I've used the 150 flat points with mixed results; on a medium buck, it expanded well and had max internal damage at 40 yds, on a button buck at 70 yds quartering away it went in and out without any expansion. Deer dropped on spot-only because it went through the heart and punctured both lungs. This was with a Contender and 14" barrel. This was factory Federal ammo bought at Wally world at end of last season; they discount at around 50% at end of season to get rid of excess stock. It shoots a jagged hole at the range from a rest at 100 yds, and the price is right. I'm currently reloading with 110 vmax for ground pig and prairie dogs; haven't shot any yet.