I was wrong about my recent Ballistic Tip

[Coyote Hunter]

Nonya –

Some people use A-MAX bullets for hunting, something I wouldn’t remotely consider even though they have proven extremely accurate in every rifle I’ve used them in.  The fact that I consider them too explosive for hunting does not mean Hornady makes only bad bullets or even that the A-MAX is a bad bullet.  In fact I plan to shoot a lot more of them in the coming years.

By the same token I refuse to use BT’s for hunting because other bullets suit my needs far better.  Again, the fact that I consider the BT’s too explosive for my needs does not mean that Nosler makes only bad bullets or even that the BT is a bad bullet.  In fact I load both AccuBonds and Partitions for hunting purposes and plan to continue to do so.

Yes, some other folks have made comments that were inappropriate but at the same time I’ve had complaints that you get away with saying things that others wouldn’t get away with.  Life isn’t fair and it seems both you and others feel they’ve gotten the short end of the stick.  I suggest everyone accept what is behind us and move on. 

Graybeard has stated  that while blanket rants against a manufacturer are not allowed, you are welcome to discuss your personal experiences.  So let’s hear them.

[NONYA]

Some of the Nosler bullets work great,the PARTITION NEVER LET ME DOWN IN MANY YEARS OF USE ON GAME,so you are mistaken,Im not on a Nosler smear campaign.You dont believe the story but im not a liar?BS!You censor what you dont want to hear,it is becoming very evident here in these forums,if you cant handle other peoples opinions without censorship and threats maybe you should pull my add and delete my account,dont think I want anything to do with a hypocrite.

[Graybeard]

I can handle other people's opinions. You on the other hand seem not so able to do so. Whether you chose to stay or go is your decision alone. Should you stay you will abide by the rules just as everyone else is expected to.

Dunno what's gotten into folks around here lately but we seem to have a few who have cabin fever already or something and just seem to be itching for a fight. The others who left I kinda sorta understood as they and I never saw eye to eye on anything. You on the other hand and I have agreed on far more than we've disagreed on but like them you seem more interested in getting pissed at me and leaving than acting like a man and following the rules and toughing it out. Do as you feel best. I'll do the same.

From the reports I've gotten from a great many most folks seem to think you have enjoyed some special status here that exempts you from the rules of the site and that you can get by with anything. You on the other hand seem to think I pick on you all the time far more than anyone else. Neither is true perhaps eventually all will figure that out. I expect the same standards from all members.

[NONYA]

I have been biting my tongue while the peanut gallery takes shot after shot at me,choosing not to respond in kind so i dont break your precious rules,yet my posts are the ones deleted under the guise that you are preventing a smear campaign,I cant keep up with your rules,seems they only apply to certian people in certian situations.If you hold the same standards to all members then you need to reread some of the most recent posts,mine were deleted for "a nosler smear campaign" while obvious infractions of your rules stand unedited over and over,all i expect is equallity when you decide to enforce the rules,but you choose to ignore certian infractions because they are against people you disagree with,I cant post a single sentence in a thread already about BT failures without it being deleted,go therough the trash can and show me ONE deleted post by me that broke any of the GBO rules.Go back and read my posts where i recommend Nosler partitions as a great hunting bullet(most are in the trash) and then fit that into "the nosler smear campaign",its redicoulus.

[Doesniper]

Nonya is not the only one who has had the Nosler BT fail on big game. I shot a yearling doe at 70 yds with a .243 and bt. I hit her in the shoulder and she just stood there. I shot her again in the head and killed her. While skining and guting her, I noticed the bullet blew up on the shoulder, damaging the meat but no broken bones or internal injury. That was the last time I ever hunted with Balistic Tips.

[nomosendero]

Nonya is not the only one who has had the Nosler BT fail on big game. I shot a yearling doe at 70 yds with a .243 and bt. I hit her in the shoulder and she just stood there. I shot her again in the head and killed her. While skining and guting her, I noticed the bullet blew up on the shoulder, damaging the meat but no broken bones or internal injury. That was the last time I ever hunted with Balistic Tips.

Weight?

[Graybeard]

Fair enough it would be helpful to tell us the weight of the BT you used however. Was it a varmint weight 55 grain or a 95 definitely intended for deer hunting or something in between?

[Sweet 6.5]

 

I think it was the .243 that failed you! If was a .260 or 6.5x55 or a 7.57 or 7-08 loaded with 140gr to +/- 2600
you would have no problem.

Change the rifle!
(they are going to kill me for this one!)

[Mac11700]

I think it was the .243 that failed you! If was a .260 or 6.5x55 or a 7.57 or 7-08 loaded with 140gr to +/- 2600
you would have no problem.

Change the rifle!
(they are going to kill me for this one!)

 

Ohhhhhh Nooooooo...not again...

Sweet...your a brave man...

Mac

[Mac11700]

I have been biting my tongue while the peanut gallery takes shot after shot at me,choosing not to respond in kind so i dont break your precious rules,yet my posts are the ones deleted under the guise that you are preventing a smear campaign,I cant keep up with your rules,seems they only apply to certian people in certian situations.If you hold the same standards to all members then you need to reread some of the most recent posts,mine were deleted for "a nosler smear campaign" while obvious infractions of your rules stand unedited over and over,all i expect is equallity when you decide to enforce the rules,but you choose to ignore certian infractions because they are against people you disagree with,I cant post a single sentence in a thread already about BT failures without it being deleted,go therough the trash can and show me ONE deleted post by me that broke any of the GBO rules.Go back and read my posts where i recommend Nosler partitions as a great hunting bullet(most are in the trash) and then fit that into "the nosler smear campaign",its redicoulus.

Nonya...Here is what I have seen you post about Nosler...Not all mind you...this is just a small fraction of it...I understand your defending your self...but to do so...you keep slamming the product to do it...I'm trying to be as polite as I can here...so...PLEASE don't take this as an attack against you...I am not intending this this way...PLEASE understand this...I am just showing this to you this way...so that you might understand how it appears to many folks...OK...Again...this isn't attacking you or nothing like that...Here goes...

It DID NOT kill the antelope,it knocked it down and it got back up and stumbled in a circle backwards until I put a .45 acp in its head

You have a very very large hole in your antelope going right into the vital area of it...This statement is rather hard to believe after seeing the picture...it really is...Is it possible...yes it is...but still hard to believe...If this had the only thing you said...with out adding anything else to what was said here and elsewhere..it would have been more believable to many more people...but...this wasn't the case...unfortunately... there was more said...

I had this bullet is because of its long range accuracy,much better than anything else I load,and this is the first time I have used them on game and had no idea they were this worthless,Im sure none of you haters have ever made a similar mistake!

I had the same bullet penetrate yotes and antelope prior to this catastrophic failure just as they are supposed

See...here...your saying the bullet is worthless...and indeed...to you bro...they are...but...many many folks will disagree...sure...some will agree...that is granted...but...taking you at face value and that it was the very first time you ever used them...your statement is without merit...no matter how bad they failed for you in the first time out for you...a few failures out of thousands of good reports are to be expected...But...here is the problem with how you posted this...No where did you say...this is my opinion...You are stating this a a fact because of your sole 2 experiences in a couple of days from 1 box of bullets...

The triple shocks are the one bullet I havnt had a problem with thus far,I have had one or two partitions separate and the accubonds are no better than the combined crap I loaded

Yes...you say you like the partitions...but yet...you have to say you had a couple failures with them as well correct...if so...a logical progression to understanding your stance on the Nosler line...would be...you dislike the partitions as well...since according to your other post about the ballistic tips...and having such few failures to date with them...
Also...in another post about the same instance you are contradicting yourself...You said for you it was the first time you ever used them...then said you had used them before and the preformed as they are supposed to...Which are folks to believe... I know in the heat of the moment you can get confused about what you have shot and haven't and what you have already posted 1 place...and keeping tract of it some place else......but it looks bad when you do...and really makes folks not believe anything you have said..or continue to say...Can you see how easily that can be interpreted now? I really hope so...Again...I am not calling you names or alluding to anything...but am just pointing out what you have said...so that you can see how someone else looks at it...OK...

150 gr nosler COMBINED TECHNOLOGY,7mm,2950 fps.Required a finishing shot with the handgun,there isnt a single hole entering the rib cage,it just exploded on impact,looked like i hit it with an rpg,blood and hair filled the air when i pulled the trigger.

Ok...again...I ain't saying you have doctored the photo or nothing like that...so...don't think that's what I am saying...ok... Taking you on face value...and going by what you said...here...and other places about this...you have to remember many folks go to many different sites...The hole at first glance is extreamly large...but...a closer examination of it...one can see ribs broken off in it...If id blew up on contact with the skin...and didn't penetrate any bone...what happened to the ribs...

The bullet never made it to bone,it blew up on the skin,and if you read my original post you would know that 3 days prior to this antelope i had one blow up ON THE RIB right infront of the "plumbing",they blow up on contact with whatever they hit,skin,rib,bone,it made no difference.

Here...your restating this very same phenomenon...Nonya...your are a photographer...and a damn good one too...you should know any one can enlarge the photograph and see it what damage was done...it's not a small file this photo of yours...

MAYBE the bullet just blew up,i know its IMPOSSIBLE for you Nosler lovers to believe but it happened,it wasnt too fast,it didnt hit anything on the way there,it wasnt the wrong bullet it was just a poorly bonded bullet that blew up on the skin of a small game animal at 100 yards,the bullet didnt penetrate more than 2" of muscle,this is a failure in my book

Ok...now here your saying something entirely different...here your saying it didn't go in 2"...I'm sorry...I know I know...by now your getting p/o at me ...but...I am sorry...This is a contradiction that you have stated...Your trying to defend everything you have said up to it...It can't be both ways...either it blew up on the skin...and didn't penetrate 2" of muscle...or it blew thru exactly as your picture shows it did...You have to understand this is my point of view on what you have said...taking you at face value for your posts...

BTW...I thing by now you should know......the Combined Tech Silver BT's aren't bonded...they are a standard cup&core bullet that has a Lubalux coating applied at Winchester...

Lastly...and probably why what folks feel you have conducted a smear campaign agaisnt Nosler...is because you said this...

I have the right to and i will contnue to slam the Nosler Bts,accubonds and CTs every chance I get,you gonna stop me?NO!

This is a pretty damning statement Cole...taken at face value...it really contradicts what you last posted...
 
Please don't misunderstand my intent here Cole..I am not trying to do any thing but show you how it looks from another point of view...taking these statements on face value...I know I was rude to you about this...and I apologize for that...but I feel you yourself have caused this to happen..Further...and here on this 1 thing...I will get a little personal with you...even though I am not a moderator any longer...I still feel as a member here at GBO... a right not to be included in with or referred to as a Nazi...in any shape or form...Your post in which you called me...and all of the fine members here who took issue with your stance on Nosler's bullets Nazi Police... I asked to be removed....and that is the reason it went into the trash can...where it still is...That type of an attack by anyone I won't tolerate...and is an out right violation of the rules...

Please...Please...Please...If in the future...you have an issue with a bullet maker...for any reason...and choose to voice your displeasure about them...try to take the time to post about it...in a manner folks can't discredit you...It does you a disservice...and this site when we all get into a big argument about different issues...Again...I apologize for being rude to you in all the other post about this issue..and I will trouble you no more about it...

Mac

[Coyote Hunter]

Mac-

Here's a link to a modified copy of Nonya's photo.  I enhanced the fill light to provide more detail inside the wound.

[NONYA]

My photo shows exactly what more than a few hunters have described here in various threads,but most of us have all been accused of lies,enhancing our stories,misusing the bullets,taking poor shots and overall lack of hunting ethics because we shot does/fawns,the only smear campaign is the one against those of us who have had a bad experience in the field on game.Just because you have used them and haven't had a problem doesn't prove ANYTHING,look at the number of reports coming in of bullet separation on impact,various calibers,various MVs,various game,various distances,ect,ect.This isnt a group of hunters with something to gain by reporting these incidents,we were trying to inform other hunters before they made the same mistake,and I personally got attacked for it,from every direction,THAT is why I wouldnt drop it,I will defend myself when I am called a liar,in this case i had to discuss the BT failure to do it,I could care less if every single one of you decides to use the Nosler BT but i will not be called a liar when I go out of my way to report an incident that could happen to YOU.Those of you who have taken advantage of the situation just to take cheap shots know who you are and you probably never even use the product you have decided to defend with insults and lies,have fun,ill keep my in field hands on information to myself,sharing here only opens the door for every troll with an ax to grind to take advantage of my willingness to share.I shared that story on several forums and this is the only place i encountered the blind loyalty/ignorance that i have seen here,the one thing I saw on every forum was hunters willing to share similar stories of the BT failure,what a coincidence.i have nothing to prove to anyone here and you wont have to read another field report on any product from me.

[nomosendero]

I thought the company that makes the square pellets for Muzzelloader propellant were all wet for trying to get us to drive a square pellet into a round hole. Boy was I wrong, whew!!!!

You might want to check your powder, that could be the problem. I think I will e-mail the powder companies & see if I can get some
temp-insensitive, square grain powder for my 300. I have never been able to blow a square hole, I'm jealous!!!

[rickt300]

The 10 point buck I took this year was reasonably heavy bodied, the 150 gr. Ballistic Tip hit the bottom edge of the shoulder blade and made on the way in a hole so small I had a hard time finding it. This was a Nosler seconds uncoated CT bullet with a gray tip. Impact velocity had to be at least 2600 fps. The bullet then went on to penetrate the rib cage making a hole 3 inches across or better, came close enough to the spine to damage a couple inches of it,created soup in the chest cavity far enough down that the heart was damaged, went thru the far side of the rib cage making a 4 inch hole, went thru the far shoulder blade low and at the rear of it making a 1 inch hole and out the far side making a triangular tear type hole in the hide as it exited. What I thought was the bullet jacket turned out to be a chunk of spine covered in meat. The buck dropped instantly. I just can't put Nonya's antelope experience and mine in the same picture as they are so different. I will say that bullets have a really tough and short ride so two bullets not acting alike is a real possibility. Would a partition have dropped this buck as quickly, I believe so as the spine was hit, I don't know for sure if it would have done as much damage to the heart and lungs but it would have given fine performance as would just about any other bullet designed for deer.

[coyotejoe]

I now regret that I didn't take photos of the doe I hit in the ribs with the 6.5 BT but the wound would have been very similar to that in NONYA's photo, just farther behind the shoulder. Graybeard suggested maybe NONYA was confusing entrance and exit wounds. I too had to stop and reconstruct the scene in my mind to be sure because I just couldn't believe the gaping hole could be an entrance, but it sure was. It certainly did kill, she went maybe another 10-15 yards, no complaints in that regard, but I'm very glad I didn't hit a shoulder. I also have used that same bullet and load for several deer with complete satisfaction on broadside shots at about 100 yards so I didn't think a quartering shot at 50 yards was anything challenging for the bullet. It seems to me that this bullet has a very narrow range of application for hunting. It is a shame because that was by far the most accurate and flat shooting load I've found but it just seems too specialized and unpredictable for general hunting.

[Graybeard]

Cole to this point there is ONE and ONLY ONE person who has used the term liar in conjunction with what you've posted. That person's user name is NONYA. Surprise! You need to get a grip buddy, just cuz we say we can't buy that or can't really believe that or have some doubts don't mean we're calling you a liar. When I or someone else here wants to call you a liar we'll say something to the effect of "you're lying" until then don't assume just cuz we have doubts that we're calling you a liar and don't accuse folks of calling you a liar when they've not done so.

[Mac11700]

Thanks Coyote...

It still doesn't change anything with what I said about in my previous post about how the story was presented here and elsewhere...it just makes it easier to see..

Cole.. I have apologized to you several times...If you can't accept it at that...I can't help it...I'm not a troll...and I'm not blind..and I'm not some ignorant person who has never used the BT's before..and I have tried to take what you said on face value...the good...and the bad...If that's not good enough for you...I can't help that either...

Mac

[NONYA]

Doubting that my story is factual and calling me a liar are one in the same with me,there is no difference,i dont need a grip,i know what happened.Mac you are completely beyond my concern,I havnt a care in the world for your opinion of me or the story I posted here on GBO,as far as im concerned its a dead issue and you are wasting your time.Im not going to change or retract any part of my story and i no longer give a S^&% if you believe it or not,it is obviously a complete waste of time to share field data here with so many armchair experts to quote company advertisements and data printed by the manufacturer,those of us who have had bad experiences have made changes and it wont happen again,the rest of you probably dont kill enough game for it to ever become an issue so all is well,ignorance is bliss and the sun is shining brightly.

[Mac11700]

Doubting that my story is factual and calling me a liar are one in the same with me,there is no difference,i dont need a grip,i know what happened.Mac you are completely beyond my concern,I havnt a care in the world for your opinion of me or the story I posted here on GBO,as far as im concerned its a dead issue and you are wasting your time.Im not going to change or retract any part of my story and i no longer give a S^&% if you believe it or not,it is obviously a complete waste of time to share field data here with so many armchair experts to quote company advertisements and data printed by the manufacturer,those of us who have had bad experiences have made changes and it wont happen again,the rest of you probably dont kill enough game for it to ever become an issue so all is well,ignorance is bliss and the sun is shining brightly.

It may be a waste of time in your opinion Cole...but at least I thought you were worth the effort to try to explain it as best as I could...I won't make that mistake again...

Mac

[Coyote Hunter]

OK, guys, that's enough bickering.  Mac’s apologized, Nonya, so let’s accept that there was an honest misunderstanding and move on.

It’s my belief that discussions such as this have merit, but only when they focus on the intended subject.  Please take any further personal issues offline through PMs or emails or whatever.

If we can’t do that I’ll have to lock this thread as well.

Thanks,
CH

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

     Well I submit a photo for you all to examine. It's of a red fox shot several years ago at about 60 yards using some factory ammunition:-



   As you can see the damage is extensive and that is the entrance wound pictured. The bullet shaped hole through the ear was caused when the Fox moved and turned it's head as I squeezed the trigger.


 Now this is the whole Fox and the rifle used to shoot it:-



    Now the calibre is .303 British and the ammunition was Winchester 180 Gr SP (White Box) not a round known for it's destructiveness. No I have no idea why this happened and would feel confident using this combination on Deer in future, only if I got results the same as this again would I then re-consider it's use.

[Sweet 6.5]

Brithunter

Great looking .303!

Sweet

[Mac11700]

OK, guys, that's enough bickering.  Mac’s apologized, Nonya, so let’s accept that there was an honest misunderstanding and move on.

It’s my belief that discussions such as this have merit, but only when they focus on the intended subject.  Please take any further personal issues offline through PMs or emails or whatever.

If we can’t do that I’ll have to lock this thread as well.

Thanks,
CH

Works for me...

Mac

[Don Fischer]

Mac-

Here's a link to a modified copy of Nonya's photo.  I enhanced the fill light to provide more detail inside the wound.

First time I've seen thos photo. Are you sure this is a bullet wound? Doesn't look like one to me. There appears to be little if any mussle damage under the skin and the skin is torn in a square shape? There are two drops of blood on the left leg but not a drop of blood anywhere else. The hit would have had to be hard and there should be some kind of crater that there doesn't appear to be and there doesn't appear to be much bloodshot mussle; just a trace at the rear and top. A ping pong ball full of water probably wouldn't have ripped open the skin but I'll bet at about 1500fps it would have left a bigger bruse than that. Anybody mind if I copy this and drop it off with Nolser to look at? If this is what's happening, they need to know and I'll be in Bend in a week or so. Be glad to help.

[Coyote Hunter]

Brithunter -

I suspect the bullet started to open while passing through the ear, causing it to behave abnormally when hitting the more solid body.

[Don Fischer]

I've had one bullet that I know of fail in my life. It was a long long time ago and was a poor choice for what I used it for. The bullet was not at fault. I shot a black bead facing me at well under 100 yds in the chest with a 140gr Sierra out of a hot loaded 7mm Rem Mag. The bullet penetrated the skin and blew a hole under it about the size of a grapefruit that turned into a void. The meat under the fat layer, where the bullet didn't even make it to was all bloodshot, from the concussion I figure. The bear went about 30 yds and layed down sick and another behind the head killed it.

Bullet failure? I think about it now and I'd say no. That was something I did that I never should have done. I decided to take a shot at a bear with a load I was going to try on deer! That same load on deer made an absolute mess of everything in it's path. I've never used that bullet again but I suspect now that it worked exactly as it was designed to. Back up, I did use it in a 7x57 and although there was a ton of distruction if it hit something solid, it also penetrated well and killed very well. I use harder bullets now.

[rickt300]

As far as the antelope goes that is the oddest wound I have ever seen. The center of desruction (depth) is not in the center of the hide tear. It defies reasonable description.

[Doesniper]

The .243 BT was a 95g. It failed on a thin skined soft boned fawn. It failed. Plain and simple. The .243 at 70 yds failed, not the bullet? Are you serious?

[Brithunter]

Hi All,

     Ahhh Sweet 6.5, Thank you, it's a BSA model E from about 1950.

    Now Coyote hunter, Hmmm that never occurred to me but you could be right, especially as it went down the ear instead of just though it. Oh 30-30 Winchester brand 150 Gr HP's also make a mess of Red Foxes. Shot one in nearly the same place with one and it tore it up something terrible. Have to see if I can find the photos of that as well!

[nomosendero]

Brithunter -

I suspect the bullet started to open while passing through the ear, causing it to behave abnormally when hitting the more solid body.

There is a good chance that this is the right explanation. The same thing happens sometimes when a limb is hit just in front of a Deer.