Author Topic: OPENING ANOTHER CAN.....25-06 and elk (Read 2020 times)

Nightstalker6117 · « **on:** November 26, 2007, 02:07:53 PM »

OK I gotta ask I know that the never ending question of a 243 or smaller and deer is very controversial so now I am going to start another. I just found out that I am going to get a chance to go elk hunting next year. Now I don't have the money to really go out and buy another barrel/rifle soooooooo I just bought my 25-06 not to long ago and so far LOVE the gun. ......... Here we go is the 25-06 an adequate elk caliber. Here is some info that I know. I am going with some people that have been hunting this area for something like 20 years. They say that most of their shots are within 100 yards. Some out to 2 - 225. I am planning on reloading so i was thinking of loading the X-bullet for the weight retention. That is if they shoot well. I am going to start practicing my shots at 200 yards to get comfortable and hopefully good at those ranges as I am not right now. Any info good or bad I thank you all ready. Stu

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 26, 2007, 02:23:56 PM »

It wouldn't be my first choice, but with premium 115gr-120gr bullets, selective shot placement and angle to 200yds, it would get the job done and has for many.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/why_25-06.htm

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.25-06remington.html

bigjeepman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 26, 2007, 02:42:04 PM »

I am not saying anything about the caliber you are using. I might suggest you start reloading as soon as possible. This will help you get the most out of your rifle and possibly the most out of your hunt. When I started reloading, it greatly increased my interest in better shooting techniques for better accuracy. It added another dimension to my "firearm world" that has really been rewarding for me. If I were you, I'd start by buying and reading reloading books.

Good luck ...

bjm

henry1 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 26, 2007, 02:50:10 PM »

along the same lines as what tim and bjm said. shot placement will have to be perfect with that caliber. I am interested in your bullet choice. please let me know how they work out for you. Im not saying its a good caliber for elk. On that note a .223 will kill an elk. as will 22s arrows rocks and spears. but unless you are an expert (I mean a neandrithal hunter/gatherer) Then you shouldnt use those methods. (im only refering to the spear and rocks, as i have archery hunted for some years now. The .22 wouldnt be a good idea for anyone but im sure its been done.) Anyways, with lots of practice and good loading, you should do fine. Remember your angle must be perfect for this to work. Personaly, I wouldnt do it. Thats why i have my trusty 7mm Mag! I love it but like to use em all if ya know what i mean. but that is the GG. (game getter). Anyways, that just my .02$ thanks for letting me share.
Hank.

trotterlg · « **Reply #4 on:** November 26, 2007, 03:05:59 PM »

I would start trying the x bullet now, they are light for their length, so a heavy x bullet will be very long, may be a problem with getting it stable. I've never been able to get any solid to shoot even close to the way I can get a conventional bullet to shoot. Good luck, when you are looking at a 1,000 pound Elk your 25-06 will feel real small. I would personally just skip one dinner out next year and spend the money on a 30-06 barrel. Larry

dukkillr · « **Reply #5 on:** November 26, 2007, 03:08:14 PM »

It's a dumb idea. It's disrespectful to the animal and reckless. Don't those NEFs only cost a few bucks anyway? I'm not buying that you can't get one, I think you just want to start something.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 26, 2007, 03:13:59 PM »

Quote from: dukkillr on November 26, 2007, 03:08:14 PM

I think you just want to start something.

The man asked an honest question, if anyone's trying to start something, it's you!

Tim

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 26, 2007, 03:27:38 PM »

I hear ya Quick that was kinda my thoughts too ... BJM I can only imagine my problem seems to be WHICH POWDER WHAT BULLET ... lol wow how do you know where to start.... Well So far nothing is set in stone... With a little bit of luck or work I will be able to afford another barrel. I do have a 7.62x54r mosin nagant that I have been messing with but it is not a shooter 2 1/2-3 inch groups @ 100 on a REALLY good day at the bench. If my reloading goes good than i will probably take that I just know that I am more accurate with the 25. PLUS the 7.62 is HEAVY and I am going to be doing alot of hiking (rumor has it)The reason I am thinking of the X-bullet is mainly for the weight retention. I have been using Rem Corelokts for the deer with good results so far but no pass thru's and retention seems to be small at closer ranges which i think is to be expected. I may try partitions too if the X-bullets dont shoot. I have also read about the Swift A-frames but dang I think those are expensive last I checked. Please keep the opinions and/or info coming. Thanks to all. Oh, and henry I hear ya on the rocks and spears I am a bow hunter also. I thought of taking it too :-D ...... and I am sorry but I am not even going to reply to dukkillr's response ... but i did read it DUK .... hahaha ... WOW ............. you know what I gotta say something I was not "TRYING TO START ANYTHING" unless, you are refering to "TRYING TO START" bettering my knowledge and get opinions of people that have alot more experience than me. If that is wrong, than I dont want to be right. (lol aint that a song) and if you must know not everyone has the same budget that alot of these people have on here. I would LOVE to buy another barrel/gun. The NEF is one of my few guns and One of the only guns that I have that was bought new or not a hand-me down. So please if you feel I will ... am not to proud to accept donations for my poor a$$. Anyways thanks for all of your comments all are read and once again thanks for your help. Stu

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2007, 03:31:19 PM »

Quick thanks .... that is all I was trying to do i was typing my replies when i noticed that you had wrote that so thanks.... that kinda caught me off guard hahahha oh well like I said I asked for opinions and that is an opinion lol

dukkillr · « **Reply #9 on:** November 26, 2007, 03:42:58 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on November 26, 2007, 03:13:59 PM

Quote from: dukkillr on November 26, 2007, 03:08:14 PM
I think you just want to start something.

The man asked an honest question, if anyone's trying to start something, it's you!

Tim

Well I'm sitting here considering what I would do if suddenly I got invited on a free elephant hunt. I'd look at the largest gun I've got (300 WM) and decide that I either 1) need a new gun or 2) need to not go. The idiots that run around here trying to kill the biggest animal with the smallest gun always love to argue well, "if you just put a premium bullet in the spot..." Of course that's true. It's true that you can kill an elk with a .17 HMR. Just put that bullet in his eye, temple, maybe heart... hell maybe he'd eat it and get lead poisioning and die. The problem is that it's not efficient, and there's no margin for error. Every human makes errors. That's what makes it wreckless.

The truth is that there are calibers designed to hunt elk, and the 25-06 is not one of them. If can't believe the poster can't come up with another plan, whether it be to buy a new barrel or borrow a gun... Since I can't believe the 25-06 is the only choice, I suspect he's trying to start a fight. (Plus he only has 33 posts). Please not that he asked a question and I answered it.

canon6 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 26, 2007, 03:55:23 PM »

Then I guess all of the elk killed with the 257Roberts, died of old age ,or were killed while laughing themselves silly about being shot with a lowly 1/4incher. my2c Doug

Doug K.A. · « **Reply #11 on:** November 26, 2007, 04:01:13 PM »

Quote from: dukkillr on November 26, 2007, 03:42:58 PM

Quote from: quickdtoo on November 26, 2007, 03:13:59 PM
Quote from: dukkillr on November 26, 2007, 03:08:14 PM
I think you just want to start something.

The man asked an honest question, if anyone's trying to start something, it's you!

Tim

Well I'm sitting here considering what I would do if suddenly I got invited on a free elephant hunt. I'd look at the largest gun I've got (300 WM) and decide that I either 1) need a new gun or 2) need to not go. The idiots that run around here trying to kill the biggest animal with the smallest gun always love to argue well, "if you just put a premium bullet in the spot..." Of course that's true. It's true that you can kill an elk with a .17 HMR. Just put that bullet in his eye, temple, maybe heart... hell maybe he'd eat it and get lead poisioning and die. The problem is that it's not efficient, and there's no margin for error. Every human makes errors. That's what makes it wreckless.

The truth is that there are calibers designed to hunt elk, and the 25-06 is not one of them. If can't believe the poster can't come up with another plan, whether it be to buy a new barrel or borrow a gun... Since I can't believe the 25-06 is the only choice, I suspect he's trying to start a fight. (Plus he only has 33 posts). Please not that he asked a question and I answered it.

I didnt know we judged each other on how many times we have posted

burntmuch · « **Reply #12 on:** November 26, 2007, 04:10:59 PM »

Guys He asked a question. He got an answer. Let it go. Nightstalker. I dont know anything about the 25-06, but Id like to have something that starts with a .3 Jay

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 26, 2007, 04:41:21 PM »

DUK I do agree with what you said ....

Quote from: dukkillr on November 26, 2007, 03:42:58 PM

Since I can't believe the 25-06 is the only choice,

the 25-06 is NOT the only choice .... there are many ... many of which I do not own or can afford at this time. It sounds like if I have to hang out with you before I go I should find a way to get something bigger LOL. Now ....I don't know what you are talking about with the 33 post. If Ronnie Barret signed up and used a different name would you still say the same thing to him if he had a comment or (LOL) a question about a Barrett 50 cal and only had 33 post or 3 or 333333333333333 post. I don't post that much due to my knowledge of these rifles or reloading etc etc. If it were of other topics that I knew more of... you would get more post. Please, I asked for opinions whether bad or good. That my friend is not an opinion that is useless information with comments like that and I would think that everyone would agree you my friend seem to be trying to start something. I appreciate your opinion on that you think that 25 is not a elk caliber and i have taken that into consideration. I will say please do not mix up my bank account and you own. Like I said I would love to be able to buy another rifle BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY THAT. But since as of right now I can I am trying to do the best with what I have and came very proficient with what I have so I can CLEANLY take an animal like I know some people have with the 25-06. So let me say this I guess this would have been a better question. Those that have hunted elk with a 25-06 what is the best info that you can give me. Whether is be bullet selection,equipment... etc. Oh yea and if you will read the links that QUICK had posted you will see that some people with WAY more knowledge say it is a capable 200 yards elk round (in the right hands of course).I think that is what struck my question because I wanted to hear from yall in a newer opinion and possibly real life experiences.

trotterlg · « **Reply #14 on:** November 26, 2007, 04:48:45 PM »

I don't think I would count out the mosin nagant, I carry a 91-59 when I just need to have something that will always work and will kill anything in North America. I have lots of other purpose built guns, but everyone needs a "kill anything" type and that is mine. It is ugly, heavy, and probably the most reliable bolt gun ever built. I use some 180gr RNSP bullets, I just pull down 180gr military and seat the RN bullets, they were made for the British 303. 2 1/2 inch is plenty for an elk, it is like shooting at a 55 gallon drum. I know the people in your hunting party will probably laugh at you, but you should at least take it as a spare. If you decide to use it I will be more than happy to load up a few rounds for you, (free, no selling going on here). Larry

dumgunny · « **Reply #15 on:** November 26, 2007, 04:54:29 PM »

.....Not to beat that proverbial horse BUT, if I remember right, the 25/06 is VERY simular to the .270 Win aint it? I know ol' Jack O'Connor considered that a pretty fine elk ctg.
JMH2¢

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 26, 2007, 04:56:10 PM »

trotterlg .... seriously thanks .... I have some wolf ammo and I wondered if I could pull the bullets and seat something with a heavier soft point. I tried reloading some of my spent casing .... (Boxer primed LOL I do know that much) and the casing were swolen so bad I couldnt close the bolt. I may take you up on that. Thanks again for the help I will post a pic of my mosin. I put a synthetic stock on mine so it looks a little different. still HEAVY lol

KenSel · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2007, 05:00:38 PM »

Well I'm loading up some 100gr. TSX bullets for my 25WSSM and I feel very confident using them on elk. Elk are not bullet proof. Sure 30 cal is better and 33 cal is even better, but the 25 cal is adequate for elk as long as you pick your shots wisely and use a good bullet like the TSX, Partition, A-Frame, etc. Why buy another rifle for one hunting trip? (unless you've been wanting one, then it's a great excuse to get one)

Nightstalker - if you're confident in that rifle and can shoot it well then by all means use it, just choose your shots wisely, use a good bullet, and practice shooting in hunting positions - (most elk won't hang around long enough to let you set up a bench and sandbags)

Best of luck on your hunt, let us know how it goes.

Ken

trotterlg · « **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2007, 05:00:57 PM »

You could do a lot worse for a short range Elk rifle, I just pull the bullet, seat the new one and use a Lee factory crimp die to crimp into the canular. Inside 100 yards they shoot to the same point of aim as the military, so you can practice with the military and save the good stuff for the good stuff. Larry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2007, 05:32:05 PM »

Stu, if you're gonna use factory ammo in the 25-06, get some of the Federal 115gr Nosler partitions, they shoot extremely well in my 25-06 Ultra, plenty good for elk in the conditions you stated. Fred took his moose a year ago with a 100gr TSX from his custom 257 Roberts Ultra, the 25-06 will do well also if use within the parameters mentioned already.

Tim

http://www.federalpremium.com/ballistics/Ammo_Ballistics.aspx?id=221&firearm=1&bc=0.389&muzzvel=2990&bulletwgt=115

Mac11700 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 26, 2007, 07:32:20 PM »

Quote

Here we go is the 25-06 an adequate elk caliber. Here is some info that I know. I am going with some people that have been hunting this area for something like 20 years. They say that most of their shots are within 100 yards. Some out to 2 - 225.

Is it adequate...depends on a number of things...How big the elk...what type of hunting are you going to be doing...what type of terrain is the hunt going to be in...

You have friends who elk hunt...correct...What are they telling you about the cartridge.?

If I had friends who were going to take me...and they tell me they can put me onto elk at those ranges every time...I would have some serious reservations about it to be quite honest...There are no guarantees when it comes to hunting...unless your hunting a game farm or penned animals......I'm sure you have heard this before...It is a Murphy's law...Anything that can go wrong...will go wrong...at the most in opportune time...I know Murphy...and I know him very well...He's a jerk...and if he visits you...you best be prepared to deal with what he gives you...

Can you kill an elk at 200 yards with a 25-06...sure...but ask yourself...is the cartridge capable of making thru the vitals and anchor the animal with all possible shots...what if it's a 300-350 yard shot and he's on the move into heavy timber...and the bull of a lifetime...and the only shot you have is a quartering away angle...one where you have to break massive bones and penetrate 36" to the off shoulder and unable to move to him? Are you capable of not pulling the trigger? It's easy to say you can...when sitting at a desk typing about it...but after a long days climb to get there...your tired...hungry...maybe a little stiff...the light may be starting to fade...and you hit a bowl that he is in......what then...pass up the shot...? You know your a good shot right...after all...you've practiced shooting under these same conditions correct...? Your friends have got you there...what are you going to do?

Yes...many a huge animal has been taken with small cartridges...the list is endless...but...there is another list...one not really publicized...the one of all the wounded and lost animals shot by sub caliber rounds...We aren't talking little 80-90 lb. does...but more like 500-600 lb. on the small side of animal...Yes...I know very well a well placed shot can and has indeed kill many elk with smaller calibers...but...the 25-06 really isn't a bonifide elk caliber...the heaviest 120 grain bullets don't really have the mass to stand up to the size bones a large elk can have...and still penetrate deeply...if needed...

If you can't afford an elk rifle...ask to borrow one of your friends rifles...I am quite sure if they are going to go to the trouble of taking you...they won't have a problem loaning you one of theirs to use...provided you pay for the ammo...

If I had to choose between elk hunting with the 25-06 or staying home...I would be fighting the kids for the TV remote...I won't use a deer & varmint cartridge for hunting elk...Nope...Sorry...If I wanted to go bad enough...I would sell or trade the Handi & the Russian for a used bolt gun...If I wanted to go badly and it have to be with a Handi...I would sell or trade the Russian to get enough for a 270-280-30-06 barrel...simple as that...end of problem...But hey...you do what you want...and good luck in getting it done...I wish you the best...all around...

Mac

burntmuch · « **Reply #21 on:** November 27, 2007, 01:25:15 AM »

Invite me & I ll loan you a 30-06 barrel

Nightstalker6117 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 27, 2007, 03:58:16 AM »

If I had my way I would be more than happy to take all of you....... and use your guns LOL.

Mac ... I love your logic ... it is alot like mine ... How do you know if you are/were not there ... one of the greatest sayings. I did have to pass on a shot while deer hunting this year. I had a 160-170 inch buck on our farm. Biggest deer I have ever seen while hunting but 300 yards out. I will admit I did look at him thru the scope but never put my finger on the trigger. I knew my gun and bullet could do what was needed but me...NOPE.. never shot that far. I will say that I couldnt get out of my stand fast enough to try and stalk closer to this monster LOL. Believe me I am not looking for bragging rights when I asked or thought of using the 25. If I had a bigger round then i would not be asking. I honestly just love this little gun and have heard of many successful elk hunts using the quarter bore. I am sure that the 26 inch barrel might be a problem to pack up and down the mountains but like I said it is my most accurate rifle that I have or should i say the one that I shoot the best. The only reason i haven't sold the mosin is that it was my first rifle. Kinda hard to part with it ya know. And yes, I know nothing is guaranteed we may have a 300 yard 400 yard heck who knows how long of a shot but I don't "PLAN" on having to shoot that far. And hopefully if a shot like that presents itself then I will use the same logic I did with the deer and just be glad I got to see something that big. I will tell you that I am already planning on how I am going to condition myself for this. I plan on doing some hiking and then walking around the farm at a good pace to get my heart rate up and then practicing my shots in the 100-200 yards range from sticks, kneeling, off a tree, and prone. Once again thanks for the info

Oh and Quick I have some of the Hornady SST's in 117gr I didn't know if that would be good for factory ammo or is that to soft of a bullet. I will say if all goes well I will be able to load up some bullets if I get the reloading equipment.

eskimo36 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 27, 2007, 04:26:54 AM »

Shot placement is everything regardless of cartridge used. Knowing where the first bullet goes out of a cold barrel in relation to where your crosshair or sight is sitting when the trigger breaks is crucial. Take the top of the heart off with a 250 Savage or a 300 Ultra Mag or drive a bullet though the ribs and lungs and you will have meat on the ground. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement....

Mac11700 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 27, 2007, 04:39:31 AM »

Yes...shot placement is important...but here is another way of looking at things and maybe it will put what I'm saying in perspective...Many here want a little insurance...If for what ever reason the shot does go astray...which would you rather have hitting the animal from a bad angle...A bullet designed for hunting elk...or a bullet designed for hunting whitetail...? This is what many are meaning with they say to be taking enough gun with you...They...( I ) aren't advocating sloppy shooting with them...but we know...Crap Happens...You won't always get perfect shot placement...even when you think you will...and if some one goes blindly into this what out playing What If......then they aren't covering all the bases...

Mac

dukkillr · « **Reply #25 on:** November 27, 2007, 04:49:41 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700 on November 27, 2007, 04:39:31 AM

Yes...shot placement is important...but here is another way of looking at things and maybe it will put what I'm saying in perspective...Many here want a little insurance...If for what ever reason the shot does go astray...which would you rather have hitting the animal from a bad angle...A bullet designed for hunting elk...or a bullet designed for hunting whitetail...? This is what many are meaning with they say to be taking enough gun with you...They...( I ) aren't advocating sloppy shooting with them...but we know...Crap Happens...You won't always get perfect shot placement...even when you think you will...and if some one goes blindly into this what out playing What If......then they aren't covering all the bases...

Mac

Well said.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** November 27, 2007, 05:03:25 AM »

how much difference is there between a 6.5X55 and a 25-06 ? seems the 6.5 is all the elk rage in Europe !
.15 mm or two thickness of toilet paper !
Try a Nosler Partition or equal and make a well placed shot !
see where you drop below 1000 FT Lb of energy and don't exceed that range , get a range finder to be sure .
Its better to have a well placed shot than miss with a cannon !

buckmaster_kp · « **Reply #27 on:** November 27, 2007, 05:27:54 AM »

The world record elk, forget if its the typical or NT record...but...it was killed with a .30-40 Krag. Just food for thought.

aulrich · « **Reply #28 on:** November 27, 2007, 05:28:34 AM »

I have a couple of buddies who use 25-06 on Elk, there is a but, and that is the only time I see them us it is on a cow hunt. It's OK for that, the first year my friend used that gun, it was a bit of a gong show, the only thing that saved it was a perfect shot (with a 90 gr varmint bullet) or it would have been a disaster. The next time the tag came around, with some proper mentoring, on bullet selection it turned out much different a lung shot again a shot track and an already dead cow elk.

I am not usually a fan of the premium heads but it would be a must with the 25-06 I would even say go directly to barnes.

Now the 7.62 x 54r is no pussy cat, it is pretty much the Russian equivalent to 30-06, I think Norma makes it, but other than that I don't think there is a reputable company out there making it. I have had bad experiences with the funky off shore ammo. The problem being is how many boxes of Norma ammo will it take to pay off a reloading setup.

rex6666 · « **Reply #29 on:** November 27, 2007, 05:32:32 AM »

I would take a 30-06 if possible, but would not hesitate to go with a 25-06.
I am very glad to hear someone finally say they would pass on a shot they didn't
feel good about. I went Elk hunting this year with a 50cal hawkin side lock, KNOWING
i would not shoot at an elk past 125yds with it, now i guess i could have went out and bought
an inline, and planned on 250yds.
It is good to hear people say they have limitations, the man said he was planning on shots out
to 200yds, if he has set his limits, they are his, said he passed on a big deer because it was
300yds. Guess he hasn't posted enough to make that kind of shot, or just needs a larger
weapon then he could make those shots. who are we to tell a man he needs to shoot 300-350
yards, to me their is a lot more to HUNTING than shooting 300-500 yards
FORGOT TO CK AND SEE HOW MANY POST I HAD. sorry if i offended anyone, but if i did you probably needed it