Author Topic: Stopping power or capacity? (Read 6467 times)

sdailey5 · « **on:** November 22, 2007, 04:50:59 PM »

I just wanted to pose this question because I am struggling to answer it for myself. As far as home defense is secured, in my case a nightstand gun, what do you prefer...the 15 round capacity of a Ruger P89 9mm or the stopping power of an 8 round 1911 in .45?

Illhunter · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2007, 05:10:56 PM »

for me stopping power cause my night stand gun is a 1911. of course i would prefer a 12 ga for home protection.

canon6 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2007, 05:23:59 PM »

The myth of stopping power is just that.NO handgun has 100 % stops .period.You can get close.ie the 357 125gr jhp.This round is very hard to control and MOST handgunners do not practice enough with it to become proficient.
So my answer is which ever you can shoot the best,in the dark, under stress, with repeatable efficiency,for some this may be a 22 while others it may be a 45 .I have a 9mm that I carry most of the time and have 357's,as house guns.just my 2c Doug

Savage · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2007, 02:41:59 AM »

How about a bit of both? My nightstand gun is a Glock 22. Sixteen rounds of .40 "Ranger T". I also keep a light on that gun, and my glocks are the only ones with light rails. If I had a .45 that held 16 rds I'd use that, come to think of it, I do have one .45 that holds 11---------------hummmmmmm.
Savage

rockbilly · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2007, 06:30:21 AM »

Can't beat the old 870 Riot gun loaded with eight rounds of 00 Buck, course there is a Sig 220 .45 there too.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #5 on:** November 23, 2007, 07:40:05 AM »

I'd go with the Ruger and 13 rounds in the mag and one in the chamber. My two house guns are six shot DA revolvers.

XD9 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 23, 2007, 03:12:29 PM »

I have to agree the stopping power is a myth. Nothing beats a well placed shot. My nightstand gun is my carry gun...Springfield XD 9mm. During the day, I have the 10 round mag in it. At night, I have a 16+1 extended grip mag. Two steps away, in the closet, is a Benelli 12ga pump. In my opinion, there is no sound more intimidating that the sound of someone racking a shell in a pump action shotgun!!

stolivar · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2007, 05:04:47 PM »

My nightstand gun is my XD45C with 10 rounder for ccw and 13 rounder for night duty.

steve

jsoukup · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2007, 05:32:00 PM »

For home defense, I wouldn't feel under-gunned with either. I own a P85 9mm and a Colt 1991 .45. Both plenty good for the house. I used to work at a pawnshop and I carried both there at one time or another. The only time I felt under-gunned is when I carried my Charter .38 5-shot. It's a pretty good gun in it's own, but if you have more than two assailants, I think it gets kind of thin. I like Silvertips or Federal 115gr JHP in the 9mm. Speer Gold Dots in 200 or 230 grain in 45.

Of course, I always have a shotgun or rifle backup, not in hand, but nearby ready to go.

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #9 on:** November 24, 2007, 05:56:58 PM »

Stopping power is a myth?

Try telling that to some guy who has taken a load of 12 ga. shot to the chest!! On second thought, it'd be tough finding anybody who'd survived such an encounter!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #10 on:** November 24, 2007, 07:14:08 PM »

Do you expect to be attacked by a gang? If so capacity. If not. What gun do you shoot better, have More confidence in both hitting your target and it functioning every time with a modern hollow point designed bullet? If your limited to Ball in the 1911 keep the P85 next to you. With modern defensive bullets the .45 and the 9 are real close in % of one shot stops. Shot placement is a whole lot more effective than fire power. It is alot more about personal preference and confidence than any thing else. Picture your pistol in your mind eye and your looking down the sights. Is it the 1911 or the Ruger? Use that one.
I keep a S&W Model 28 with a 4" next to my bed with Remington 125 grain Golden Sabers in .357 Mag. I picked this one this for two reasons.
1. I live in Southern California and if I have to use the gun, I will loose the gun and most likely never get it back. So it is something I like and trust, but can live with out or replace easily.
2. A revolver does not impart any spring tension if it's loaded and if I do not take it out and shoot it for a few years (You tend not to shoot the bed side gun a lot. I try to, but time does fly) it will continue to fire. I know that springs are good, but if I'm unlucky enough to have some one break in in the middle of the night he may have brought Mr Murphy with him. The revolver is fool proof and a stop gap till I can get to the Pump shot gun in the closet and shuck in a round making that loud snackety-snack! noise that is burglar code for get out now!!

teddy12b · « **Reply #11 on:** November 25, 2007, 05:25:07 AM »

When it comes to my home and family I like both!

Stopping power has been argued too much for my tastes. Facts, the GI's that carried the 1911 45's complained about recoil, not that it didn't put bad guys down. Fact, today GI's complain that a 9mm doesn't put the bad guys down, but at least they have plenty of ammo to shoot them again with. Obviously wars claim more lives with guns than anything else, so I'll take the GI's word for it.

All that said I have a Springfield XD 45 by my bed. It hold 13 rounds of 45ACP and I've got some spare mags, not that it'd ever be needed. Everyone likes to think they'll never miss a shot, that's ego talking. Realty is if you wake up in the middle of the night because of bad guys bigger bullets are better and the more the merrier.

S.S. · « **Reply #12 on:** December 15, 2007, 02:17:23 PM »

stopping power and practice.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2007, 03:03:31 AM »

Extended gun battles are rare, go with larger caliber over capacity.

Cheese

StrawHat · « **Reply #14 on:** December 16, 2007, 03:27:21 AM »

If you can handle a 45, use it. If not find the cartridge you are most comfortable with and use it.

While I like the 45 ACP cartridge, I am not enamored with the normal platform that propels it. My preference is the revolver so my hanadgun of choice is a S&W "N: frame canambered for the 45 ACP.

If that doesn't trip your trigger, there are many other handguns on the market I am sure you will find something in which you have confidence.

Good luck.

jhm · « **Reply #15 on:** December 16, 2007, 05:14:01 AM »

In reality if for the home only and lots of us have more than one handgun I would go with capacity and for a CCW weapon the one I can carry comfortably ALL day with the largest caliber I could handle, (remember if its too heavy with extra rounds in the weapon and posses a problem to carry guess where it will be when you need it most, at home not on your side.) JIM

XD9 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2007, 07:15:33 AM »

http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2004/oct2004/oct04leb.htm#page_15

Very interesting read for the "stopping power" argument. This was a study done by the FBI in 2004 looking at the calibers used in the killing of over 400 cops in the last ten years (1991-2001). The results may surprise you. The 9mm killed the most cops BY FAR! Second was the .38, followed by the .380. The .45 was pretty far down the line.

The study also compared those kills where the cop was wearing body armor and those when the cop was killed with their own service weapon (taken away). Again, 9mm won out on all accounts.

Definitely not what I expected. I know you can find studies all over the place and eventually find the results you want. Just thought some of you may find this one interesting. I still say a well placed shot is more important than caliber size...when speaking of hand guns. Obviously, given the choice between a handgun and a shotgun at close range, I'd reach for the shotgun.

Savage · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2007, 08:15:42 AM »

XD9,
Interesting read. Not really conclusive, as it only gives statistics for fatal shootings. If they had included the number of felons and officers shot that survived by caliber, it might have been more informative. I agree that there is no such thing as a guaranteed one shot stop, regardless of caliber. Each individual is a study within it's self, and no two persons can be counted on to react to a bullet strike in the same way. The only sure stop in a CNS hit----------with any calliber.
Savage

montveil · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2007, 09:01:22 AM »

Do those stats account for the number of each used. It may be that the cop killers used more of the mentioned guns than .45's.,
That does not mean that they had more "killing" power but just more were used

williamlayton · « **Reply #19 on:** December 19, 2007, 09:28:11 AM »

I don't know that statistics ever caused a death.
I do believe that the 9mm is the most popular caliber but, I don't believe that it is for the reason of the best caliber.
I like the .45 and I like the super .38 and the 9x23 before I would choose the 9mm---heck the .40 and 10mm are stronger than the 9mm.
I would choose the .45.
Blessings

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #20 on:** December 19, 2007, 09:33:40 AM »

If you can hit what you are shooting at, go for power. If you can't hit it, go for capacity, at least they will keep their heads down while you beat a hasty retreat to where you keep the big stuff (12 ga.).

Dusty Miller · « **Reply #21 on:** December 19, 2007, 02:02:56 PM »

I read the Civilian Self Defense Blog every day and, from what I've seen there, stopping power most definitely is NOT a myth.

gwhilikerz · « **Reply #22 on:** December 19, 2007, 05:27:04 PM »

Stopping power with a handgun is woefully little compared to almost any rifle or shotgun. Heck even the 30 M1 carbine round has more knock down power than a 44 mag from a revolver. If a person can shoot a 45 well then it is good. If he can't the 9 mm is a better choice. The German army made good use of 9mm. And if he can't shoot the 9 go to something a little smaller. My wife has one gun exclusively when it comes to defense, a 22 mag revolver. She is comfortable with that and shoots it well.

XD9 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 20, 2007, 02:17:49 AM »

Quote from: Dusty Miller on December 19, 2007, 02:02:56 PM

I read the Civilian Self Defense Blog every day

Which blog do you read? I did a search for "Civilian Self Defense Blog" and got several hits on Google. I'd be interested to add that to my daily reading...

blackpowderbill · « **Reply #24 on:** December 20, 2007, 02:36:04 AM »

No standard handgun round is really potent enough to go hunting the worlds most dangerous game. Having opined that, I will favour firepower by volume. Not spray and pray mind you, but rapidly delivered hits on target until the target ceases to be a threat.
I like 9mm. In reading various works by people who know far more than I, it seems that if top flight ammo is chosen then there is little if any difference in effectiveness between 9mm, 40 and 45 ACP. In "Street Stoppers" they list Corbon 9mm 115 JHP +P, various maker's .40 S&W 155gr and Federal .45 ACP 230 Hydro-shock as being the top performers. They were listed as being separated performance wise by only 1 percent a piece. When I get unpacked from moving I can find the book and name the authors if anyone is interested.

44 Man · « **Reply #25 on:** December 20, 2007, 10:45:15 AM »

Silly Rabbit, only hits count. Use whichever gun you can hit with quickly under pressure. All those extra rounds or several misses count for naught. You put the first perp down. Then usually self preservation kicks in and if there are several more, they are usually going to be beating feet from that point on. 44 Man

williamlayton · « **Reply #26 on:** December 20, 2007, 01:21:48 PM »

I agree .44.
Blessings

missouri dave · « **Reply #27 on:** December 20, 2007, 03:18:19 PM »

The .357 magnum 125 grain JHP has always been known as a stopper. In ballistic gelatin tests that I have seen the 147 grain 9mm rounds using the better hollow points (gold dot/hydrashock/goldensaber/etc) has nearly identical expansion AND penetration. For myself I go for capacity and placement. One of my bedside guns is a beretta 90-two with the 20 round mag in place. No handgun really has stopping power. Yes, I know of no one who has ever been attacked by ballistic gelatin but if the 9mm perform nearly identically to the .357 in it then in flesh the results should be similiar.

prairiedog555 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 21, 2007, 07:45:09 AM »

This is a question for all of you experienced pistoleros-

When I look at the ballistic tables the difference between the .40 SW and the .45 acp would indicate that the .40 is a much better choice, especially with the great new bullets offered in .40.
And you can get the Hi Cap mags without the added bulk in the grip.

I have a Glock 21 .45 which is a load to carry, I much prefer my Browning Hi Power, but like the advertised punch of the .40.
What do you think?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** December 21, 2007, 08:06:42 AM »

killing vs. stopping power not the same .
they say a 9mm hp will reach the size of a 45 if it opens up ! why start off small ?
high cap , no one said glock 21 0r para P-14 , can't the high cap 45's play too ?
the most truthful thing so far is ya got to hit it to stop it !
the revolver can be had in 45 also !
in the confines of a bed room , 7 shots are alot ! if you believe you can stand there and touch off 15-17 and not draw fire more power to you !
now ask your self would it be better to be shot with 9mm. or 45 ? bet the first thing popping in your mind is neither one !
now consider - you wake up to someone entering your bed room ( from a deep sleep ) now do you want buttons to push ? levers to move ? or grip safety's to grip correctly ? OR DO YOU WANT SOMETHING YOU CAN GRAB POINT AND STOP THE ATTACKER ? something that can lay there for years and still work !
as reliable as the 870 is the mag spring should be replaced every so often ! ( not my idea , check with factory )
so leave the ego out of it and get a DA revolver of Glock ( or similar ) . CAL. ? pick one you hit well with !
but if you have others in the home that may have to use it make sure the smallest and weakest can use it as they may be saving your life with it ! didn't think about that did ya !