Author Topic: M1-A socom -16  (Read 2316 times)

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Offline SHOOTALL

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M1-A socom -16
« on: November 29, 2007, 08:57:37 AM »
saw a M1-a socom-16 in a shop today !
now i don't like the mini-30 as much , has anyone tried one yet ? if so how did it shoot ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 10:45:29 AM »
I shot one at the local range when Springfield sent a rep out with many Springfield guns to sample. I am fastinated by this rifle, short, light,  carryable, controled recoil, powerful..............

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2007, 01:05:22 AM »
They offer the scout with 18 in. bbl , but i like the short light socom also .
the loss of 2 inches can't slow the bullet enough to be of concern can it ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline simplicity

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2007, 05:27:09 AM »
In all truth if I had to choose between the two I would go with the scout with the 18 inch barrel, mainly because the slightly longer barrel would be better for hunting purposes in my book and I'll take that little extra barrel if I have to reach out and touch something.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2007, 06:21:30 AM »
The 16in bbl must be the rage , been to 2 stores and they have them but not the 18in.
would like to hold both before getting one
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Old Syko

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 06:52:53 AM »
From all I've read this thing was brought about to serve as a LEO car carry weapon and nothing else.  Local LE have been drooling all over them.
Looks to me like an attempt to jump on the AR bandwagon while it's still hot.  I've only fondled a couple examples without shooting them and
honestly, I prefer the AR platform for its intended use and prefer the M!-A in something closer to its original design.  Of coarse we don't all have
the same tastes. :)

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 01:06:52 AM »
i don't care for the AR , its a nice gun and respected . but i like the M1-A , and after  hunting with a mini-30 ( which i also like ) the socom  or scout looks like a great improvement over the mini.
I grew up with the M-1 , the M1-A , 30 cal. carbine ,mini-14 and mini.-30 so don't take my not wanting an AR as a cut I have owned 2 , but feel more comfortable with old school as my use is hunting and not war its not a life or death choice ( unless you are the critter )
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 12:10:00 PM »
The SOCOM in the 16" configuration is so popular because 16" is the minimum legal length for a rifle. I would also choose the 16 and believe it would be an extremely effective all purpose deer rifle, maybe the best.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline scout34

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2007, 02:35:45 AM »
I've owned two of them.  Unloaded the first one in a fit of "Trade fever" and immediately regretted it.  Finally got another one and am so glad.  I used to shoot one in three gun matches and loved the power advantages over the AR.  Shooting at hanging steel plates 100yds out, sometimes you could not be certain of a hit with 5.56.  7.62 leaves no doubt.  The muzzle brake is extremely effective and allows rapid follow up shots.  To top it all off, it is extremely reliable with it's op-rod system.

The 22" barrel is great for reaching out, but the 7.62 still performs very well from a 16" barrel.  I have both.  What a country.

I can heartily recommend.

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2007, 02:53:33 AM »
Scout34,

What optics do you have on your SOCOM?

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline Old Syko

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2007, 03:25:28 AM »
  I used to shoot one in three gun matches and loved the power advantages over the AR.  Shooting at hanging steel plates 100yds out, sometimes you could not be certain of a hit with 5.56.  7.62 leaves no doubt. 

Nothing like comparing apples to oranges to make an invalid point. ::)  Try using an AR in 7.62 rather than 5.56 for the comparison and your point suddenly doesn't mean much.

Offline targshooter

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2007, 03:04:09 AM »
I would suggest doing an internet search on the M1A Socom 16 before buying. Read between the lines in the gun rags that reviewed it , the accuracy reports are not stellar. I have seen the 18 inch version in action at the local gun range. It was capable of about 2 MOA with match loadings and a Leupold scope from the prone position over sand bags at 300 meters. The owner was satisfied. If I was interested in such a rifle, the 18 inch Scout is the one I would go for after seeing it shoot.

Offline scout34

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2007, 04:05:00 AM »
Hey Cheese.  Right now no plans for optics as funds are insufficient.  I like the scout rail and was thinking about some kind of red dot and maybe a Burris 2-7X for more precision work, but right now the irons are fine for me.

Syko, how is the point invalid?  How is it apples vs oranges?  3 gun guys overwhelmingly use the AR for it's ease of use and ergonomics, as well as the 5.56's low recoil.  For 10 yd paper punching, edge goes to the AR.  For longer range steel hits (12" x 12" x 1" hanging on logging chain) the 5.56 would not show much in terms of hit signature, while 7.62 leaves no doubt.  Misses are easier for the firer to spot as well, whereas 5.56 needed a spotter to see the round splash.  Consequently I was able to self adjust and judge hits for myself without the need for a spotter, firing less rounds in a shorter span of time.  Shorter stage time = competitive with AR.

All this is a matter of personal preference and academics while you are on the range.  When paper targets are replaced with bad guys that shoot back the power advantage that 7.62 has over 5.56 becomes a very real factor.  I've carried both the M4 and M14 in nasty sandy places and have engaged enemy personnel at ranges of 10 to 300 meters and can say that the 7.62 speaks with authority.  Much more so than 5.56.  Nothing like having to follow blood trails in the dark, knowing that there is a dude with an AK on the other end who may or may not be incapacitated.  Never had anybody crawl off after they got hit with a 7.62.

Never had the M14 malf either.  M4 has a nasty habit of grinding to a halt in the dusty atmosphere of mechanized operations.  Before you say that it was probably insufficient maintenance that would cause my weapon to do this, know that I served as the platoon sergeant on both tours and rigidly enforced periodic weapon maintenance.  This is where an AR in 7.62 has the same problems as it's smaller cousin.  The direct gas impingement operating system is less than optimal for operations in a dirty environment, which pretty much describes combat.  I also think that the lack of a reciprocating op-rod handle really hinders the AR.  If you have a round hang up halfway into the chamber, do you use the forward assist to jam it in and risk failure to extract, or eject it and try the next one?  Good luck trying to clear a hung round with the little charging handle.  I had an AR10 that would jam up about every 10 rounds and have to be tapped open with a block of wood and a hammer; not my first choice for a hairy situation.

I've learned the value of training as you fight.  If I ever find myself in a fight again I will do my best to make sure the weapon that is in my sweaty paws is an M14 or M1A.



Offline Old Syko

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2007, 06:40:55 AM »
Scout, you render your intended point invalid by compairing 2 different weapons based on a differing caliber, do you not?  As though the M1 is the only thing available in 7.62 and the AR only comes in 5.56 which we all know is wrong. 

3gun, nor any other competition for that matter, even comes close to simulating combat conditions.  I've run over 10,000 rounds through a single AR in the last 6 months or so without that first failure to feed or fire and with only minimal cleaning of the weapon.  As I said earlier, I've only inspected this new variant of the M1 but that doesn't mean I'm not familiar with other variants of the same rifle or the caliber used.  As I said, I prefer something closer to the original design as unlike Shootall I won't be hunting game with one.  I have other items I perfer for that purpose.  Then again, I won't be hunting with an AR either for the same reasons. 

The main thing I noticed with the SOCOM was the weight.  Felt quite heavy to me and that was unloaded.  9# seemed a bit much to me for a 16" rifle.

Offline teddy12b

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2007, 06:55:07 AM »
Targetshooter,
     You mentioned seeing a guy at the range with a M1A Scout?  Just so I understand what you're saying a little better when you're talking about 2MOA @ 300 yards are you saying the guy shooting was able to place his shots into a 6" circle?  That's quite a shooter if that's the case.  The 16" M1's don't interest me as much as the 18" scout models do.  The regular full size models just seem a little bit long and cumbersome.

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2007, 07:20:01 AM »
The ar15 and the m1a are both battle rifles, they are both apples. ;)

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline scout34

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2007, 07:21:35 AM »
I guess we're back to the old M16 vs M14 meme.  If it works for you, run with it.

Offline scout34

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2007, 07:22:36 AM »
Hey Cheese,

How's that 6.8 working out for you?

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2007, 07:28:05 AM »
I own one of each, the AR is in 6.8 spc. I hunt deer with both. My m1a is a standard withe a Springfield scope mount and Leopold scope. I use the 20 round mag with 20 round loaded. It has some weight to it. I carry it almost all season, no problem, even one handed, I am a large strong man and have no problem with this, I enjoy it.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2007, 07:34:15 AM »
The 6.8 is great. Compact, carryable, accurate and reliable. I need different optics since the Holo sight is not the best for low light. So I have been carrying the m1a mostly, especially during buck season since I have more confidence in the 7.62 round. But in WI there is an antlerless season coming up and I will use the ar for that.
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2007, 01:29:54 AM »
had opportunity to discuss the 16in. vs. 18in. bbl with an armorer over the weekend and he had seen a 16in. bbl key hole at long range . he said the bbl would not stabilize the bullet , when i remarked that i had shot XP-100's in 308 ( military Ball )
he had no reply .
anyone else heard this ?
he also said the new M!-A's were made using Chinese parts , not sure about that either !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2007, 02:07:00 AM »
I have shot the 16 inch and it was very accurate.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2007, 02:58:56 AM »
did ya notice any loose parts or odd parts ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cheesehead

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2007, 03:01:58 AM »
No, the gun was flawless.

Cheese
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2007, 03:04:03 AM »
thanks !
the 16in. bbl looks Handy as a shirt pocket !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline scout34

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2007, 11:33:01 AM »
I think that some of the reputation for inaccuracy comes from the XS Outdoors sights that are on the gun.  The front sight is a very wide tritium post and the rear is a rather large aperture.  This combination is very fast and works well in low light, but is not conducive to fine accuracy at long range.  The only thing that the shorter barrel does is shave off some of the bullet's velocity as measured at the muzzle.  The difference between a 22" and 16" barrel can be as much as 200-300fps.

For all that the Socom still packs a heck of a punch and is much more effective than the 5.56 at battle rifle ranges.  M855 62gr clocks around 3100fps from a 20" M16.  I've never been able to set up my chrono at a qualification range, so I'm not sure how much slower it is out of a 14.5" M4.  16" probably isn't doing much better.

5.56 doesn't keyhole out of shorter barrels, why would 7.62?

Offline targshooter

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2007, 10:59:17 AM »
Teddy12b,
Yes, that is what 2 MOA implies.
I was impressed as it was shooting almost as well as several competition rifles next to it. This may not be typical, but this particular M1A Scout rifle was capable of 2MOA at 300 meters.

Offline teddy12b

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2007, 11:46:26 AM »
Just making sure.  There have been a couple times when the internet experts have gotten their MOA's confused.  That size of a group really impresses me especially out of a semi auto.

Offline scout34

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2007, 12:20:23 PM »
2 MOA from any battle rifle is outstanding performance.

Offline targshooter

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Re: M1-A socom -16
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2007, 12:54:48 PM »
There were quite a few tricked out M1A competition rifles on the benches that day. They were wearing service irons and a few were NM types, all getting ready for the summer shoots. The M1A Scout belonged to one of the shooters. It was scoped and had a wood stock. It was unaltered according to the owner. I was impressed, as I am not a fan of the stock Springfield M1A. Most that I have seen shoot well were tuned at considerable expense by a competent gunsmith.
When I shot competitively we had many tuned M1s and M14s that could shoot inside 2 MOA. Most shooters could easily wring this out of them at 100 yards. The trick was for the shooter to do so with the issue sights at 200, 300 and 600 yards. Not the gun, but the shooter was the limiting factor. There were occasional rifles that would hover near 1 MOA. None were scoped.