others.


Spanky

[beemanbeme]

But you see, there you go again, "in the hands of a capable hunter"... "a patient hunter"... "passing up less than ideal shots"... etc.  Given those limitations, there are many marginal rounds that could be considered adequate to kill a deer.  Around here the poachers favor the .22 hornet.  I knew a LOL (little old lady) back in Tenn that each fall went to her apple orchard and killed a spike with a single shot .22LR and dragged it back to the house behind her riding lawn mower to butcher.  Does that mean I reccomend those rounds as deer slayers?  They certainly work.  At least in those instances.  The point to be made is if someone has killed 150 or even 3 deer with a .243, nothing I can say is gonna change his mind.  I'm not trying to.  But if a fellow comes in and says, "I'm gonna get a deer rifle, would a .243 be okay?" I'm gonna do what I can to steer him toward a more adequate weapon. Whether it's for his kid, his wife, or hisself.
It's like the .223 for deer re-visited.  Or the head shot arguments.  Around here I know several good, careful, seasoned hunters that use .223s.  And they favor high neck shots and head shots. The deer here will often hide behind a clump of trees and peer around them at you so your only shot is the throat patch or the nose.  With these fellow's ability and the precision of the .223, these guys can pull the shot off.  But anytime the topic comes up, I voice strong opinions against the practices  because the minute you say, "yeah, it's a great idea", some box-a-year yahoo is gonna take to the woods and start spraying and praying.  Often too, I think some of the people voicing strong support of the round and the practices are wanting to appear to be somethng they are not. 
            

[Spanky]

Your hunting friends with the .223's sound like very capable, patient hunters who are willing to wait for an ideal shot. Do you tell them that their .223's are no good for deer even under ideal conditions??

One thing that has not been mentioned here is this:

I would much rather see a hunter in the woods with a light recoiling .243 that he/she shoots well than see a hunter in the woods with a gun that makes them flinch and shoot poorly due to heavy recoil.

The old adage still holds true.  100 grains through the lungs is better that 500 grains through the guts.
A hunter that shoots his/her rifle well will take more game regardless.
Even if that rifle is a .243


Spanky


PS-    I hope the statement you made about poachers using the .22 Hornet was in no way implying that I am a poacher. I stated in my post that I have taken a deer with my Hornet. Here in NY the Hornet is legal as it is centerfire. The deer I took was a legal buck taken in season.
        Again, I ask you to respect others when you have something to say.

[victorcharlie]

Please don't tell the 50+ deer that I've killed with the .243 that they're not suppose to be dead........

Yall believe what you want to believe......

I've killed enough to know how well the cartridge works.......

If you don't want to hunt with a .243 then don't......

[rickt300]

I have owned many 243's and my favorite the 6MM Remington. I used these rifles for varmints mostly and filling my doe tags. I remember my first buck I ever took with a model 788 in 6MM Remington using a 100 grain corelokt factory load I hit the deer behind the shoulder and it broke the far shoulder ending up under the hide in the perfect mushroom shape. This deer dropped so fast I had to ask my friend standing next to me where did he go? Charlie said; straight down. I liked the 105 grain Speer a lot but shot deer with bullets weighing from 80 grains to 105 grains never any problems. Seemed like it dropped most of them right at point of impact. The round does a lot of damage to the vitals too and I just can't figure why anyone would have any trouble killing deer with the factory 6's.

[beemanbeme]

The Hornet, in fact any center fire is legal in WV.  However it's apparent you flunked logic 101: Poachers favor Hornets, ergo, all people that shoot Hornets are poachers. ?? Nahh, I don't think so.
Anyway, I think we, or at least I've spun this out long enough.  As far as your cute little remark about 100grs thru the heart versus 500 thru the guts, if we ever meet up we'll have a score match to see who buys the BBQ and I'll shoot a 7-08 and you can shoot your .243.  If you want to give me 2 to 1 odds, I'll shoot a 7mag against your .243.   
Rgds
Beeman

[ccoker]

243 is plenty of gun in my opinion and experience for Texas whitetails and hogs
I have shot my fair share of each since I was a kid with a 243 and I have honestly never pulled the trigger where one didn't get eaten.
never had one move over 30 yards, most drop on the spot or walk around a few yards and then fall down.
from 75-300 yards
most shot with Federal 80g softpoints, a few with 100g Winchester softpoints and a few with Winchester 95g ballistic tips
ones shot in the heart/lungs (from the side or from the front) all were dead within a few moments of being hit
two that I shot in the neck with the balistic tips didn't die immediately and both were alive when I got to them after leaving them for about 30 minutes, that bothered me and so, I don't do neck shots any more even after doing it as a kid with out much thought because that's what my dad did (with a 22-250 and they were ALWAYS Bang-flop), though I would take a right behind the ear shot if the situations were right and I was 100% confident in the shot

most of the time the lungs are soup and the bullet is recovered under the far hide
dead deer and dead fast, that's what I care about
my son will be using my 243 this weekend and I am 100% confident in the gun's capability

Now, having said all that, I did recently get a 308 because I have always been intrigued by the round and want to try some long distance shooting and the ability to have a huge assortment of ammo easily accessible, do I think a 308 is needed for Texas whitetail?
not at all, in fact, I sort of feel like it's overkill.. but then again, dead is dead right?

[Graybeard]

Intellectually I KNOW the .243 is adequate. Too many deer have been successfully taken with it over the years for it not to be. Many have been lost to it as well but since they were lost we can't know for sure if it was poor shot placement, poor tracking or what to blame. My friend Barry up in PA has taken several cleanly with his Browning LW243.

He did this after my failure to recover one I shot with my LW243. He used the same bullet in a reload that I used in factory loads and has gotten all pass thrus and clean kills. I still have no idea what happened to mine. No blood at the spot the deer was standing nor anywhere along the over 100 yard path I saw the deer run before I lost sight of it.

My shot looked good when the trigger broke. Should have been lung or at worst a solid front of liver hit which experience tells me kills as fast as a lung shot. The buck did take a step just as the gun fired but the crosshairs were right when I heard the sound of the shot. I've played it over in my head a thousand times. The deer should have died within 100-150 yards and I should have found it. But it did not and I did not.

I think "maybe" it was found later by others hunting the property when they saw buzzards cirlcing but I wasn't with them and didn't see it so can't say for sure and they didn't examine it for a wound at that later date.

Why did it get over 1/4 mile from where I shot it IF that was it? I've got no clue. But even tho intellectually I know the .243 is adequate I sold that rifle one of the most accurate I've ever owned cuz I just can't make myself use a .243 again after that incident. The bad thing is I don't even know why or how it happened. I may have just plain flubbed the shot. I personally can't trust the .243 and I wish I could as my shoulder really needs the .243 these days but my .260 will have to do.

[Spanky]

The Hornet, in fact any center fire is legal in WV.  However it's apparent you flunked logic 101: Poachers favor Hornets, ergo, all people that shoot Hornets are poachers. ?? Nahh, I don't think so.
Anyway, I think we, or at least I've spun this out long enough.  As far as your cute little remark about 100grs thru the heart versus 500 thru the guts, if we ever meet up we'll have a score match to see who buys the BBQ and I'll shoot a 7-08 and you can shoot your .243.  If you want to give me 2 to 1 odds, I'll shoot a 7mag against your .243.  
Rgds
Beeman

beemanbeme,

I'd be happy to match shoot against you, it sounds like fun.
One problem though.
I don't have a .243.   I never said I did!!
I'll use my .35 Whelen and I'll go easy on you.  I promise!!
I shot "expert" in The Marine Corps so I "might" be able to keep up with you!!

I have really enjoyed this spirited "debate" (you spelled debate wrong in one of your previous rantings.  Spelling 101.)
Maybe out of respect for this thread and the hunters who have posted about the positives of hunting with a .243 you could keep any further "opinions" to yourself.
You have expressed your opinion and we all respect it.

To all of you hunters who are afield with a .243. Keep shooting straight and bringing home the meat. That's what it's all about.


Spanky



 

[backstrap]

I bought my step son a NEF243 2 years ago for him to start useing for a deer rifle when he sat by himself the year before that i sat with him and he used my H&R223 and shot a big doe and a small buck the doe was at 50 yards and the buck at about 40 well any way a year went on and i got this 243 at a gun show for him got the gun scoped shooting good at a 100, and he up and moved to his Dads in Texas so i take this little rifle out last year never have deer hunted with a 243 all i used was a 06 and took this 243 out and shot a 10 point feild dressed 184 at 230 yards last year 1 shot the deer ran 40 yards and was just as dead as the ones i have shot in the past with my 06, i shot 100gr core loks in this 243 rifle,hit him right behide the front leg when through his heart and stuck between the skin on the fare side i had my doughts about this rifle but after seeing that i would use it any day for deer hunting i would have used it this year but bought  me a A-Bolt in 25-06 and used it

[rickt300]

CCoker, How did the Ballistic tips fail on the neck hits? I still put bullets just in front of the shoulder a bit above center of the neck and have yet to have any problem though a couple were still alive when I got there none went anywhere. I am sort of new to the use of Ballistic Tips and within the next week or two will be filling my doe tags with this bullet pushed to 3000 fps out of my 6MM Remington. I could push them faster but don't see any need and accuracy is outstanding for a light sporter weight rifle.

[ccoker]

honestly, I didn't really do a post mortem on them..


the ballistic tips: some people love em, some don't
some claim they will explode on hitting bone and not penetrate, others claim they have no problems with them...

[beemanbeme]

Spanky, wow, expert in the Marine Corp.  I did too. But that was way back when they were still building men.  So you're just in here to stir up some crap. You don't have any experience just a big mouth and a tongue that's loose on both ends.  Maybe you're the one that needs to keep his opinions to himself. 'Cause that's all they are.

[DalesCarpentry]

Come on now guy's. Easy!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are all friends here and it is time to let this go. I have been caught up in this type of thing myself and although hard to do it is best just not to respond to any more comets. Dale

[Spanky]

Ouch!!  That almost hurt my feelings.

You're right Dale, this is getting pretty ridiculous. I asked "you know who" to keep his negative opinions to himself for the sake of this thread and he chose to make a personal attack against me.

Spanky, wow, expert in the Marine Corp.  I did too. But that was way back when they were still building men.  So you're just in here to stir up some poop. You don't have any experience just a big mouth and a tongue that's loose on both ends.  Maybe you're the one that needs to keep his opinions to himself. 'Cause that's all they are.

I guess I will have to be the bigger man and step aside from this foolishness. I had a very nice Sig Sauer chambered in .243 that I used to hunt deer with. It was a very accurate rifle and I took several deer with it, all one shot kills using 100 gr. Remington ammunition. I guess I do have some experience to go with my opinion. I ended up selling the rifle to a friend of mine who was looking for a deer rifle for his son. His son has since taken 3 deer with it. Also all 1 shot kills.

Dale, how did your opening day go??
Did you get a buck??

 

[lakestatebob]

I'm frankly amazed that the personal experiences are OVERWHELMINGLY positive on its effectiveness.  Other than one negative comment where shot placement wasn't known for sure and one opinion that it's just too small therefore not adequate ,  I now feel quite confident that this cartridge is just fine for deer.  There may be better but to I love the idea of being able to see the target through the recoil and with lighter bullets use the same gun for varmints

[victorcharlie]

This same question comes around every few weeks it seems.......

 

[~Ace~]

I read this thread as I was eating venison I dropped with a .243... Tastes Great 

[Spanky]

Good on you Ace!!
Congrats on some good eating!!


Spanky

I read this thread as I was eating venison I dropped with a .243... Tastes Great