Author Topic: Ruger #3 in .375 JDJ, re-chambered from .375 win (Read 3302 times)

thornblom · « **on:** November 24, 2007, 07:33:19 AM »

Howdy ya'll,

Have any of ya'll done this and if so, how did it turn out. I just recently had my Ruger #3 .375 win re-chambered to .375 JDJ by JD Jones and it looks and functions great. Now comes load development. I could use a little help here. I got RCBS dies from JD and have formed my cases. I want to use the Hornady 225 grain .375 caliber spire point bullet. Cases have been primed with Federal 210 match primers. Need some suggestions on best (optimum) powder and charge weight.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

thornblom · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2007, 12:14:56 PM »

Well,

I see that ya'll are reading this but nobody is replying. Come on all ya'll .375 JDJ shooters out there, share a little.

Thanks in advance.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

MarkH · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2007, 03:33:32 PM »

I agree that loading data is scarce ... the Hornady manual is a good source, though. I use H322 with the flatpoint 220 gr with good results.

thornblom · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2007, 03:56:00 PM »

Thanks Mark.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Graybeard · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2007, 05:47:09 PM »

Do you have the loading data sheet from SSK? If not since they did your gun get it from them. Hornady manuals have data for it and I kinda half way think I recall seeing it in the Nosler but am not looking at it now so maybe not. Those are your two most reliable sources of tested data and you should use and depend on them.

Even tho your rifle isn't a TC most so chambered are and you'll likely find more help on the TC Forums (both rifle and handgun) than here on the Single Shot Rifle Forum.

thornblom · « **Reply #5 on:** November 25, 2007, 12:07:44 AM »

Thanks Greybeard,

Yes I do have the data from SSK/JD Jones and the Accurate Arms data for their powders. What I was really wanting to do was to find someone who has a Ruger #3 in .375 JDJ and converse with them on items such as recoil, using the 225 grain Hornady witch I have no data on, primers, headspacing on shoulder instead of rim, bullet seating depth. Also, since the Ruger #3 is very much stronger than the TC contender, could it be loaded to say 50,000 psi as opposed to 45,000 psi for the contender.

You know, just a good informative Bullsh_t session and swapping ideas.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Graybeard · « **Reply #6 on:** November 25, 2007, 07:17:27 AM »

I'd say sure it could be. The only problem is how do you determine when you've exceeeded that new limit? Without good pressure tested data you're out on a limb and the more powder you drop in above the listed max the more that saw in your hand is cutting on that limb between you and the tree.

Sure you might gain another 100 or even 200 fps by increasing pressures but to what end? If you need more why not just go with a more powerful round to begin with? The little you gain has no real world significance. Just stick to tested data. If you need more get a different round.

thornblom · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2007, 08:49:02 AM »

Thanks again,

You are absolutely correct. I think that the pistol data (load/bullet combos) fired in rifle barrels gain 200 to 230 ft/sec. So, if the pistol data is capable of taking elephant and cape buffloe, when fired in a rifle it is just more of a good thing. And a safe thing.

Thanks again.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Fred M · « **Reply #8 on:** December 01, 2007, 07:32:32 PM »

Dave.
The Ruger#3 is not a leaver action and will stand a lot more pressure than leaver action. The # 3 and #1 can handle can handle any big magnum
cartridge.up to 65kpsi a 225gr Hornady SP can be loaded with 56.3 gr Of Hodgdon Benchmark at 100% load density for 56Kpsi. MV with 22" barrel is
2620 ft

The rating for the 375JDJ is 60kpsi. So the Benchmark powder is very
suitable. Start 10% lower.

zasxcd · « **Reply #9 on:** December 01, 2007, 08:11:23 PM »

To address your post regarding recoil from the #3 re-chambered to a more powerful round: I also have a #3, also originally in .375 Winchester, that I had re-chambered to .375 H&H. The recoil is about the same as you would get if you had a #3 in .45-70 and loaded it with 500 gr bullets at about 1950-2000 fps. Brutal. If you plan on shooting reloads that are anywhere near max, I highly recommend that you have a very good recoil pad installed, and that you are careful to not mount your scope too far back. A scope mounted too far back will definitely bite you. I use an intermediate eye relief shotgun scope, newly installed, but I am not sure if it can take the recoil. My eyes are getting too old for open sights. Or is it that they are getting blurry from the recoil of my .375?

thornblom · « **Reply #10 on:** December 02, 2007, 06:18:29 AM »

Thanks Fred M and Zasxcd,

This is the kind of info I was looking for. Not that I would need to go that high, but it is good to know what your rifle and cartridge can handle. I knew it would be higher than what the contender could withstand.

Thanks again,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

thornblom · « **Reply #11 on:** December 02, 2007, 06:28:50 AM »

So Fred M,

Would you happen to have any information on loading IMR-4064 and IMR-4895 in the .375 JDJ in the Ruger #3 w/22" barrel?
I happen to have several pounds of these 2 powders on hand along with H-4895 and Rl-15.

Thanks,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Fred M · « **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2007, 10:10:29 AM »

H 4895 100% load density 56.3gr, 51.8kpsi, vel.2529. amount of powder
burnt 95.5%. This powder is a bit too slow but should work not too bad. A compressed load would help some.

IMR4064 101.1% Load Density 56.3gr, 46.3ksi, vel 2498ft, powder burned 93% This powder is too slow and would perhaps burn dirty.

IMR4895 101.1% L.D 56.3gr 45.9 kpsi vel 2541 ft 95.3% powder burnt. This too may burn dirty

Reloder 15 is not suitable much too slow. From what I can tell Benchmark is the best powder for this bullet

I played with my 375Win and the 225gr Hornady for a long time never did get a good group until this last load with
39gr H322 with a 116% fill Density powder is compressed to the canelure and produce sub MOA groups and 2353 ft MV. Bullet is loaded 10 thou into the lands.

That is about as much as I can stand for recoil. So I have quit fantasizing about the 375 JDJ. The accuracy is not as good as the 200gr Winchester Factory load, but almost. My 225gr bullets are Moly plated and produce a bit less pressure.

Please note that the above data are not loading recommendations but predictions from “Quick Load”. Start low and work up.

For sure your rifle can stand a good recoil pad and a scope with long eye
relief.

Here is my #3 Ruger in 375Win

thornblom · « **Reply #13 on:** December 02, 2007, 10:22:56 AM »

Hey Fred,

Thanks again for you time and effort. I do appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

thornblom · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2007, 06:37:54 AM »

Hey Fred,

I tried this load:

Case: Remington .444 re-sized to .375 JDJ in RCBS dies
Primer: Federal 210 Match
Powder: 52 grains of H-4895
Bullet: 225 grain Hornady spire point
COL: 3.075"
Guestimated MV: 2400 ft/sec

Hornady new manual lists 51.7 grains of this powder with this bullet in a 14" barrel at 2200 ft/sec, so I just figgered .3 grains more powder to make it an even 52 grains and fired in the 22" barrel should be close to 2400 ft/sec. Really scientific , huh Vern.

Anyway, on the bench it did 3 shot clover leafs at 50 yards, all holes touching. At 100 yards, I got a 5 shot group to go 1.25" center to center. After all shooting was done, the barrel showed no un-burnt powder and was relitively clean. The primers were not flattened and still had good radius on the edges. So, this particular load was rather mild for this rifle. And, with 225 grain bullet at 2400 ft/sec has all the energy needed for lower 48.

Sir, you are absolutely right about the re-coil pad. It will bruise the shoulder.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Fred M · « **Reply #15 on:** December 28, 2007, 09:02:11 AM »

Hi Dave.
QL predicts your load at 39721ksi and 2334 mv/ft. This a pretty mild load.

With a 100% fill ratio or 56.3gr of H4895 you will get 51180 ksi. and 2518 mv/ft.

The 375JDJ is rated at Pmax(map) 51488psi well be low Ruger #3 capabilities.

Yes the kick will be very noticeable.

With my compressed load of 39.0gr of H322 in the 375Win I get 2353mv/ft with the same 225gr bullet. 40gr would gernerate 2419mv/ft. I have not tried this load with nearl 3000ft/lbs of energy it is a wicked bomb in a wee rifle.

I did not use it this year for hunting, since I gave my new 7x57 #1 a go and it did a very good job. Two one shot kills. All six deer I got this year with three
different single shot rifles were all one shot kills. Two Ruger#1's and my custom 257Roberts H&R Ultra.

Not too bad for an old fart, I even got 4 pheasants with 4shots with my new
20g SXS Ringneck Huglo CZ stomping through the snow with my bionic knees.

Have a Happy new Year and lots of fun with the 375 JDJ. Fred M.

thornblom · « **Reply #16 on:** December 30, 2007, 04:41:06 AM »

Thanks again Fred,

The 52 grain charge of H-4895 fills the case 1/3 to 1/2 way up the neck. I am slightly compressing this charge at COL 3.075". I am not sure if this case will hold 56.3 grains of H-4895. If it would it would be heavily compressed. It might hold 53 to 54 grains if I used one of my drop tubes that I use for loading black powder cartridges. The good thing about this cartridge is that it automatically eliminates the powder position in the case wandering around and causing large variations in pressure and velocity. Most loads shown in the Hornady (new) loading manual will be slightly compressed if you seat the bullet with the bullet base to the junction of the case neck and shoulder. The .375 JDJ chamber is throated to be able to use the 300 grain Hornady round nose if need be. This gives shorter (read lighter) bullets the ability to be seated out to longer COL to reduce jump and give a little more room for powder.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Fred M · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2007, 09:36:18 AM »

Dave,
My predictions were based on 68.5gr of H2o case capacity to overflow.
Different cases have different case volumes.

With the expansion ratio of the 375 JDJ , compression of the powder will enhance performance and accuracy.

thornblom · « **Reply #18 on:** December 31, 2007, 01:54:45 AM »

Thanks again Fred,

That is good news about the powder compression enhansing velocity and accuracy. I was not sure and was trying to avoid compression as much as possible. That is why I continue to bug you about these things. I always recieve good info.

Have a Happy New Year!!!

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

thornblom · « **Reply #19 on:** January 13, 2008, 01:53:44 AM »

Hey Fred and happy new year,

I found a little extra capacity in the .375 JDJ case. The RCBS .375 JDJ full length size die that I got from JD Jones make the .375 JDJ cases from .444 Marlin brass in one pass. That is, with the die set up to contact the shell holder at the top of the stroke. So, these new cases will headspace on the rim of the case. I took some of my fire formed cases and sized them with the size die turned out 1/4 turn from touching the shell holder. So now these cases will headspace on the shoulder of the case. These cases worked good through the chamber with no problems. The bonus in doing this is that cases headspacing on the shoulder, as a general rule, shoot more accurately. But now, 53 grains of H-4895 only comes up to the junction of the case neck and shoulder. And 54 grains of the same powder will come up into the neck precisely where the 52 grain charge was in the full length sized case.

I loaded some 53 grain loads but haven't had time to shoot them yet. This is becoming an interesting project. It will be even more interesting when I get a decellerator recoil pad installed on the butt stock.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Fred M · « **Reply #20 on:** January 13, 2008, 08:25:41 AM »

Dave.
Your cases will last a lot longer if you have them seat on the shoulder with
very little head space like one or two thou.

My program shows the 375JDJ to have 68.5gr H2o case capacity, that is to overflow. If you use different cases you should measure the case capacity
otherwise you get different performance with identical loads, or too hot a load
with a lesser volume case.

If you neck size the cases only, you will get a bit more volume hence more powder in the case. Like I said 56gr of H 4895 will still be pretty low pressure in the #3. Alas with that powder you can't get enough into the case to cause
any problems.

thornblom · « **Reply #21 on:** January 17, 2008, 12:01:16 AM »

Thanks again Fred,

As you say, the H=4895 powder is a little slow burning for this case, but, it will keep me out of trouble in these beginning stages of reloading for this rifle and cartridge. And, so far the accuracy has been really good. I am sure I will try other powders, especially a few of the quicker ones, but for now, H-4895 will keep me busy.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

thornblom · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2008, 09:09:59 AM »

Howdy Fred,

Just a few questions, where were you able to find the Ruger #1 wood for your #3 and how much trouble was it to fit it to your #3? I understand about the lever modification. Can you suggest some places to look for the wood? I looked on ebay, gunsamerica and gunbrokers, no #1 wood.

I just got back from the range where I shot some of the .375 JDJ stuff I loaded with the 53 grains of H-4895 and the 225 grain Hornady bullet. Accuracy at 50 yards and 100 yards was the same as the 52 grain load. Couldn't tell any difference in the recoil (quick/hard/stunning jab). Questimated muzzle velocity approximately 2378 ft/sec.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Fred M · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2008, 05:03:14 PM »

Dave
I bought the #3 with the #1 wood. The stocks are interchangeable. I am writing from Yuma, put some adds in the different classifieds or get one carved by Treebone or others. I had a stock set address at home can tell you in about 6 weeks.

thornblom · « **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2008, 11:38:46 PM »

Thanks again Fred.

Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

thornblom · « **Reply #25 on:** March 07, 2008, 08:53:42 AM »

Hey Fred,

Well, I finally found a Ruger #1 butt stock and fore arm for my Ruger #3 on gunbrokers.com. $275 + shipping. It has the beaver tail style fore arm instead of the Alex Henry style like yours. It will arrive next weekend.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Fred M · « **Reply #26 on:** March 13, 2008, 10:53:54 AM »

Dave.
There is enough wood to shape a Alexander Henry fore arm tip. It needs to be cut in any event unless your
gun has a 26" barrel.

Fred

thornblom · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2008, 10:11:05 AM »

Hey Fred,

Sorry for the long dry spell. Work has been keeping me busy six and sometimes seven days a week. About the Ruger #1 stock and fore end I put on my Ruger #3. I have grown to like the long beaver tail fore end on the 22" barrel. It is wider and fuller than the Alex Henry fore end and I can get a good grip on it. That helps with the .375 JDJ cartridge. I just got back from the range where I did some testing of the loads I concocted some months ago. Fireformed .375 brass sized with the sizing die backed out from touching the shell holder 1/4 turn. 53 grains of H-4895, CCI-Br2 primers, 225 grain Hornady .375 caliber spire point seated to COL of 3.075"

I got one 1/2" 3 shot group at 50 yards, and several 3 shot groups at 100 yards that run between 3/4" and 1". Extraction was good and the primers still had a good rounded radius on the edges. According to the previous figures you e- mailed to me the velocity was about 2376 ft/sec and the pressure should have been between 42,000 and 44,000 psi. Muzzle energy is 2820 ft/lbs. I reckon that will do for pretty much I will encounter this side of the pond. Next may, I have a chance to go plains game hunting in Africa, work permitting. Mostly the different species of antelope. This load should suffice form that too. Or maybe up it to 54 grains of H-4895 and just a wee bit over 2400 ft/sec.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom

Fred M · « **Reply #28 on:** June 21, 2008, 12:42:19 PM »

Dave.
Thanks for the update. Last year I worked with the 225gr Hornady with very poor results until I started using H322 with high compression. Using 39.0gr with 112% compression made the rifle finally shoot. Just a bit over 2300 ft and extremely fine accuracy equal to the 200gr 375 Win factory load but much flatter shooting out to 250yrds.. No pressure problems, will try 41gr at 2424ft if I can get the compression up to 116%. The pressure will be just above 60kpsi. With 39.0gr H322 the pressure is quite low.

All in all this wee 375Win turned out to be a quite impressive rifle and the 225gr Hornady bullet will take most anything on 4 feet.

You will perhaps know the 375 Win is rated for 63817psi and the Ruger #3 has no trouble with that pressure. I will maybe settle for something between
41.0gr and 39.0gr H322. But man that rifle got lots of kick to it.

I am glad you found that #1 wood, are you going to revamp the leaver Like I did?

thornblom · « **Reply #29 on:** June 22, 2008, 04:40:25 AM »

Hey Fred,

Yes, I plan to modify the lever some what. If you are not careful, it can hurt bad the way it is now. I have a friend who is an accomplished gunsmith, welder, machinist. I showed him the way you did yours and he has some ideas also, so we will see what he comes up with shortly. Right now I just grip all my fingers on the outside of the lever and try not to get my little finger behind the end of the lever. That is where it can really cut you in recoil.

Sincerely,
Dave (Bubba) Thornblom