Looking for quiet big bore

[blackboat]

OK, while it sounds like an oxymoron, what I am looking for is something to lob big bullets with, that doesn't need a muzzle brake,

A little background: In the mid to late '80's my family owned a hunting and fishing store. We got into the Contenders in a big way, working with SSK and always had a selection of custom TC's. We were running hunts to help popularize the idea. After it was all shook out, two cartridges emerged as standards. They were the 7 TC/U, and the .375 JDJ with the full kit. The 7's were always wonderfully accurate, and the then-new Nosler Ballistic Tips were thin enough that they worked well in it. We never lost an animal with this combination.

The .375 was the other favorite, especially to those who wanted something different. It was a favorite hunting round of mine at the time. More than enough power, and with the loads JDJ started us out with, accuracy was impressive to boot. Also impressive was the muzzle blast through the ports. I shot a deer one day, and it was quite a while before I could hear again.

I find hunting with ear plugs not so great for still hunting big game, so I am considering some other alternatives. A loaded down .45-70 seems a bit wrong with all the unused space in the case, and thus I have been considering a .45 Colt barrel and using some of the very heavy large meplat bullets. The .338 whisper may have some merit too, although I'm afraid it might have too little oomph, but don't really know. Plus, I would like to see a little bigger hole in the barrel. Why start 'em small and hope for expansion when you can just start big to begin with?

I understand pistols are loud, and recoil in handguns hasn't bothered me. But when you get to the point that the muzzle brake is mandatory on a handgun, that's where I have a problem. Don't want a muzzle brake, or arrestor, or whatever they call them these days.

My original Contender was stolen so I've been out of this for about twenty years. I picked up a G2 at a sale and have .17HMR and 7 TC/U barrels for it currently. I'm trying to run down a 22LR barrel for practice and squirrel hunting, and the last thing I want for now is  big bore tube.

I didn't see much useful information on SSK's site; and there's a lot of barrel makers out there that weren't around last time i did this. So if anyone can suggest something to sling large bullets that's reasonably controllable, I'd very much appreciate some input on this.

Thanks,

Rob

[maxhunter]

WHAT !

[rbergum95]

yoy may want to look into one of the WHISPER series of cartridges. SSK makes the barrels for them.

[Grumulkin]

I understand pistols are loud, and recoil in handguns hasn't bothered me. But when you get to the point that the muzzle brake is mandatory on a handgun, that's where I have a problem.

Well, I've shot a 460 S&W Magnum with full house loads and no brake so a brake obviously isn't "mandatory."  There are a lot of big bores out there with less recoil than the 460.

[7-30 Waters]

How about a 445 Super Magnum?  Just a lengthened out 44 Mag case to 1.6 inches.  No special dies needed, just regular 44 Mag dies.  Popular with the T/C Contender silhouette shooters.  Accurate powder has data for this cartridge.  All you would have to do is have a gun smith lengthen out the chamber and cut a proper throat on a 44 Mag barrel.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Handgun/Standarddata/44Cal(10.97mm)/445%20Super%20Mag%20page%20136.pdf

7-30 Waters

[banjoman]

Big bore with no brake is a personal thing....how much recoil and muzzle flip can you tolerate!!!  In the Contender platform the .375 Winchester would meet your requirements...... the 445SM, 444 marlin or the 45-70 Gov would too but most that shoot them have them braked again how much abuse can you take.... just my .02

[sdb777]

How quiet?
Think .458SOCOM......but you'll need a can(suppressor) to them as quiet as possible.
Don't need a muzzle brake to keep it under control either.


Then again a 50BMG is quiet.....if you wear the correct ear protection!  But a muzzle brake is necessary........unless your just a internet superman wannabe!  Seen a few of them around.......





Scott (want a 20mm next) B

[blackboat]

Ok guys, let me try and straighten it out a bit.

It's not so much quiet as it is the I find the muzzlebrake to add too many db's headed toward the shooter.

How muck recoil and muzzle flip can I control? A fair amount in the past, but top 375 JDJ loads while controllable are still not fun. I actually remember the worst damage being to my elbow from being scraped along the benchtop.

I'm concerned about the loading data for bigger cartridges; there doesn't seem much about reduced loads and I'm worried that the JDJ/444 marlin/45-70 are just going to have too ,much room left over at the levels I'd mostly run one. It would be nice to have the extra power available, but not necessary for most stuff (deer & hogs).

I hadn't thought much about the 445 SM, thinking it mainly a silhouette number, and I prefer 45 calibers to 44's.

Actually I lean toward the 45 or the 375 cartridges because of molds or bullets already on hand for use in another cartridge.

I was hoping for some input on what rounds may be manageable without a brake, with case capacity to use a powder to allow a fairly complete burn (don't like them big fireballs).

Keep in mind I'm a couple of decades out of touch and trying to catch up, but having trouble stumbling across much data or articles on some of these cartridges.

Thanks,
Rob

[Graybeard]

There is or at least was a .375 Super Mag. A barrel for that should do what you want and use the moulds you have on hand or so would a .375 Winchester or .38-55. That would be my recommendation to you is to look into those and decide which best suits you.

[MnMike]

My choice for a .45 is the Win 45 mag. I load it to pleasant .45 ACP levels for plinking to nasty 1650 fps 230 grain hunting loads, which are tolerable without a brake, if not totally fun.

mike

[jamie]

Seems like a 454 Casull would work well also.  You can load light 45 Colt loads or hot 454's depending on your needs at the time.

[swampthing]

In a "G2"   I'd go with the 45-70. Loaded with "IMR" "TRAIL-BOSS" powder, there will be "NO" room left over in the case. I was getting 1250fps with 280g hardcasts from my .444marlin. Unique powder is also a good choice.

[olywa]

Unless I missed something, what would be wrong with your original idea of the 45 Colt? That or a 44 Mag with subsonic loads using wide meplat heavy-for-caliber bullets would be a pretty darn good bet under 100 yards. A 300-325 grain cast bullet out of a 14" Contender barrel at 900-1050fps would be nothing to sneeze at. Pretty darn controllable in the 14" barrel and not terribly objectionable as far as noise and flash are concerned if you choose your powders well. The Lyman manuals have some pretty good load data to start with.

[GREYGHOSTt]

just get your self some electronic ear plugs and don't worry about the noise..

[kennisondan]

Rob :
the suggestion of trail boss is a good one; the 45 70, 45 and 44 mag wander out about 1000 fps with loads that just about fill the case ... and is really pleasant from what I am reading.
All can be loaded up a bit as well, and all the way to really persuasive and heavy... the case capacity concern is nicely handled by trail boss, it was designed to make double charges almost impossible, and to fill cases, and it is not position sensitive either...
good luck with your choice.
dk

[blackboat]

Ah, good news on that Trail Boss stuff. Keep in mind, I've been out of it for nearly twenty years and just plain forget about all the new powders. Starting to look like 45-70 might be a good choice from what ya'll are describing. Reasonable loads for most work, with the dinosaur killers available when needed.

Been checking with this forum's sponsor to see what might be available. Seeing more 45-70 than 45 Colt without the 410 option. I agree; over 300 grains and the old Colt cartridge becomes something to work with. Big holes in critters do much to help my atrophied tracking ability. Especially if they don't go anywhere.

The 375 Win is somewhat interesting, although I still miss the 375 JDJ. If the JDJ can be loaded in a similar manner to what has been described with the 45-70, then it'll probably come down to which one shows up first cheap enough for me to be able to buy it.

Good ideas, thanks. Again, the main thing I'm after is as much power as can be reasonably handled without resorting to a muzzle brake, and can be loaded down for other purposes too.

Rob

[maxhunter]

just get your self some electronic ear plugs and don't worry about the noise..

  Got to go with this idea !

[45Super]

I`d have to agree with 7-30 Waters..........  .445 Super Mag is the way too go !!!!

[kennisondan]

I should add that I did get top notch hearing aids that compress sounds and my big guns sound like a 22 long rifle, and I can actually hear deer and stuff.. how refreshing...
dk

[Heavy C]

just get your self some electronic ear plugs and don't worry about the noise..

  Got to go with this idea !

+1

[Dusty Miller]

FWIW, I think look'n for a quite big-bore is like look'n for a good look'n fat girl!!

[old coach]

Try the 45 Colt in a 14" bbl. I use Beartooth hard cast 265 grn WFN and AA#9 powder.
You can get 1200 fps easily from the 14" bbl. Great deer stopper up to 100 yds.
45 Colt bbl not the 45-410.

[SOILhunter]

How about a 12ga slug? Not in the rifle line but still has decent speeds and is controllable

[Keith L]

I think he may have trouble getting a 12 Gage pistol barrel, and minimum length issues in this country would make for an awkward gun.

[pauly]

G'day from downunder . 

I have a 15 inch .460 encore barrel with a factory muzzel tamer that i got from ed , i find with a load of h110 and a 300 gn xtp it will kill at one end and maim at the other     , but once i started to load it with trail boss and a 325 grain gas checked hard cast bullet i really started to enjoy it .

I also have a 10.75 inch .45 long colt barrel for my encores and a couple of 10.75 inch .45 acp and auto rim barrels for my g2 contenders , these would also suit for your needs and i heartily recomend them . 

Regards Paul .

real aussie men eat vegemite everyday . 

[no guns here]

black powder has a completely different sound that smokeless... more of a boom than a bang.  Doesn't hurt the ears as much...  maybe something in BP would be enough without hurting...


ngh

[Clodhopper]

FWIW, I think look'n for a quite big-bore is like look'n for a good look'n fat girl!!

Actually, I'm kinda partial to girls with a little meat on their bones and a little curve to their lines!  And you seem to have a little more fun with the pleasingly plump ones than the skinny stuck up ones.

How quiet are we looking for here?  .45 Colt standard loads and .44 special in a .44 mag aren't going to PO your neighbors at the shooting range.  Recoil is manageable, they're accurate, and both produce enough velocity with hunting bullets (250/260 grain Keith) to be useful in the field.

[skarke]

I apologize if it has already been stated, there are a lot of posts.  Anything that you can safely load to subsonic speeds without pressure problems should suffice, more or less.  The Whisper series loaded SUBSONIC!! does a great job.

Bottom line, beware pressure problems in lightly loaded cases.  It seems counter to reason, but it is true.  H4895 is generally a great powder for light loads.

[454-hunter]

I am of the mind to believe that any of the caliber mentioned especially the 45 colt 44 magnum and the 454 casull and 445 all can be down loaded to more tame levels which would result in quieter more controllable loads. I also had a muzzle brske on a 454 casull and it wasnt queit it was loader they should name them noise increasers. the only thing it did was allow for a split second quiker second shot sight acquisition.This of course my Umble opinion.
454-hunter

[mcwoodduck]

Get another .375 but with out the muzzle break.  You may be over looking the obvious that you keep hitting on that the muzzle break is sending the blast back to you.  No break, and it goes away from you.  A .45-70 would also be a great choice.
There is also the option of electronic ears.  They work really well for picking up the little birds on the ground and when they move or fly (yes you can hear the wings) something is coming in to your stand and the hooves make a different noise than the little birds feet on the leaves.
The down side is you look like a geek walking around the woods with them on but at dinner your not yelling the story of how the buck.........