Author Topic: Think I made a mistake!  (Read 1472 times)

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Offline adstrin

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Think I made a mistake!
« on: June 22, 2003, 06:15:25 AM »
Guys I admit I'm a long time rifle hunter and only used pistols for self defense purposes. I bought a Ruger Redhawk 44mag and a 9 inch barrel. I don't know if its too heavy or too much recoil for a novice handgunner but past 30 yards I can't hit a 8 inch pie plate. I want the challenge of handgun hunting but need better accuracy before I try to shoot a deer. Should I switch to a TC.  I've been trying the Ruger for over a year and I'm pretty good with my rifles out to 250 yards.  :(
I'm for gun control as long as I'm the one controlling the gun!!!

Offline willis5

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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2003, 07:35:12 AM »
shooting a handgun with open sights is a LOT different than shooting a rifle with a scope (I asume your rifles are scoped and your handgun is not)
Your gun is an accurate pistol capable of shooting much further with suprising accuracy. What is your expected range for deer hunting? are you using a rest when shooting at 30 yards? I know some people can help you with some more details. There is a wealth of info here.
Cheers,
Willis5

Offline volshooter

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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2003, 08:20:42 AM »
You didn't say if you had a load that would group good. My Ruger Super Black Hawk likes hand loads alot better than factory. You have to sight a pistol in the same as a rifle, off the bags. If it won't group with your load off the bags then you wont be able to group free handed. When I'm devleoping a load I only shoot at 15 yards, looking for very small groups. If I get them I start increasing the range. I only shoot at game from a good stable rest. (knees, tree, ect) From a table/rest I can usally hit a 5 gallon bucket at 125 yards with open sights about 90%. Personally I limit my open sight shots to 60 yards. I've got a red dot on my Raging Bull and can hit at 75 yards with confidance. I won't try longer shots and longer shots are not the norm here in East TN anyway. There are some folks who can hit deer with a pistol a long way off, I ain't one of em. As C. Eastwood said' "man's gotta know his limitations". Your shooting a fine firearm, switching to a T/C probaly won't improve your shots. Bottom line is make sure your load groups and work on supported shooting form, leave the free hand for fun.
Rick :D

Offline MePlat

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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2003, 11:04:14 AM »
adstrin:  First off is you can't group offhand then you need to go to the fundamentals of shooting.
1.  Sight Alignment:  Meaning to focus on your front sight and keep the sight alignment no matter what.

2.  Keep that sight alignment as you aim at the target even though you are moving.

3.  Keep increasing the pressure on the trigger till the gun fires while keeping the sight alignment.


If you will do this and you resist the urge to grab the trigger as the sights swing by the center of the bull you will shoot well.
As you practice more and more the natural movement area of your hold will get smaller and smaller.
NO ONE EVER STOPS MOVING ALTOGETHER EVEN THE BEST SHOT IN THE WORLD.  Their movement area justs gets smaller and smaller to a point then that is the best they can do.
What some people do is they see the swing of the sights on the target and then try to time the swing of the sights and the trigger pull as the sights swing by the center of the bull which is wrong.  I've never seen anyone that is a good shot that tries to do that.
If you flinch is another story altogether and you have to use your mind to stop it.
Most handguns will shoot different from a rest than from offhand and if someone argues the point I doubt they can shoot well enough offhand at that point.
REMEMBER to keep sight alignment first and formost even if a wasp lands on your head as you are squeezing the trigger.  Let the gun move and ease off the shot as you move in your normal movement area and the shot will be there.  
At this stage in the game don't worry about the load as I guarentee 99.99 percent of the loads will outshoot you at this time.
You Know Me.  I Don't Have a Clue

Offline TScottO

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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2003, 12:40:25 PM »
When shooting a handgun, make sure you grip your pistol in the same spot every time and with the same amount of gripping pressure. Also shoot with both eyes open, one eye on the target and one eye on the front sight. Your rear sight will be somewhat of a blur. After your grip is consistent and you are able to keep a good sight picture, with both eyes open, work on finding a good comfortable cadence with your breathing. When you have a smooth breathing rhythm you will then exhale one final time, when all of the wind is out of your lungs your body will stop moving (almost) at this instant, in your mind, say “click” as you squeeze off a round. Breathing is something seldom talked about. Learning good breathing habits helped me as much as anything. Also when you are in the heat of the moment and can feel your heart beating, time your exhale and “click” with the beat of your heart.

Hope this helps,
Scott

Offline adstrin

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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2003, 02:15:19 PM »
Thanks for the info. I do have a Simmons scope on the pistol. I'll take your advice and look at my loads and do some practicing. I usually get 1 inch groups with my rifles so my standards for accuracy are pretty high. I can't stand the thought of not making a clean kill.

Thanks again.
I'm for gun control as long as I'm the one controlling the gun!!!

Offline kciH

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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2003, 02:38:49 PM »
Adstrin,
you should probably check to see if you are flinching first thing.  It sounds as though you are new to shooting handguns that have signifigant recoil.  If you are shooting 1-2" groups offhand at 25 yds, you're doing OK.  You will not see the accuracy of a good rifle from a revolver off a rest, let alone standing, end of story.  Limit your hunting distance to the point where you can keep ALL of your shots, EVERY time you shoot, in a 8" circle (paper plate is commonly used).  This will take most of of the danger out of wounding an animal, unless the "buck fever" is too much of an influence.  If you can do that at 100yds with a rest, you're doing pretty well.  If you can do that at 50yds without support, you're doing very well.

Another point, A Redhawk with a 9" barrel and scope is one large peice of iron!  Unless you have very strong shoulder muscles to hold this beast in the air, your shooting will diminish early on in the practice session until you become acclimated to the weight.  Practice, and plenty of it, is the ONLY thing that will make you a better shot with a handgun of any description.  If you don't intend to shoot game much past 50yds, I'd take the scope off of it and use the iron sights and practice alot.  I like to practice about 90% offhand, and 10% supported when using a revolver intended to be shot at 50yds or less.  The 10% supported is to determine how the revovler/pistol needs to be supported in order to prevent change in point of impact. It also fun to put the revolver on a good rest and try to kill clay pigeons at 100yds.  The better you can shoot offhand, the better shot you will be in any other situation as far as I've seen.  I've seen many benchrest wizards with a rifle who have no problem shooting sub moa groups all day long,  get them to stand up and shoot offhand and they are hard pressed to keep 5 shots on a paper plate at 100yds.

I would not give up on your Redhawk in favor of a TC.  Your Redhawk, with iron sights actually has a longer sighting plane than a 10" TC.  Is the TC more accurate?  In almost every situation, yes.  Out to 100yds, that's pretty much of a moot point since your Redhawk should be able to shoot 4" or less groups at 100yds with a good load.   It may even weigh a little less and be easier to pack around, unless you put a scope on it.  The 10" TC in .44 Mag has recoil that I consider BRUTAL when shooting full power 300gr loads, and it's not that much more pleasant with the 240's at full steam.  The TC provides a substantial increase in velocity over revovlers even when the barrel length is similar, and a proportionate increase in recoil to go along with it.  I shoot single shot pistols, for hunting and target shooting, and it's more like shooting a rifle than a pistol.  Many uninformed people don't really even consider it "handgun hunting"

Offline crawfish

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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2003, 02:55:00 PM »
Couple of things you can do
 If you reload go with some light or even squib loads or even those rubber bullets with primer only YOU NEED TO LEARN TO SHOOT A HANDGUN BEFORE YOU CAN HUNT.

If you don't reload you need to get some 44Special ammo and use that to do you LTS drills lastly if the cost of ammo is a problem then you need to start to do DRY FIRE drills.   NO YOU WILL NOT HURT YOU GUN You can do your dry fire while you are watching the hunting shows on TV Ready targets. You need to do the dry fire to learn sight picture and trigger control. You can also do some flinch correction drills but is take another person to help. EVERY time you go to shoot let the other person load you gun then shoot your targets I'll bet you a paycheck that even on the empty chambers that gun is all over the place. You might even close your eyes on them.  You need to take baby steps before you can risk hunting with your big boomer.
Love those .41s'

Offline jhalcott

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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2003, 03:39:11 PM »
ad, probably both
  too heavy and to much recoil. Buy/borrow a 22 revolver and maybe an air pistol.You can shoot the air gun in your garage /basement for practice using iron sights.the 22 will help you learn gun/trigger control and sighting at longer ranges.I have shot deer and ground hog at over 100 yards with a 44SBH,BUT, I was into sillywets at that time. I regularly shot several hundred rounds a WEEK for practice. I used air guns 22's and the plastic bullets from speer to cut down on the recoil effects.
  try these tricks and see if your shooting doesn't improve. When you get to the range with your 44 use a rest till you know that you can shoot small groups. THen shoot only a few rounds from field positions to judge your ability.3/5 shots from standing ,sitting and prone is all you need to start. As you get better,more familiar with you guns you can begin to shoot more and farther.Just keep the number of shots tolerable. If you get tired or frustrated your groups will suffer.If you push it ,you will get worse NOT better.   jh

Offline myronman3

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Think I made a mistake!
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2003, 03:53:09 PM »
2 things you should pay attention to.   FLINCHING -solve this by shooting low power reloads (if you dont reload, now is the time to start) and paying attention to the fundamentals.      a possiblility- maybe your scope is broken.   i had this happen once and it drove me nuts as i am a good shot and took me a half hour to figure out what was going on.   i think it is more likely that you  are flinching.

Offline adstrin

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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2003, 12:53:46 PM »
Good stuff guys. :-)
I'm for gun control as long as I'm the one controlling the gun!!!

Offline Questor

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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2003, 04:11:48 PM »
Adstrin:

Your experience is not unique.  It's more like archery than rifle hunting. You need to practice a lot, preferably with light loads for a while.  A scope will probably increase your effectiveness to 50 yards immediately.
Safety first

Offline Bullseye

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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2003, 05:35:07 PM »
Make sure the scope is not broken, try the iron sights.  Don't know how much you have shot it, but it takes time.  My first handgun was a Contender in 35 Rem.  It took me 200 rounds before I could even get a group good enough to really adjust the scope.  I would use a rest all the time until you can get good groups out of it working on gently pulling the trigger.  Once you get some groups from the rest, start working on shooting from hunting positions.  I have had a Redhawk and now have a Super Redhawk and they pretty much digest any load with decent accuracy at 25-50 yards.

One thing I honestly believe from my first experiences with the 35 rem, is that a person can start out with a big boomer.  It just takes time to learn good trigger control which is the biggest thing in my opinion if using a scope and shooting from a rest.  I can take any of my Contenders and get groups under an 1 1/2 at 50 yards all day long.  My daughter struggles to get a 6" group but she is getting better because she is learning to gently pull the trigger without moving the gun.  Once you master it, recoil from any of the big boomers will not seem that bad to you.

Good Luck!

Offline feyxla

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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2003, 06:32:36 AM »
I take it you have a local range or can fire localy.
Go there and put alot of rounds through the paper, its just a matter of using the tool correctly and your not going to do that without practice.

Offline RollTide

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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2003, 08:33:09 AM »
All I can say is that my 6" Dan Wesson with a Busnell scope will put six shots under an inch at 25 yards from a rest.  I have shot a lot of large handguns and for me, the longer barrels are better ONLY IF YOU PLAN TO HUNT USING SHOOTING STICKS OR SOME OTHER TYPE REST.  Otherwise, I would suggest a shorter barrel and a scope.  The Ruger is a fine gun, but with that long barrel it will take a lot of training to shoot well off hand.  If your gun does not shoot under two  inches at 25 yards from a rest, there is a problem with your gun or your load.  A Ruger should give that kind of accuracy with ease with the right load for someone with your shooting experience. And as you say, the long barrel guns are a pain to carry.  I usually carry mine in an across the chest bandoleer type holster.  This is really convenient since I usually hunt from a climbing treestand and i can pack in, climb and hunt with the gun across the front of my chest.  The treestand gives me a built it steady rest so I can use my 8" and 10" revolvers with great effect from the stand  (it also helps with long rifle shots as well).

Roll Tide

Offline willis5

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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2003, 09:50:08 AM »
one thing that I have done to practice to kill a flinch is to load bullets in the cylinder randomly. leave a few out, spin it and close the sucker without looking to see if you are going to hit a bullet or an empty chamber on your first shot. concentrate on keeping teh sights on teh target and not recoil. when you hit one that is empty you will see if you flinched when you shoot. It worked for me... Good luck
Cheers,
Willis5