.45 ACP Revolver Shot Shell Loads

[Minnesota1]

Hey guys, just a quick question.  I have a Smith & Wesson model 625 that I like carrying around and plinking around with while I'm in the woods.  I wanted to get some .45 shot shells for it but here is my kunundrum.  As you may know the CCI shotshells work fine in a semi-auto but will jam up a cylinder in a revolver.  CCI tells you not to use it in a revolver but I has to learn the hard way!!  The casings expand forward and completely jam up your cylinder. 

Does anyone have a good, reliable shot load that I can load for the 45 ACP or the 45 auto rim?  I know it can be done because I read an article back a few years ago but as chance and habit would have it I lost it!

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Bob

[Castaway]

You have to find a balance between the mass of the shot and a powder that will drive out the load with enough pressure to allow the case to be driven back with enough umph to reseat the primer and allow you to place a wad overtop of each.  The problem is the primer, upon firing is pushed out of the case.  Under normal circumstances, the case is then driven back against the breech face which in turn reseats the primer.  I've done it by loading a fast powder like Bulllseye which allows enough room overtop for enough shot to create the backwards thrust on the case.  Weigh the charge of each so you don't over charge and make sure you meet the minimum charge for the amount of powder needed for the mass of your "bullet."

[Savage]

Minnesota1,
Are the shot capsules moving forward out of the cases under recoil and locking up the gun? That's what I would normally expect to happen to lock up a revolver. Speer recognizes this as a problem with the bullet pull of the plastic capsule. About the only thing you can do is use gas checks or cardboard wads with a light charge of fast burning powder under a case load of shot.  It's been so long since I loaded shot cartridges for the .45 I don't remember exactly the charge weight of the Bullseye powder I used.
Savage

[Dusty Miller]

For the life of me I can't imagine why anybody would want to carry such a load!

[Castaway]

Snakes Dusty, big rattlesnakes.  Yes, I should be able to whack one with a ball load, but I've missed more than I've ever hit that way.  The shot holds them still for a follow-up.

[Steve P]

What revolver and what cylinder are you using?  Are you using 45acp with moon clips?  Can you use 45 auto rim?  Snake loads are easy to make, but we need to confirm what you are shooting them in. 

Steve 

[coyotejoe]

The ACP case is too short to hold powder, wad and shot as you might load in revolver cartridges. You have to use some sort of shot capsule like the plastic capsules from Speer. I've made some out of paper which shoot OK but are too fragile to carry in a pocket and recoil of a full power ball load will unseat the paper capsule of the shot load. I like your choice of handgun, I had a 1917 which I carried in a shoulder holster for years and durn near cried when it was stolen.

Steve P, please  read the man's original post.

[Steve P]

The ACP case is too short to hold powder, wad and shot as you might load in revolver cartridges. You have to use some sort of shot capsule like the plastic capsules from Speer.

Steve P, please  read the man's original post.

If I cut and pasted this correctly, I think he said......"I have a Smith & Wesson model 625 that I like carrying around and plinking around with while I'm in the woods.  I wanted to get some .45 shot shells for it but here is my kunundrum.  As you may know the CCI shotshells work fine in a semi-auto but will jam up a cylinder in a revolver.  CCI tells you not to use it in a revolver but I has to learn the hard way!!  The casings expand forward and completely jam up your cylinder. 

Does anyone have a good, reliable shot load that I can load for the 45 ACP or the 45 auto rim?  I know it can be done because I read an article back a few years ago but as chance and habit would have it I lost it!"

My reply was....."What revolver and what cylinder are you using?  Are you using 45acp with moon clips?  Can you use 45 auto rim?  Snake loads are easy to make, but we need to confirm what you are shooting them in. "

OK, I am not an expert at all of the guns S&W made.  I can assume that a 625 is a blue version of a 626 which is their stainless 357 revolver.  But then why would he be shooting 45 acp in a 357 revolver?  So I asked information on which revolver and which cylinder he is using.  Shooting a revolver with 45acp brass and moon clips will take a different recipe than a 45 revolver shooting 45 auto rim brass and both are different than a 45LC recipe.   I may not get a shot shell made that can feed or cycle a semi-auto.  I can certainly make one with either 45acp, 45 auto rim, or 45LC to shoot in a revolver. I have shot shells for all of my revolvers.  I have yet to lose one due to recoil.  Shot lots of snakes, birds, and squirrels too.  Not real accurate beyond about 20 feet, but what shot load in a revolver is?

Steve 

[coyotejoe]

It seems you still haven't read it. He specifically said ".45 ACP or .45 Auto rim" and no, they do not require different cylinders. The auto rim cartridge was produced to eliminate the need for moon clips in the 1917 revolvers. The exception would be Taurus .45 ACP revolvers which use a Taurus moon clip that is much thinner steel than the old standard clips and in Taurus revolvers the auto rim ammo won't fit, although shortened .45 Colt cases can be made to work in the Taurus.

[stimpylu32]

Steve

The 625 is the SS match for the blue mod 25 which comes in 45 auto or 45 colt , not the blue match for the 626 , 357 mag. , i too think the 45 Auto rim may be a better choice to handload shot shells with , it will give you some more shot room and you will not have the need for 1/2 or full moon clips .

just my .02 worth .

stimpy

[John Traveler]

In the pre-Speer shot capsule days, I made cylinder-length cases from .444 Marlin or resized and cut down .30-06 and .308 Win cases.  The rimless cases were held in half moon clips and required an additional step to neck down to fit the cylinder bores.  This was done using a ground off .44 Magnum sizing die. Size until the case seats properly on the chamber headspacing step.

.410 plastic wads were cut off using a razor blade, and overshot wads were cut from cardboard milk cartons.  Use a powder charge for mild comparable weight bulleted load.  Crimp case mouth using a short .44 seating die or a drop of candlewax or beeswax to seal the overshot wad to the case mouth.

These loads were cooked up by a wildcat experimenter named Harvey, I believe.  Inventor of the .22 Harvey K-Chuck.  He fired them in converted smoothbored M1917 S&W and Colt revolvers until the BATF ruled that smoothbored pistols were a violation of the 1934 National Firearms Act.  They are still legal shot loads, but must be used in pistols with at least SOME rifling.

[Czech_too]

There is, I think, a very interesting article on this at
http://www.surplusrifle.com/articles2008/frc_hippocketsnakegun/index.asp

[Castaway]

Let me complicate the issue some more.  I've cut down 30-06 brass to the length of a loaded 45 ACP wadcutter, then ran the brass through a 40 S&W sizing die to set a shoulder for the cartridge to headspace on.  It was so long ago I forgot to mention it in my original post.  That gives enough room to load powder and enough shot to shoot without the primer blowing back and locking up the cylinder.

[coyotejoe]

Czech-too, that is a good article. I have gone through the exact same process many years ago. If you enjoy the process of making up speciality loads it is a good one which will keep you occupied for a while. Now-a-days, I'd just buy a box of CCI shotshells. They are a bit spendy, about a dollar a pop, but how many will you actually use? From a cost vs bother perspective making up such loads ain't worth it, unless, as I said, you just enjoy the process.

[Steve P]

It seems you still haven't read it. He specifically said ".45 ACP or .45 Auto rim" and no, they do not require different cylinders. The auto rim cartridge was produced to eliminate the need for moon clips in the 1917 revolvers. The exception would be Taurus .45 ACP revolvers which use a Taurus moon clip that is much thinner steel than the old standard clips and in Taurus revolvers the auto rim ammo won't fit, although shortened .45 Colt cases can be made to work in the Taurus.

Well, I am not gonna argue with you.  You obviously care more to argue with me over your BS vs helping the guy. 

Bob, did you get info to make up some shot shells?  If not, send me an email and I will get you some info to help you out. 

Steve

[Steve P]

Steve

The 625 is the SS match for the blue mod 25 which comes in 45 auto or 45 colt , not the blue match for the 626 , 357 mag. , i too think the 45 Auto rim may be a better choice to handload shot shells with , it will give you some more shot room and you will not have the need for 1/2 or full moon clips .

just my .02 worth .

stimpy

Thanks for the info.  Of the two, 45acp vs auto rim, I too would choose the auto rim to make shot shells.  I would also see how well the 45LC or other rimmed brass may work.  Longer brass will give a little more room for shot.

Steve 

[Minnesota1]

I made up a successfull 45 auto load from info given using 3.5 gr. of Bullseye, and a thin over powder wad cut from a shotgun box and 115 grains of #9 shot and over shot wad from the shotgun box topped with gorilla glue!  I tried elmer's glue but it would not hold the wad under recoil!!  I am now going to use the auto rim case to load my shells and it should be even better.  With the acp I had to use the moonclips in order for it to work. I did make a slight crimp over the over shot wad and then finished off with Gorilla glue-Elmers was useless glue--Do Not Use!

Thanks for all your help and information.

Bob

[Castaway]

Steve P.  Not sure if you meant you were going to use 45 Colt cases for a 45 Colt pistol or were going to try it in your 45 ACP shooter.  Even if you trim the case, the rim isn't thick enough to properly headspace the cartridge.

[Steve P]

My Colts and ACPs are totally different.  I only have semi-autos that shoot the ACPs.  45LC in Contender or Revolver.  Gas checks work in some brass to hold the shot, above, below, or both.  Some mild loads uses gas check below the shot, then the shot, then parafin wax to hold the shot in place.  With the ACP some brass has a taper as you get closer to the flash hole.  The wad closer to the flash hole may need to be smaller diameter than the case opening wad. Not all wads will work the same.  Some folks have experienced bulged chambers from excess pressures generated by fiber wads.  I have not experienced this myself, but this is what I was told.   I have had ok success some of the wads made for black powder revolvers years ago, but have not tried some of the newer stuff.

Good luck, load and shoot safe.

Happy Holidays to all.

Steve