Author Topic: Texas man shoots burglars??  (Read 5698 times)

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Offline DakotaElkSlayer

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #90 on: December 14, 2007, 06:25:09 PM »
?
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.

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Offline williamlayton

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #91 on: December 15, 2007, 12:21:29 AM »
They had no handguns,
They had a crowbar and screwdriver--couple of other burglar tools.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline ironglow

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #92 on: December 15, 2007, 01:14:40 AM »
 
   A couple points:
 
   1) They should have been working for a living..like most everyone else is.

   2) If they had "been where they belonged"..not in a stranger's house and not in the US, but in their country of citizenship  they wouldn't be dead.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #93 on: December 15, 2007, 03:17:24 AM »
   I can agree that it is a "close call", TM ..of course, I still wish Jim Horn well..

   Surprised we haven't heard from Jesse or Al yet..must been no money lawsuit involved...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #94 on: December 15, 2007, 04:29:39 AM »
It is not a matter of doing what the law allows.
It is being able to do what is necessary.
Now, not making assumptions, but, I think that if someone were willing to break into my house OR my neighbors house He/She has already earned MY distrust---I should not have the need too allow this/these people to prove too me that they might hurt me--I would already be assuming that.
I am not going too give a guy a break just in case he wasn't going too hurt me.
I am going too assume he is a bad person---from the evidence--and I am not going too give him the chance get over on me.
You do it your way----first time is shame on you and the second time is shame on me.
Blessings
 
On this WL, we definitely have common ground. Common sense is the rule of the day, is it not? ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Almtnman

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #95 on: December 15, 2007, 06:09:41 AM »
Just wondering what any body's thoughts are, on the neighbor in Pasadena,TX., that shot the 2 burglars. I believe that if that would have taken place here in Ohio, they would hang him out to dry. Since there was apparently no threat to him personally, and he went out of his house to confront the thieves, he put himself into danger. Not sure if Texas has a ''Castle Doctrine'' law in effect or not.
From the reports, the perps were on his property, havn't heard if they had threatened him or not. This is going to be a tough one to call. Glad I'm not on the grand jury. I don't think I could find him guilty of any thing. And I know the race card is going to play out here, as it looks from the reports, he is white, and the burglars were black.   gypsyman

I wouldn't mind having him for a next door neighbor. And last I heard Texas does have the Castle Doctrine law as do a lot of other conservative states including the one I live in. Maybe after some of those low life's find out that they can be shot on sight for threatening people, the crime wave will cool off some. But as long as they continue to do the crime and not work for a living like most folks do, well they might expect to be dealt with accordingly.  8)
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Offline Almtnman

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #96 on: December 15, 2007, 06:17:20 AM »


Anyway...Jeff Wentworth was on TeeVee last night...he's the Texas Legislator primarily the author/sponsor of Texas' Castle Doctrine Law. What he said is Horn's actions were a stretch of the intent/letter of the law. The CD Law allows deadly force to be used in your home, in your car, and in your place of work he explained  The operative word here is in.  That was his opinion...the case is a close call he said. I wish Jim Horn well.

...TM7

He needs to read the law again as it says anywhere you have a legal right to be. I don't think he was the original author of it either as the Castle Doctrine law was adapted by other states from the one Florida originated. He probably sponsored it in his legislature. Here's a snippet of what the Castle Doctrine law states in my state and it was taken from the Florida Castle Doctrine law.

Quote
Law-abiding citizens now have the choice to defend themselves and their families in the face of attack without fear of criminal prosecution and civil litigation."

The "Castle Doctrine" bill removes the "duty to retreat" if an individual is attacked in his or her home, vehicle, place of business, or any other place he or she has a legal right to be. This legislation also states that victims may use necessary force to defend themselves against the attacker.

So it looks like to me that standing in my yard, public sidewalk, roadway or wherever I was without trespassing would cover it.
AMM
The Mountain
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."~~Thomas Jefferson

Offline ironglow

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #97 on: December 15, 2007, 09:03:25 AM »

  Almtnman;

        That law as you quoted it in your last sentence..is the essence of common sense !
 
  Here in the state of state of NY, I don't know if our legislators lack common sense, courage or decency, but the homeowner is
   by law, obliged to retreat in the face of an outlaw bent on terror.

    My only hope if ever faced with such, is that one must be convicted by his peers. My peers in this rural county are in general, more blessed
   with common sense than those "big city" areas...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #98 on: December 15, 2007, 09:09:43 AM »
 
   A couple points:
 
   1) They should have been working for a living..like most everyone else is.

   2) If they had "been where they belonged"..not in a stranger's house and not in the US, but in their country of citizenship  they wouldn't be dead.
.
That might be true, but is kind of a sidebar discussion or rationalization of the way things turned out.

Anyway...Jeff Wentworth was on TeeVee last night...he's the Texas Legislator primarily the author/sponsor of Texas' Castle Doctrine Law. What he said is Horn's actions were a stretch of the intent/letter of the law. The CD Law allows deadly force to be used in your home, in your car, and in your place of work he explained  The operative word here is in.  That was his opinion...the case is a close call he said. I wish Jim Horn well.

...TM7

TM7, Jeff is getting air time. He didn't draw up S#*+%/. The Texas State Rifle Ass. Helped push the Castle Doctine thru, and it was an adaptation of the Fl. Law.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Chilachuck

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #99 on: December 15, 2007, 09:16:00 AM »
TM7, reply 90,

Soros crashed the British economy forcing a devaluation of the British pound, and really messing up the British economy. He is suspected of destroying the economies of a few other countries, for his profit. Soros has probably destroyed more lives than anyone short of the ruler of a country.

Soros also is in favor of universal gun control.

I wonder why.

Offline Almtnman

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #100 on: December 15, 2007, 10:20:49 AM »

  Almtnman;

        That law as you quoted it in your last sentence..is the essence of common sense !
 
  Here in the state of state of NY, I don't know if our legislators lack common sense, courage or decency, but the homeowner is
   by law, obliged to retreat in the face of an outlaw bent on terror.

    My only hope if ever faced with such, is that one must be convicted by his peers. My peers in this rural county are in general, more blessed
   with common sense than those "big city" areas...

ironglow, I really hate it that the state you reside in doesn't do more to help citizens. I have several friends in NY state that I have emailed with for many years and they're a great bunch of people, but the politicians there seem to think that protecting oneself and their family should be done by LE, which as you and I both know, they can't be everywhere at the same time. My state was fortunate enough to bring the Castle Doctrine law into law last year and they drafted our castle doctrine law here by the one that Florida had brought into effect just prior to that. Since that time, many other states have jumped on the band wagon and got it also. It's a good law, in that it allows innocent law abiding citizens to protect themselves without fear of some zealous DA or ambulance chaser trying to trump up charges against them for merely protecting their life. We did have one or two legislators that squawked about it saying that it was nothing but something for vigilantes, but that hasn't been the case at all.
AMM
The Mountain
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."~~Thomas Jefferson

Offline ironglow

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #101 on: December 15, 2007, 05:08:54 PM »
   Almtnman;
 
   It is tragic, but as I have often said here..we in the rural areas of NY are outvoted by the "big cities" and those big cities have many who are on the govt dole,
   so they vote much different than you or I.
  The state is shown on the map as a blue state..but if the true colors showed, it would be a red state with dark blue spots at NY City, Albany, Utica, Syracuse,
  Rochester & Buffalo..the rest would be quite red. Unfortunately, the blue spots have more voters that the rest of the state.
   We elect good congressmen from our districts..but our two senators are the pits..Chuckie Schumer & Hitlary..

  Chilachuck;

   You have exposed a seemingly rarely known truth! Soros in his greed, did significant damage to the British economy and nearly destroyed smaller nations.

   Soros doesn't like the United States as we like it..he doesn't like guns, Christians, morality and many other things that made this country great..he is doing his best to change it
   
   into  a liberal sin pit.  Tragically, the National Democratic party/candidatesare all too willing to help him. He is the major funds provider for    < moveon.org > and Airhead America
     
   radio and many of his political puppets..

   I would suppose that if he cannot get his willing puppets (Democrats) into the oval office..he may just do what he can to financially to ruin us !

    Something to think about !
 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline nomosendero

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #102 on: December 15, 2007, 06:04:20 PM »
This case won't go to trial, it will go to GRAND JURY, and that will be the end of it. All the DA has to prove is intent on the behalf of the burglars and they are paid for in Texas.
This isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened down here, just the first time so many have heard about it.

We heard about because they were illegals & not white. If they had been white punks that needed the same thing, we wouldn't heard a thing.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #103 on: December 15, 2007, 09:43:22 PM »
My view:  The man in Texas was justified.  Any one stupid enough to commit a crime against another man or woman should realize the risk they are taking and the possible consequences.  They should all be shot, period. 

When I started my first job at a large grocery store in Tennessee, the manager had a long talk with me about the fact that the store was robbed regular, and to make sure I knew what I was getting myself into working the evening shift as a cashier.  The store was in a rough part of Nashville.  Two months after I started working there, one night as I counted the money in one of the drawers in the front office.  The manager told me to duck, I noticed he had his .45 Colt in his hand.  I ducked and he fired, killing a man standing there holding a gun on one of the cashiers.  I was scared but I understood what had just happened, and felt the manager had just saved the cashiers life.  I did not feel one bit sorry for the robber.  As we stood there waiting for the police to show up, the manager told me his view, that to always shoot to kill.  The one time he did not, the man got up and cut him bad with a knife.  The following year I had been promoted to stock manager myself, and the owner required that I go armed since I was now a manager.  I was working one night, and as I came from the meat dept. to the main office in the rear of the store, there stood a man with a gun on the store owner.  I quietly slid out on the top of a cooler display case, looking down on the guy.  I very calmly said  "Ha", the guy spun around and shot the case.  My bullet hit him high in the chest, angling down, he stepped forward one step and fell.  The following day the manager shot the man's brother, when he came in looking for me.  My case went to the Grand Jury, some hot shot new Assistant DA, said the store had too bad a record of killing would be robbers.  He wanted to prosecute this case.  The ADA claimed I shot the man in cold blood.  The Grand Jury said since he fired first I was justified, then laughed the ADA out of the court room when he did not agree.  The ADA tried to take it to a second Grand Jury, till the State Attorney General told him to back off.  But the publicity this case drew helped out the store.  Criminals shied away from the store, knowing the manager would shoot them in a heart beat.  Also, the customers felt safer knowing we were armed and would not put up with robbers.  Back then we cashed a lot of payroll checks, so a lot of money flowed through that store.

A year later two days before I quite to go into the Air Force, I was forced to use that gun again.  I made the daily deposits to the bank everyday for the store, and the drug store next door.  I then picked up the cash for daily operations for both stores.  I delivered the case bag to the grocery store, then took the second case bag to the drug store.  After giving the money to the drug store manager I went over to the lunch counter to talk to a new girl working there.  Suddenly the girl I was talking to screamed, I turned and saw a man running away with the money bag I had just given the manager.  The manager was lying on the floor, and I could see blood on her face.  I ran out the nearest door, drawing my pistol as I ran.  I came out on the sidewalk right behind the guy.  I yelled at him, he twisted around bringing his gun up as he turned.  I just pointed and shot, never bringing my gun higher than my waist.  I hit the guy, he screamed and dropped the money bag as he fell against a car.  The guys in the car grabbed his arms and pulled him into the car as it drove away.  I picked up the money bag and returned to the store.  The drug store manager had a cut on her face and a broken jaw from being hit with a gun in the face.  She was in hysterics, screaming and trying to talk.  The young woman had ran away from the scene in panic,(she quite and never came back).  A customer was trying to take care of the manager and had called the police.   When the police came I gave them my statement.  Later that evening I heard that, Two hours later the police had found the car abandoned in a parking lot at the Old Hickory dam.  The man in the back seat had bled to death.  I was never again contacted by the police or anyone about the incident. 
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
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A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #104 on: December 15, 2007, 11:42:33 PM »
Let's make some distinction here.
The castle doctrine, as I understand it, has nothing too do with what Texas Law already provided.
The Castle doctrine is for the prevention of CIVIL liabilities Not determining what law has provided for the individual.
The Castle doctrine provides relief from civil suits---being SUED not being Prosecuted for a felony.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Almtnman

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #105 on: December 16, 2007, 07:58:36 AM »
“CASTLE DOCTRINE” BILLS

1.  They remove the duty to retreat from an aggressor using force or deadly force under certain circumstances.  The states vary in how broadly this applies. For example, Alaska expands the types of premises where a person does not have a duty to retreat when using force in defense of self to include any place the person resides, a place where he is a guest, and his workplace.  The Alaska law also applies to protecting a child or member of the person's household, regardless of location.

2. Kansas removes the duty to retreat from its use of force statutes and adds a general statement that a person not engaged in illegal activity who is attacked in a place where he has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and meet force with force.

3. Some states add a legal presumption about when a person is justified in using force against intruders. For example, Florida added a presumption that a person using force had a reasonable fear of death or serious injury to himself or another if (a) the person against whom he used force was illegally and forcefully entering a dwelling or occupied vehicle, was in the process of doing so, or removed or was attempting to remove a person against his will and (b) the person using force knew or had reason to believe this was occurring. These presumptions, which vary by state, have exceptions and do not apply under specified circumstances, such as when (a) the person force is used against had a right to be in the dwelling or was a lawful resident, (b) the person using force was engaged in illegal activity, or (c) the person force is used against is a law enforcement officer performing his duties who identified himself or the person using force knew or should have known the person was an officer.

4. Some states, such as Florida, include a presumption that a person who illegally or forcefully enters or attempts to enter a dwelling or occupied vehicle is presumed to be doing so with intent to commit an illegal act involving force or violence.

5. Many of the bills provide immunity from criminal prosecution for a person who legally uses force or deadly force. This can apply to arrest, detention in custody, charging, and prosecuting. Some also specify that law enforcement is authorized to use standard procedures to investigate but cannot arrest the person unless there is probable cause that the use of force was unlawful.

6. Many also provide immunity from civil actions for a person who is justified in using force or deadly physical force. They require a court to award reasonable attorney's fees, costs, compensation for lost income, and expenses if the court finds that the person acted lawfully and is immune from prosecution.

--from here:

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/rpt/2007-R-0052.htm
AMM
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"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."~~Thomas Jefferson

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #106 on: December 19, 2007, 09:38:46 AM »
Folks, shooting someone is not a pleasant affair--it leaves scars, and tears--it is not easy to live with.
The fact is we need too go out there--we need to stand up. We need to do what we need to do.
It will take a bit of time but I believe and I pray that recovery will be forthcoming.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #107 on: December 19, 2007, 09:42:44 AM »
then it could be a dog and pony show !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dee

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #108 on: December 20, 2007, 04:15:35 PM »
I love speculation. It leads to,,,,,,,,it leads to,,,,,,,,,it leads to, NOTHING.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #109 on: December 21, 2007, 02:53:20 AM »
O'tay !
got the NRA magazine , and guess what some other guy in TEXAS has or had done pretty much the same thing , except calling 911 until it was over !
he seems to be doing OK with it !
at the risk of speculating ( i agree with DEE ) if this other guy was first and it was acceptable , sounds like its a justified action !

We are a foolish people , we had a president that got in trouble with tapes and we see people every day running their mouth only to be punished later for what they said while being recorded !
I read things every day on this site where someone says what they would do if someone did something to them !
I always wonder what would come of it if something really did happen to them and the content of their post were found !
would that make it premeditated ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dee

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #110 on: December 21, 2007, 03:42:42 AM »
SHOOTALL, do you have a plan of action if a tornado is coming? If you do is it premeditated, or preplanned? Do you also have a plan in the event your awakened in the middle of the night by an intruder? If you do, is it premeditated, or preplanned? Do you keep a loaded gun by your bed, in case of that event? If you do is it premeditated or preplanned?
I not only have a plan of action, but have shoot lanes specially lighted in the event of an intruder making it into my house, where I can see him, but the lights will give me cover, and constrict his vision. Premeditated or "Preplanned?
Premeditated is nothing like the word PRE-PLANNING. And it would be hard to PREMEDITATE a burglary, but you can certainly, PRE-PLAN for a burglary of your own home, or your neighbors for that matter. I have never known of a burglar giving home owners his "theft schedule", and with out it, I hardly think you could premeditate his demise.
All of this SPECULATION, is done on this forum for the most part, by folks whom don't even live in Texas. They are trying to reason out, what "their" local laws would do, and they are not the same laws, as the Castle Doctrine Law in Texas. This state is indeed a big part of the dreaded "GUN CULTURE" that so many fear and criticize. THEY DON'T FIT!
One can "wring their hands" and proclaim "what if" all they want, and it is nothing more than land fill material.
The facts have been given, the law has been explained. There is nothing left to do, but WATCH WHAT HAPPENS. Agreed?
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline Almtnman

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #111 on: December 21, 2007, 03:57:25 AM »
Great post Dee!
AMM
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"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."~~Thomas Jefferson

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #112 on: December 21, 2007, 06:15:12 AM »
DEE I'm on your side !
was just my way of saying shoot shut up and shovel !
we live in a world where someone is either taping us or taking pictures ! So don't give then ammo to use against you !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Dee

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #113 on: December 21, 2007, 06:27:16 AM »
Shoot, shut up, and shovel. Now that is way too good for even a bumper sticker. What a motto.  ;)
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #114 on: December 21, 2007, 07:02:24 AM »
i messed it up
its really

SHOOT , SHOVEL AND SHUT UP !

It was the answer i got when i asked what happens when a grizzly bear comes in the cook tent !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline rex6666

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #115 on: December 21, 2007, 10:56:32 AM »
My daughter made me a decal for the back glass of my truck, it had a picture
of an eagle in the back ground and said
GOD, GUNS AND GUTS,  MADE, AND KEEP AMERICA GREAT
lots of people here in TEXAS would wave me down to find out where to get one.
Some people would drive by and give me half the peace sign, then i would try to wave them down to tell them where to put it. ::)
Rex
GOD GUNS and GUTS MADE AMERICA GREAT

Texas is good for men and dogs, but it is hell on women and horses.

Offline Brett

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #116 on: December 22, 2007, 08:39:51 AM »
In case any one is interested here is a link to the Castle Doctrine Law for the State of Texas. 

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/SB00378I.htm

 I doubt that the man would ever be brought to trial, and if he was I don't think a jury of his pears would ever convict him.  The good folks of Texas have more common sense than that.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Texas man shoots burglars??
« Reply #117 on: December 22, 2007, 09:34:28 AM »
  Right on Brett..

  He must be convicted by 12 of his peers...and if I'm not mistaken, it must be unanimous..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)