HITTING YOUR TARGET

[EDELWEISS]

We had a Police shooting yesterday.  I dont have many facts, except that, the Officer rolled up on a couple of citizens who were "re-distributing" property from someone else's car into their pockets... and they took exception to the Officer interfering in their work.  One of the two fired a shot at the Officer and missed.  The Officer also fired back and missed as well.  After a long search both were captured.  This brings to mind a issue I have been pondering for some time.  It seems to be in the "revolver days", cops at least didnt seem to miss as much, and they certainly didnt fire as many shots without a hit.

I KNOW there are lots of reasons, not the least that in "those" days most cops at least had shooting experience BEFORE coming onto "the job".  Im not faulting the Officer, I dont have any of the facts of the shooting, its more a question of ratio of hits to shots fired in a particular encounter.  A deadly encounter being what it is, means missed shots equals time for the "bad guy" hit you, plus a Whole lot of "where did your missed bullets go?".

We qualify twice a year, with open range time every month, but qualification is 38 hits out of 50 on a FBI type "Q" target at various distances, but all standing.  We've started some "Simunition" training which helps.  Ultimately any self defense shooting is reactionary, after the "badguy" attacks and hardly any shots from a perfect ready position.

Were we better shots in the "revolver days" ?

[jhm]

And I would be willing to bet that was before they passed a law that said a officer wasnt allowed to SHOOT a fleeing fellon, no such rule exist for the BG.  I feel that the police have one arm tied behind their backs as far as that law goes, no matter what kind of weapon he is using, and Im sure their are going to be some who will state that the law was to stop the ROUGE cop from just shooting and then saying he thought the BG was going to shot, well with that I say we have more BGs than ROUGE cops.   JIM

[EDELWEISS]

I cant fault your logic, it just seems to me hi-capacity autos have led the way to lots of misses on the Police side.  Surely theres more to it than that but I for one would like the option of a revolver, even knowing its my 6 vs. the "Bad Guys's" 15+.  At least then I better know where my 6 are going.  Frankly 38 hits out of 50 shots to qualify is only 76% and thats kinda sad and a statement on where we are as a profession.  Seems like qualification ought to be more than twice a year too; but you should hear the groans from most of the qualification classes.

[Dusty Miller]

I'll bet they groan when they get shot too!!

[rockbilly]

Our local police force is relatively small, even so, I was amazed at the number of cops on the force that had never fired a firearm until they enrolled in the police academy.  I have also been amazed at the lack of firearm knowledge displayed by many of the local cops, get away from their duty gun and some don't even know how to remove a magazine.  I had a big laugh at one for referring to a Marlin, model 60, .22 rifle as an assault weapon.  I have watched a few of them at the range, and pray that I never have to rely on them to shoot for me.

[williamlayton]

Anything I say is going to be misunderstood and appear argumentative--but here goes anyway.
Folks this is a good example of jumping too conclusions.
Read the statement--I don't have many facts--.
How all of this went down, the officers competency, his position when returning fire--- even if it was a revolver or semi-auto--are unknowns.
His return fire could have been from numerous positions or even a sparked reaction (without aim)---we don't know.
Some guys are good and miss---some are bad, and, get lucky.
Blessings

[Savage]

No doubt there were fewer shots fired in police shootings in the revolver days. Doubt that the hit ratio was any higher. Just fewer shots fired in an engagement, due to the number of rounds available. The average duty load with a revolver is usually 6 in the gun and 12 on the belt. Now days it can run from a low of 25 rds for a single stack to 50 or so rounds with a double stack. Most departments probably don't do much "Force on Force" training. Without that kind of training, the stress of a "Fight or Flight" situation, who knows where the weapon was pointed when the trigger was pulled. The same was true in the revolver days, the majority of LE were not shooters. I would venture that they generally didn't shoot better, they just shot less! Of course in those days, you didn't hear about every shot fired 10 minutes afterward like you do now days. No telling how many misses by officers were never heard about in even the next county!
Savage