Author Topic: Another test for a ML and Paper Patch (Read 2857 times)

Idaho Ron · « **on:** November 30, 2007, 11:17:17 AM »

I went out today to shoot some more. After last time I decided to glass bed the front 5" or so of my stock. The Barrel was moving in the stock and I wanted to remove that as a problem with left and right "flyers"
The tang was also bedded and I wrapped the soft lead 409-405-HB's in 9# 25% cotton Air Mail paper. I also decided to NOT use a felt wad under the bullet. I used 90gr of Pyrodex P for the powder.The first three shots hit high and to the right. I didn't care I just wanted to see a group. The group was good at 1.32" at 100 yards. I cleaned the gun and I moved the sight and shot two more. Both of these touched each other. I cleaned the gun again and I moved the sight again and shot a 6 shot group no cleaning. This group measured 1.52" at 100 yards. I was very happy with the results of this test. First I was happy that I didn't need the felt wad with the PP bullet. This will make it easier when I am hunting with this load. Second I was happy I could shoot a 6 shot group with it and not clean in between. Again this will make it easier when I am hunting and need a follow up shot. Here is the picture of the group. Ron

Castaway · « **Reply #1 on:** November 30, 2007, 12:23:04 PM »

Ron, that's some shooting! Patching is considered by some to be a combination of luck, a few bat wings and an eye or two of a newt. How tightly did you get it to shoot without patching?

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #2 on:** November 30, 2007, 01:22:09 PM »

Those bullets shot about 3.36" The Whitworth bullets shoot right at 2" most of the time. I haven't shot them since I glass bedded the front. Ron

Doe · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2008, 04:50:20 PM »

Hey...Ron what type of gun R U using? I'm little confuse, never heard of PP a front stuffer before, i HAVE A CABELA'S HAWKIN 50 cal percussion cap with 1-48"twist i think? and may be interested in some experimenting?

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2008, 05:53:30 PM »

Doe, I am using a TC Renegade with a Green Mountain barrel 1-28 twist. I have three of them, two 50's and one 45. I paper Patch for all three now. I also PP a 500 SW bullet for my 50 cal muzzleloader. I am using a Lee C501-440-RF mould. it throws a bullet that is .501 and weighs 558 grains give or take. After I paper patch the bullets I run them through the .501 sizer. The bullets go down snug and shoot very well. Since your gun is a 1-48 you will need a shorter bullet. I would look at a Lyman #501680. This mould is a 360 gr with lyman #2 lead. With pure lead it will probably be at least 380 gr. If you got the Lyman I would also get the Lee sizer for .501 and size after you PP them. Ron

Slufoot · « **Reply #5 on:** January 18, 2008, 04:33:44 PM »

Hello Ron, That's some great shooting!
Do you put some kind of lube on the PP before you start it down the barrel to help keep from tearing the paper?
Could you please post a picture of some of your bullets?

Thanks!
Slufoot

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #6 on:** January 18, 2008, 07:01:29 PM »

What is working for this gun is sizing them from .459 to .451 then PPing them. After they are PPed then I size them again. The soft lead bullets have been shooting great PPed and sized to .451 I am going to see if I can just maybe go down to .454 and see how that does. I use Hornady Great plains lube to push them down, and they are snug but I like them like that. Here is another group with that rifle, and a picture of the 459-405-HB I don't have a picture right now of the 500 SW bullets. I will get some taken and post them. Ron

tn_junk · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2008, 02:35:46 AM »

Great shooting. I am in the process of opening a 500 grain .459 Lee bullet mould up to .500 dia. Then going to size it down to .495 and try the paper patching.
Glad to see you having good results.

alan

Doe · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2008, 01:38:42 AM »

Hey RON do u think it would be ok to PP a 45-70 bullet being it got a dia of .458 and pp it to .501 dia., do you think it would work for a front stuffer? I'm going to try the 500 mag round and pp that and see if it'll work too being its a short bullet.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2008, 02:45:32 PM »

I am no expert here but I don't think that would work. going from .458 to .501 is too big of a leap. Getting the bullet to go down and come back out straight would be imposable in my limited experience. Your best bet would be to paper patch as close to the same size as you can. After I wrap the .501's I resize them again to .501 and they go down perfect. Here is a picture of the .501's with paper and without. Ron

Doe · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2008, 03:29:37 PM »

Can't wait to see your result on them bullet, cause i have a 1000 of them.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2008, 05:43:15 PM »

The first time I took them out I had some trouble with hang fire. Even with that I was shooting under 3" groups. I have switched to Pyrodex P and the hang fire is gone. As soon as we have a day above 14 degrees i want to shoot them again.
I am weighing them and only keeping the weight I want + or- .3 grains. I am going to see what load gives the best groups. Ron

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2008, 03:05:28 PM »

I poured some more and I also poured some 500 SW bullets. I weighed all the bullets and kept them within +-.50 grains. I paper patched them and got ready for a better day. Well Last Saturday it was warmer and the wind was better.
I decided to try the 500 SW bullets. These were 456 grains and I tested them for hardness. On my Cabin tree tester they were .030 or 5 BHN. The .030 is on the high side of 5 BHN by cabin trees scale, but still very soft. I started out with 80 grains of Pyrodex P. I shot a couple to see where they were going to hit. All the time I was cleaning between shots and I was using a felt wad between the powder and bullet. I got it zeroed for 50 yards and shot this group. It measures .539”

After that group I shot a group with 90 gr at 50 yards. It measures 1.79”

Then I shot a group at 100 grains and only 2 bullets out of 4 hit the target. I didn’t bother keeping this target since it stunk. So I decided to go to 100 yards and shoot.
I shot the first shot and cleaned. Then I shot the second. They were close so I moved the sight. I started with a clean gun and shot my first shot. The bullet hit my bulls eye. So I decided to see what kind of hunting load it would be. So I decided to NOT clean the gun and keep shooting until the group opened up. So I shot the second, then the third and then the fourth. At this point I had a group that was 1.57” at 100 yards. I shot the fifth bullet and it hit 3” higher. I quit there.

I am planning on testing more with this bullet but I think I am on to something with this load. Next time I will chronograph the load and do some more groups. This bullet has a BC of .296 compared to a hornady great plains bullets 410 gr 50 cal at .205 this is what it looks like. Ron

Castaway · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2008, 01:02:22 AM »

Looks like your patched bullet still has a tail on it. Try snipping it off with a pair of nail clippers and see what happens.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2008, 01:59:38 PM »

I tried it, The paper ended up coming off the bullet as I pushed it down. Ron

handirifle · « **Reply #15 on:** April 06, 2008, 07:07:13 PM »

Just so I fully understand what you're saying here, this is a 45 cal (I assume a bore dia of .458-.459 here) and you're sizing the "patched" bullet to 451, or the pre-patched bullet?

If it's the patched bullet, is that so it doesn't tear off the paper as you load it?

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #16 on:** April 07, 2008, 12:36:45 PM »

On the 45, it is a Green Mountain .458 Muzzleloader. I tried shooting without paper on the Lee 459-405-HB's and I didn't get good results. I pour the bullets at .458. Then I size them to .451, and wrap them with two wraps of 9 pound 25% paper. Then I lube them with Hornady great plains lube and size the bullets again with the paper on, to .451. This gives me a bullet that goes down snug but won't let the paper strip off the bullet as it is seated.
The 50's are the same thing. I pour them at .501 and wrap them. Then I size them to .501 and they are ready to load. Ron

handirifle · « **Reply #17 on:** April 07, 2008, 03:59:14 PM »

Sonds great. Did the TC come with the GM barrel? I looked at their website but could not find a 45 with that fast of twist. I'd like to get one for mine (not a TC) if possible.

Idaho Ron · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2008, 12:49:40 PM »

Green Mountain made a very limited supply of 1-18 twist, and I ordered it as soon as I saw it on their web page. A guy can still get 1-28 twist 45, but not the 1-18.
I picked up the parts to build mine. I have three now that I have built, two 50's, and the one .458
I helped a guy by giving him some help via email how to build his .458, and now he is selling his since Idaho opened hunting back up to inlines. He is asking 550 for it with Lyman sights, to be honest it won't cover the cost of the parts. As good as mine shoots I would doubt that he will be finding any ML that will shoot as good, but that is his decision. Ron

handirifle · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2008, 05:24:08 AM »

I've been tempted to buy a regular 1 -18 45 cal barrel and converting it to a ML. I think one could take the tang and other parts off an old ML barrel and braze them on the new one, with a screw in plug to seal the hole, not worrying if it ever gets opened again.

Has anyone ever done this?