Author Topic: Greybeard (Read 1462 times)

jh45gun · « **on:** November 29, 2007, 07:06:15 AM »

Of course when you lock a topic a person does not have a way to defend their comments. About the Militia I have no problems with folks arming themselves to protect themselves that is our right under the Second Amendment. I also would not have a problem with militias if they were legit but many of them in the past have been filled with NUT JOBS who give gun owners a bad name. I am not saying all militias are bad I am sure there are some good ones, but there have been some in the past that attracted some elements that were not what the founding fathers intended.

myronman3 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 29, 2007, 07:45:39 AM »

so with that logic, because of a few who you judge to be "not what our founding fathers intended" you label them all as bad. dont forget, the media and government have their own agenda, and arent above twisting the story to their liking. i.e.-dont believe all you read or see.

no offense intended, but you really need to start thinking for yourself. dont let 'knee jerk' reactions define who you are.

jh45gun · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2007, 07:56:19 AM »

I am sure I do not always say things clear but in this case I thought I made it clear that I do not label them all bad I said that however you have to admit that there has been some bad press about some of these militias that have attracted some characters that do not help the gun owner any. That is my point. Take that mess in Montana for instance or WACO. Now I agree the Governement really handled that one wrong as did they Ruby Ridge still the facts show that Koresh was a nut job and they were a militia there in the sense of the word. These kinds of militias do give any legit ones a bad name.

myronman3 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 29, 2007, 09:45:11 AM »

i remember the government getting their asses shot off after some ego-tripping federal officer/s thought that badge made them bullet proof. they got embaressed. maybe he was a kook, maybe he wasnt.
well now koresh aint around to tell his side of things,is he?

weaver might have been an outlaw, but since when do we kill a criminals family? imagine if our soldiers did that!!! do you condone that action against american women and childern? i sure as hell dont.

think about how our founding fathers would be portrayed if britian wrote the history books. or how hitler would have written history if he had won...
again, dont believe all you read or see.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #4 on:** November 29, 2007, 10:01:40 AM »

I would like to make one point: the media has mis-used, abused, twisted and downright demonized the word militia until it's like the word "assault rifle". No one knows what one is, but ther're scared to death of one.

To make a litmus test of Waco and Ruby Ridge, if the principles had been black, do you think what happened would have happened? In either case? Can you imagine a cattle hauler of armed agents pulling up in front of say Al Sharpton's church and storming it?

Weaver was set up. And the gov't has paid off like a slot machine. Whether Koresh was a nut case or not, we only have the word of the federal spin doctors and their paid informants.

jh45gun · « **Reply #5 on:** November 29, 2007, 02:08:03 PM »

Dang it myronman did you read the whole post I SAID that the Government screwed up at Ruby Ridge and Waco now did'nt I. I do stand on my comments that SOME NOT ALL militias have attracted and had some folks that really do not help the gun owners cause. KKK, Skinhead Nazi types that do not to me make that particular militia a desireable thing. I have seen some of these types at gun shows and they to me paint a negative picture. I am not saying militias are bad only the ones that have members that do not help the Second Amendment in their actions.

jh45gun · « **Reply #6 on:** November 29, 2007, 02:09:26 PM »

I agree that the media has made ALL militias or just the word look bad. Some have brought it on themselves though and they are the ones I am refering to.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2007, 12:05:05 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun on November 29, 2007, 02:09:26 PM

I agree that the media has made ALL militias or just the word look bad. Some have brought it on themselves though and they are the ones I am refering to.

I know what your saying jh45gun.

myronman3 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2007, 03:11:55 AM »

Quote from: jh45gun on November 29, 2007, 02:09:26 PM

I agree that the media has made ALL militias or just the word look bad. Some have brought it on themselves though and they are the ones I am refering to.

i hear ya, there are definately some kooks out there. my point is not to paint with the wide brush.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2007, 05:48:52 AM »

But, alas, like the freedom of speech means you sometimes have to hear something you don't like or don't agree with, the same is true with the 2nd. I don't like the tattooed, skin headed, neo-nazies and such but what the libs and gun grabbers are trying to do right now is to splinter the gun owers into self-serving little groups. Thus the attack on "assault rifles" and "sniper rifles" and "saturday night specials". While telling Mr Joe Skeetshooter, "don't worry, baby, we're not interested in your shotgun.........................yet."

jh45gun · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2007, 07:23:18 AM »

I agree about being divided how it hurts us and you hear the quote "politics make strange bedfellows" which is true how ever I cannot see how these sort of folks (Nazi kkk types) help us any and are more of a detriment in my opinion.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2007, 10:57:00 AM »

The problem, jh45gun, is exactly who gets to decide which are the sheep and which are the goats?
Who are the Hell's Angels and who are the bank clerks that like to wear leather and ride motorcycles on week ends? It's kinda like way back when Larry Flynt (spl) brought out Hustler. There was a ground swell wanting censorship in the media. To a man, the media closed ranks in support of Flynnt to the tune: "I don't like what he does, but I support his right to do it." And I think that's what we need to do today.

jh45gun · « **Reply #12 on:** November 30, 2007, 02:34:16 PM »

I do not see how any average gun owner could support the likes of the Skinheads and the KKK and their ilk. or why they would want to.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2007, 02:58:50 PM »

You know I really don't care for hate groups. I think the point some here are trying to make goes back to the beginning of the our country. All men are created equal. Our fore fathers who founded this country truly believed in this. They also believed we had a right to bear arms. The right to protect ourselves and our property. There have been crazy groups of people from the beginning of time. I am sure there was when they wrote those most important words that gave us our freedom. The KKK the skinheads and all those other sick groups out there in our country still have the right to bear arms. Weather you like it or not there will always be sick people with guns. You can't take them away from them with out taking them from all of us. What you do with your guns is really up to you. If you are crazy you may kill some one with your firearm. The law will catch up with you and you will pay then. I will take my chances knowing I have a firearm to protect my family and myself and hope I don't have one of these crazed people come up on me and my family. If they do God willing I will be the one that comes out on top. Dale

jh45gun · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2007, 06:24:08 PM »

Thats true Dale stilll that does not mean I have to support some one who caters to that crowd. I realize they have the right just as I do. Still does not mean I have to like it.

jh45gun · « **Reply #15 on:** November 30, 2007, 06:27:15 PM »

Bee I have never had any problems telling outlaw bikers apart from bankers on bikes. Like the skinheads and the nazi types they stick out in a crowd which is there intention in the first place.

jh45gun · « **Reply #16 on:** November 30, 2007, 06:29:46 PM »

By the way Dale that is "The Right to BEAR Arms" Unless your larry the cable guy then it is Right To BARE arms.

I always liked his play on words with that one.

NONYA · « **Reply #17 on:** November 30, 2007, 06:47:50 PM »

You cater to the NRA and Ill bet every gun totin radical/skinhead/klansmen in the US has a membership.

jh45gun · « **Reply #18 on:** November 30, 2007, 07:05:44 PM »

That very well could be Nonya since most all applications are mail ins with the exception of some guys getting them at gun shows like I do the NRA does not have a clue of who you are or what you look like. Of course neither does the GOA either in many cases. However I never have heard of the NRA leaders pandering to those groups at a meeting.

DalesCarpentry · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2007, 11:37:51 PM »

Quote from: jh45gun on November 30, 2007, 06:29:46 PM

By the way Dale that is "The Right to BEAR Arms" Unless your larry the cable guy then it is Right To BARE arms. I always liked his play on words with that one.

Sorry I guess you never misspelled anything. Dale

scout34 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 01, 2007, 02:21:26 AM »

Scores Killed, Hundreds Injured As Para-Military Extremists Riot - Could It Happen Again?

BOSTON, April 20 - National Guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambushed on April 19th by elements of a para-military extremist faction. Military and law enforcement sources estimated that 72 were killed and more than 20 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement. Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices.

The governor, who described the group's organizers as "criminals," issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government's efforts to secure law and order.

The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons. Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting in early April between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms. One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that "none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned their weapons over voluntarily."

"Government troops initially succeeded in confiscating a large supply of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily-armed extremists who had been tipped off regarding the government's plans.

During a tense standoff in Lexington's town park, National Guard Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right-wing extremists. Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange.

Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. Colonel Smith, finding his forces overmatched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.

Governor Gage has called upon citizens to support the state/national joint task force in its effort to restore law and order. The governor has also demanded the surrender of those responsible for planning and leading the attack against the government troops. Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and John Hancock, who have been identified as "ringleaders" of the extremist faction, remain at large.

I guess the point is all in who is telling the story. There is a whole lot more to Waco and Ruby Ridge than meets the eye, or makes it through the MSM and Gov't filters.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #21 on:** December 01, 2007, 03:38:10 AM »

Good one, Scout34.

Please, let's not turn this into a NRA/GOA pissing contest. Please.

Okay, jh45gun, you say you haven't a problem telling a Hell's Angel from a week-end biker but does that apply to everyone? What about, perhaps, someone with an agenda different from your's?

Look at the different guns that they declared or attempted to declare as "assault weapons" in Kalifornia.

jh45gun · « **Reply #22 on:** December 01, 2007, 07:55:12 AM »

Scout I would hardly compare a nazi skin head to Paul Revere. You guys are grasping a straws as you know some of these militia groups attract some really undesirable characters. So why not just let it go at that I said not all militias are bad. I do how ever think that some attract and have as members some real nut cases.

myronman3 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2007, 09:25:50 AM »

you are right, some militia's may have people i might not care for in them; outlaw them, take the all the guns because that is the only way to protect us from this menace. matter of fact, outlaw motorcycles too, because some of those characters are shady. next we can drag the fags out in the streets and shoot them in the head, burn a few books i dont care for, and lynch the democrats because i never did like the way they thought. i never did agree with the catholics take on things, lets just outlaw that religon. in fact, i dont like the fact that you and i dont agree. what the hell, while we are at it, maybe i will just have you locked up for it.

where does it end? if you cant see the error of your thinking, i dont know what else to say to you.

jh45gun · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2007, 02:54:43 PM »

Your going overboard just because I do not like them does not mean that I would condone what you just said how ever they think that way don't they. I guess this discussion is over with anyway according to Bill's new rules. I guess I will not reply to anything at the pot bellied stove again and just moderate my forums that I am responsible for as that way I cannot anger the management.

beemanbeme · « **Reply #25 on:** December 01, 2007, 03:35:14 PM »

I do not like those people nor endorse those people but I endorse their right to own guns as long as they obey the same laws I obey. Its as simple as that.

myronman3 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 02, 2007, 02:25:22 AM »

Quote from: beemanbeme on December 01, 2007, 03:35:14 PM

I do not like those people nor endorse those people but I endorse their right to own guns as long as they obey the same laws I obey. Its as simple as that.

that about says it in a nutshell.

scout34 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 02, 2007, 07:43:17 AM »

I propose a ban on all meanies. That'll make the world a safer place. It's for the children.

35Rem · « **Reply #28 on:** December 04, 2007, 09:43:26 AM »

Scouts' post may have been a little long for some folks to really grasp what was said.

The "founders" are heros to us Americans. However, to the Government under which they were colonist's, they were Radical Extremists (by todays vernacular). All the loyal King/Queen lovers were appalled by their actions. It was unthinkable to rebel from society like they did.

Something may look extreme and rediculous today, but what was done in 1776 don't look too bad now, does it?