308 for moose?

[John Y Cannuck]

This topic generated a lot of heat for Coug a while (long while, another forum) back. So I thought I'd revisit it.
Do you feel the 308 is enough for Moose, and why?

[Graybeard]

 Hi John. Jist wait til ol Coug finds out his favorite subject has been brought up again.    He'll love it. Oh Coug tell us how ya REALLY FEEL about it.  :-D

GB

[Rick Teal]

Of course it is!

I've seen a lot of moose killed quickly and cleanly with bullets of this class including the .303 British, .270, 30-06 and the .308 itself.  I know of many others taken with cartridges like the 7X57, .300 Savage, .35 Remington and even the 30-30.  One of the poorest performers I've ever seen was a .300 WinMag shooting partitions.

Simple observation indicates that the .308 is all that is needed.

(Now that you've bought a .308, does it mean you aren't considering a .358 any more?)

[John Y Cannuck]

Ok Rick, You exposed me! I'm using the 308 for moose. (for now), or 45-70, or 303 Epps. Once the (spousal) heat is off I'll get the 358. Your right Rick, a lot of guys use the 303, in fact, in our camp, we had until recently two guys using 30-30's! Successfully too, no premiums, just factory stuff. Doesn't make it right though. They were concerned enough to step up to 308's. and in our camp of eight, there is one '06, one 303, and six 308's. I used to use a 338WM. But I also used to hunt where I could see 1000 yards. (I wouldn't shoot that far) I don't any more, the moose I see now will be a lot closer, probably inside 100.

[Rick Teal]

John:

In my camp, 30-06's tend to predominate, but there are a couple of .308's, 2 Whelens, my .358 and a .338 WM.  The guy with the .338 says he carries it because he owns it and if he doesn't carry it for moose, would never use it.  He has a .338/06 as backup, and thinks that is all he really needs for moose in the country we hunt.

Rick

[John Y Cannuck]

My 338 was a Browning Stainless Stalker with a Leopold scope. Great gun for standing watch, Not so great for walking, unless you use the sling. Of course on the sling, the scope fills with snow and rain unless covered, and then it fogs up. I like to have the gun at the ready. For this, I find most scoped bolt guns, awkward to carry. I like lever guns.
Coug hasn't appeared, now where did that little chicken icon go....
 :lol:

[bearhuntr]

Don't know why your bud endured so much "heat" as you say. The 308 is a more than able round. Shooting 200 grain noslers or the like will kill any moose easily. They are a lot easier to kill than some smaller animals. The vital target is larger and (at least in my area,) they are not too spooky. 100 yard and in shots are the norm, although this round will do the job to 200 easily.
BTW, the 358 is an awesome round as well.
JMTCW.
best,
bhtr

[coug2wolfs]

GB baited me here!  He went and posted in the pigpen that "my favorite" subject was in debate again :wink:

Is the 308 enough gun for moose?  Depends.  On the size of the moose, and, who's doin the shootin.  That's about as fair as I can get with the question direct.

Like GB, I'm in my final transition with firearms.  Not because I want to be, but because I have to be.  A lot of years shooting the big stuff has broken me down, pretty much wrecked the right shoulder beyond repair.

I sincerely HOPE the 308 is enough since the BLR 308 is what I packed all season.  Can say for sure it's wicked on deer :wink:

The "press" is good on the 7mm-08, and if the 308 will do it, maybeso the 7mm, I dunno.

A moose is one of two animals.  Either he's dumb as a stump, stands there and gets shot close up, or, he's elusive, flighty, and pumped up with adrenalin so you NEED a cannon to break him down.

If I were to make a trip to Alaska for the BIG moose, I'd feel some undergunned with a 308.  Don't mean it wouldn't work, just means I'd be real particular on when and where I shot.  That's only fair to the animal.  I'd feel better with a 338, perhaps ported so's I could shoot it without blowin the rest of the shoulder of mine out, but, that's me.

I believe MANY moose have been killed clean with 30-30 guns because that's what was in hand when Mr Moose showed up.  I also believe many have been hit with 30-30's and have been chased, and or lost.  Maybe the same can be said for a host of other calibers as well.

If a good construted bullet is dropped into the boiler room of a moose it is indeed a dead moose pdq.  The bullet has to get in at least, and so I'd kind of rule out the 22 Hornet :lol:

So if you guys were expectin a big brew ha ha about this thread......ain't gonna happen.  Not today anyways, maybeso tomorrow when I think on it some

Coug

[John Y Cannuck]

Why Coug, you've melowed. :eek:
I think the main problem with using smaller calibers for moose, is people that take those long shots. In moose territory, you do run across the occassional half mile or longer swamp for example. Now a shot that long is possible, but the terminal performance of the 308 that far out, on a moose, is pretty questionable, and the shot placement for most hunters probably is too.

[coug2wolfs]

The 308 penetrated deeper than the 300 win mag.

I can believe that because:

The higher speeds expand the bullet faster.  The faster and bigger it expands, the quicker the brakes are put on.  Only makes sense.

The other end of the problem tells us no expansion makes for the deepest penetration, but it don't wreck as much and kill as quick.

A 308 can out kill a 300 Mag if the 308 uses the right bullet, the 300 mag the wrong one.  Do not make the foolish assumption that with the RIGHT bullet in the mag that the 308 is its equal, it sure is not.

Coug

[John Y Cannuck]

I think Lyman did a test, might be in the old cast bullet handbook.
They had a 30-30 with hard cast bullet, out penetrating a 30-06 factory load.
Personaly, I have shot end to end through a deer with the 30-30 and a cast bullet, so I believe it. That said, if the comparison had been a handloaded  '06, with barnes X, or Nosler partition the results might have varied a bit.  :wink:

[Daveinthebush]

Two of my former students in Elim AK killed a moose with 2 -  20 gauge shots (no. 6 shot) and 7 - .22 lr shots. :?

[John Y Cannuck]

Both of which (22, and #6shot) are very illegal here, (Ontario) and I hope most other places, for moose.

[Daveinthebush]

Sometimes I don’t provide as much information as is needed so I figure I had better explain the whole story here:

The two boys, 9 & 14 were out spruce hen hunting when they came upon a young moose. They had with them a .22 and a 12 gauge. And yes they killed the moose!  The two boys lived on the Bering Coast of Alaska and were Eskimo.  They were from a family of 5, three adopted children and the parents, in there 80’s.  There are no orphans in the Eskimo villages, the elders here, had taken in all three of the children.  There was no income except welfare that I know of, no employment.  

The dad, a great guy and elder, I consider a friend.  Once I was walking to fish camp, about 11 miles out, and he found me on the trail as he was returning.  He asked me where I was going and I told him fishing, that I was walking because the school would not let us use the 4-wheelers that belonged to the school.  I wanted to fish!  He drove all the way back to the village, bought some gas and came all the way back out to give me a ride. At fish camp, he found a young man, and told the young man to take me fishing up river for the remainder of the day. Made my day for me.

The two boys were considered heroes as they had provided their family with the winter meat.  The dad only knew one thing: hunt, fish, trap and pick berries.  He had lived off the land his whole life and knew nothing else. The boys had helped the family out and were proud of the accomplishment. The boys, knew enough that hunting regulations or not, they had a bigger obligation.  The family. They did what had to be done and did it.

As a white man in a different culture I was not going to say anything to the students that would dampen their pride.  I did however, upon leaving the village in mid-winter, give the eldest boy all of my 12 gauge slugs with my best wishes.  

Two years ago the older boy lost four toes in a whiteout that lasted three days.  He went off a snow machine trail and he and the brother camped in snow banks while waiting out the storm and or rescue. He was a good kid!

I hope this clears the air a bit. In some cultures animals are treated differently than most of us are taught to believe.  In this situation, in this place, animals have no feelings. It is a cultural issue. :bird:  :yeah:

[dabigmoose]

Its not the norm but young village residents will take a Moose that
presents it self as table fare By any means possible. Moose meat is
a welcomed meal in the winter. I am sure the Village Elders talked to them as well being concerned for their safety . But at the same time were happy and proud about the Meat.

 Elim use to be called Nuviakchak which is a Native village on the
Norton sound area Pop 306. It became a federal reindeer reserve in 1911. . When the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA) was passed in 1971, Elim decided not to participate, and instead opted for title to the 298,000 acres of land in the former Elim Reserve.

91.7% of the population are Alaska Natives. A federally recognized tribe is located in the community. It is an Inupiat Eskimo village with a fishing and subsistence lifestyle. So they kinda Hunt as they see fit too and some of the kids take game as oppurtunity allows. Its not the norm or for sport but to Eat as they do not believe in Sport hunting. Alaska law does allow Alaska Natives (Indians) to use the 22 rim fire in certain units to shoot swimming Caribou from a Motorized Boat.They do not receive Welfare
or so the called Native Corporation Checks.  

dabigmoose

[Daveinthebush]

In 2000, they won back 50,000 more acres that were taken away by some President of the US, that believed that the white trappers could not compete with the natives. It is a beautiful area. Lots of gold too.

One elder always told me: Our land is free; hunt, fish, camp, hike......just don't pan for gold! :shock: Who me!

Great people up there on the coast.

It is kind of hard to explain things up here at times. Thanks for the help Dabigmoose.

[dabigmoose]

Your welcome Dave
  A lot of folks dont relize that there is really no road system in Alaska
and its like stepping back in time a hundred years or so when
ya go to one of these villages.Thats what makes Alaska and Canada
wilderness Areas so unique.Ya get lost there are no roads or farm houses to run across you can die out there and  it happens.
Dabigmoose

PS the 308 drops a lot of moose every year in Alaska and other game.

[John Y Cannuck]

dabigmoose
Is it true up there, as it is down here, that the roads push further north every year? That the city folk with thier ATV's and snowmobiles push further and further into the true wilderness? That the loggers make roads that let those who would not walk, drive way back into God's country?
We lost a big chunk of hunting territory a few years ago when this "progression" cut us off from a chunk of crown land we hunted.
Watch for it, it hurts.