Author Topic: Best Coyote/Bobcat Bullet for .308 Win? (Read 4411 times)

RickC. · « **on:** December 03, 2007, 04:46:45 PM »

So we're seeing a bumper crop of coyotes and bobcats at the hunting club this season-- I've gotten one of each so far, and passed up an easy shot a a big gray coyote this past weekend because I had my .308 Weatherby Vanguard stoked with Speer 165 BTSP and didn't want to blow a big hole in the pelt. I shot a bobcat with that load several years back and it wasn't pretty.

This isn't directly an NEF question (though I own three), but I respect the experience of those here. I have two .308s, and could dedicate one of them as a varmint gun to use in February and early March. I'm reading the reviews of the 100-130 grain varmint and other HP bullets on Midway, and I'm seeing things like "explosive performance", and "softball sized exit hole", which is not what I want. So I'm thinking either "hard" bullets such as some of the Hornadys or possibly FMJ.

Another option would be to just use the 125 gr Ballistic Tips in the .30-30 with which I shot a coyote a couple of weeks ago. I don't know what it is with bobcats, but they always find me when I'm totin' big stuff-- my last two were shot with my NEF .45-70 (405 Rem) and a .54 cal muzzleloader, respectively. Either will work OK for varmints if you don't happen to have something smaller!

Rick

backstrap · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2007, 05:05:36 PM »

I dont think there is a good dog or cat round in a 308 unless it would be a FMJ a little hole going in and going out i would think all other soft nose and hollow point in a 308 would blow them apart leaveing a big exit hole as u talked about u might go to the predator forum and ask them guys

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2007, 05:40:57 PM »

Any .308 load will put a hole in either one you can throw a cat through. Larry

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2007, 05:47:29 PM »

The .308 bullets are made for deer and larger sized critters. If you shoot something like a Coyote or a cat with one there is not enough mass to really make the bullets open. You will get a .308 entrance hole and a .32 exit hole, if that, with the 165 grain bullets. A coyote or cat is what 45 pounds? Deer are 120 and up. That bullet will pop in and out of that predator and not have time to mushroom. The problem comes when you shoot bullets made for small game or varmints and the bullet will distort or come apart on the heavier bone of a predator ( compared to a varmint). The 110 to 125 grain bullets at high speeds from a .308 will make a bullet that was not designed for those speeds to come apart when it hits anything solid. Next time just poke a hole in it with your deer load. The only thing you will have to worry about with your deer load is over penetration and what is behind your critter.
Good luck.

MTGlass · « **Reply #4 on:** December 03, 2007, 05:49:46 PM »

Why not pull apart some military ball ammo and download it to .30/30 specs?

backstrap · « **Reply #5 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:34:23 PM »

Sound like to me if u own a hand u need to buy u a 223 barre lor a 22hornet or 22-250 barrel for these predators u are seeing they would all work nice for the cats and dogs

RickC. · « **Reply #6 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:37:32 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on December 03, 2007, 05:40:57 PM

Any .308 load will put a hole in either one you can throw a cat through. Larry

I am SO going to steal that line! Hahahahaha!

MC- that may well be true concerning deer bullets and 'cats unless you happen to hit bone, but the one bobcat I shot with the Speer 165 was hit through both shoulders at about 30 yards and it was a mess. I'll spare you the details since I never know who's going to be reading this forum.

FMJs loaded to 2300 fps or so is an interesting idea.

A new varmint barrel is also, but there's not time to do that for this season!

Thanks,

Rick

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 03, 2007, 06:46:49 PM »

I think if you hit big bone in a predator, the .308 is going to do some serious damage, but if you can hit ribs only at the most, you'd likely destroy less fur. I've shot a lot of coyotes as incidentals while deer an elk hunting, shooting a 308 Win and 180gr core-lokts and Win failsafes, a solid shoulder or spine hit will cut em in half, all those big bone fragments become multiple secondary projectiles, but gut/boiler room shoot em and the damage isn't so bad. $:-\$

Personally, I've never been able to get past the smell of a coyote enough to finish skinning it, the first and last one I did almost made me puke, but when I shoot em during deer/elk season, they're eating gut piles, so maybe the rest of the year they aren't so bad.

Tim

jandbj · « **Reply #8 on:** December 04, 2007, 06:11:37 AM »

Why not .223 bullets in .30 caliber sabots. Would be similar to Remington's factory "Accelerator" ammunition.
55 grain bullets around 4000 fps would be a definite critter load for what you are proposing.

Bruce A. Hering · « **Reply #9 on:** December 04, 2007, 08:02:09 AM »

If you are handloading, Barnes, at one time, made a solid in a number of cal's just for varmit hunters wh did not want to ruin pelts........... Just a thought.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 04, 2007, 08:28:56 AM »

Quote from: RickC. on December 03, 2007, 04:46:45 PM

So we're seeing a bumper crop of coyotes and bobcats at the hunting club this season-- I've gotten one of each so far, and passed up an easy shot a a big gray coyote this past weekend because I had my .308 Weatherby Vanguard stoked with Speer 165 BTSP and didn't want to blow a big hole in the pelt. I shot a bobcat with that load several years back and it wasn't pretty.

This isn't directly an NEF question (though I own three), but I respect the experience of those here. I have two .308s, and could dedicate one of them as a varmint gun to use in February and early March. I'm reading the reviews of the 100-130 grain varmint and other HP bullets on Midway, and I'm seeing things like "explosive performance", and "softball sized exit hole", which is not what I want. So I'm thinking either "hard" bullets such as some of the Hornadys or possibly FMJ.

Another option would be to just use the 125 gr Ballistic Tips in the .30-30 with which I shot a coyote a couple of weeks ago. I don't know what it is with bobcats, but they always find me when I'm totin' big stuff-- my last two were shot with my NEF .45-70 (405 Rem) and a .54 cal muzzleloader, respectively. Either will work OK for varmints if you don't happen to have something smaller!

Rick

I have used my own cast bullets in 308's & 30-06'sa long time ago with real fair amount of luck...Accuracy wasn't spectacular...but not bad either...The Lyman #48 has a bunch of data for you to use..I made up few hundred 160 grain non gas checked #311672...and driven at very modest velocities will not even mushroom...and are like shooting a 22 mag for recoil...10 grains of Unique at 1400fps...it will penetrate end to end on a full size yote at 50 yards and leave a nice 308 caliber hole all the way thru..Bump it up to 1600fps...same story at 100 yards...I used 16.5 grains of 2400 to get that...I haven't taken any cats with it though...Just slug your barrel and size them accordingly..If you want more yardage...use a gas checked bullet and faster muzzle velocity...

Mac

eskimo36 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 04, 2007, 05:28:43 PM »

Try a 168 grain or larger boattail bullet loaded backwards with that 10 grain load of Unique. Very quiet, hits hard and will shoot very small groups in most 308 guns. It will be effective to a hundred yards or so on coyotes or bobcats and do little pelt damage but starts to drop like a lead ballon after the 100 yard mark. Quiet enough to often call in a second coyote to the same set without packing up and moving calling spots.

ro · « **Reply #12 on:** December 04, 2007, 07:45:13 PM »

rickc, are you wanting to just shoot coyotes and bobcats, or wanting to save the pelts ?

~Ace~ · « **Reply #13 on:** December 05, 2007, 03:14:32 AM »

Stay away from "Tipped" Bullets and Bone.. Like Quick said, through the ribs.. 168 grain SMK's will do the job nicely and will often not damage the hide beyond repair with well placed shots.. But, it's a .308, the chance of Mass Carnage is always present, Especially on a thin skinned Cat... Might try to lip squeek them in for a chest shot aiming for the anus through the chest...

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #14 on:** December 05, 2007, 04:35:49 AM »

No Tim they will pretty much make ya puke all the time... anymore I carry a couple of real heavy plastic bags stuff them in tie it off and drag through the snow to edge of wood lot and call my buddy he can have em. Kurt

Sourdough · « **Reply #15 on:** December 05, 2007, 09:03:40 AM »

Has anyone tried the Speer 125grTNTs for bobcat or coyote? I use them for wolves and they work well. Only an entrance hole no exit. I would think it would be the same for coyote, not sure about smaller bobcat. If it does them like they do a snowshoe hare, don't bother.

I think the best bet would be to go with Barnes solids, hole in and hole out, no expansion. You just might have to track them down.

Tim: Think of skinning 15 coyotes all at once. That's what it's like skinning a Grizzly.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** December 05, 2007, 11:59:52 AM »

Rog, I think I'll leave the griz skinnin to you fellas up north!!

Tim

RickC. · « **Reply #17 on:** December 05, 2007, 12:13:31 PM »

Quote from: ro on December 04, 2007, 07:45:13 PM

rickc, are you wanting to just shoot coyotes and bobcats, or wanting to save the pelts ?

Ro, I'm wanting to salvage the pelts. If this works out I'll have a varmint barrel (or another rifle!) by next season, but that's not an option right now.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #18 on:** December 05, 2007, 12:53:29 PM »

I have bought pulled 150 grain FMJ boat tail .308 bullets from Wiedners for 60 bucks a 1000 last year or so. They shoot great in my great 308.

Cheese

joshco84 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 05, 2007, 02:17:20 PM »

You could neck them down to 243 and buy a 243 barrel to go on your gun

. Just kidding but i think solids or fmj would be about your best bet. I know winchester ballistic silvertips out of a 7mag they have to call CSI in to find out what is was. Same with cor-lokts out of an 06.

Josh

trotterlg · « **Reply #20 on:** December 05, 2007, 02:39:15 PM »

Asking what bullet in .308 is good for Coyotes and Bobcats is like asking what bullets in 17 Remington are good for Bear. The answer to both is "NONE". Trying to make a round do something it is not designed for is stupid! "Shoot a FMJ, so it does a pass through, you may have to track the cat for 5 miles, and you may loose it, but the pelt will be good" Most places that is not even legal. If you want to shoot a Coyote then use something that will kill it where it stands, that would be an Deer round in a .308 or a Varmint round in .204 or .17 Rem. Use the proper tool for the job. Larry

RickC. · « **Reply #21 on:** December 05, 2007, 04:10:22 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on December 05, 2007, 02:39:15 PM

Asking what bullet in .308 is good for Coyotes and Bobcats is like asking what bullets in 17 Remington are good for Bear. The answer to both is "NONE". Trying to make a round do something it is not designed for is stupid! "Shoot a FMJ, so it does a pass through, you may have to track the cat for 5 miles, and you may loose it, but the pelt will be good" Most places that is not even legal. If you want to shoot a Coyote then use something that will kill it where it stands, that would be an Deer round in a .308 or a Varmint round in .204 or .17 Rem. Use the proper tool for the job. Larry

Well Larry, considering that I've killed several bobcats over the years with .308, .45-70, .530 round ball, and #1 buckshot because that's what I happened to be carrying at the time, I'd say I have a fair amount of experience using "deer rounds" on 'cats. Same with the most recent coyote with the .30-30. All were killed where they stood, thank you.

Save your insults, I'm looking for a temporary solution. Unless of course you have a .204 or .17 you'd care to loan me until say, next March, in which case I'll send you my address

Now how's this for an interesting 'yote:

A guy at the club shot this coyote a couple of weeks ago at 218 yards with a .300 Win Mag- 165 gr load, not sure what bullet, right behind the shoulder, no exit. When he went to pick it up, it had this in its mouth:

Rick

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** December 05, 2007, 06:39:28 PM »

Is that a beaver tail?

Tim

trotterlg · « **Reply #23 on:** December 05, 2007, 07:01:02 PM »

Right, I have a 300 Win Mag, and need a fir friendly load for Kit foxes in AZ. Please give me your pet loads. This string is a total joke. Get real guys. Larry

RickC. · « **Reply #24 on:** December 05, 2007, 07:10:01 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on December 05, 2007, 06:39:28 PM

Is that a beaver tail?

Tim

It is indeed. A pretty coyote, but that combo of 'yote and beaver carrion stunk to high heaven!

Larry, the man was deer hunting-- you know, using Deer Rounds (if you want to call .300 Win Mag a deer round). My friend, what I'm after is adapting what I already have to a month of varminting after our deer season closes. Send me that .204 you tell me I need and I'll delete the thread. Deal?

Rick

backstrap · « **Reply #25 on:** December 06, 2007, 06:25:06 AM »

whats a Joke about it? i dont see any thing wrong with a guy asking what bullet to use in a rifle to get him by tell he can get a new barrel or a new rifle next year not all of us have the money just to go out and buy a new rifle suitable for a purpose or another he is geting by with what he has for now i see nothing wrong with that . If u dont like whats being talked about on this subject then dont read it IF u thank its a joke

gr8ful · « **Reply #26 on:** December 06, 2007, 06:51:08 AM »

I also think it is a valid question, not everyone has the luxury of buying a new barrel or a new rifle. I am sure if we could, we rifle nuts would have a barrel or new rifle in every caliber from .14 to .600, on every type of action from handi's to full auto's. However if limited to one rifle in .308 caliber I think I would go with the barnes X or Triple Shok X bullet in a regular deer load, and try to take shots that avoid heavy bone. Or if it is legal where you hunt just use FMJ and avoid heavy bone.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #27 on:** December 06, 2007, 07:34:36 AM »

Quote from: trotterlg on December 05, 2007, 07:01:02 PM

Right, I have a 300 Win Mag, and need a fir friendly load for Kit foxes in AZ. Please give me your pet loads. This string is a total joke. Get real guys. Larry

Believe it or not...I actually know a fellow who uses a 300 WM for most of his rifle hunting needs...He used to use a Weatherby Mag he got from his dad when he passed away...but hated it...I don't know why...it was a beautiful rifle and was pretty darn accurate...so he traded it.and got a Winchester....He's kinda of a strange guy...and he is the one who talked me into trying cast bullets in the first place...He made all of his own bullets & round balls for his old flint locks...any way...he loved to shoot...a-lot...and he hated to spend money...so...he used his cast bullets for everything...He used the same bullet I mentioned earlier and a flat point in it...and shot more coyotes than any one I have ever known...They shot real good for him...Now...I personally wouldn't use the rifle as he did and at the time thought he was goofy......but...he never blew himself up or wrecked his rifle...and still is using it as he did then...and that was over 20 years ago...BTW Larry...I'm pretty sure he was using Unique powder and regular Winchester LR primers...The 170 grain flat point he used then didn't kick as hard as my 30-30 Winchester...and I would love to have some of the skull mounts of the deer & bear he has from using it...It's kind of funny reading this thread...folks can make do with just about anything if they try...and some do real good at doing just that...I might just have to pick up a new mold and scrounge up some wheel weights...just to see how it might do with my new fluted Ultra 270 Handi...Might be interesting ehh

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** December 06, 2007, 07:43:59 AM »

The cast bullet idea sounds the best to me so far, if you don't cast, Western sells several gas checked .309" bullets to choose from, and their price is right.

Tim

http://www.westernbullet.com/cbip/cbip.html

njanear · « **Reply #29 on:** December 06, 2007, 08:42:07 AM »

I just had a buddy ask me a few weeks ago as to what bullet he should shoot through his 7mm Rem Mag to take a bobcat that he had seen around his property. I told him "none"

- because (a) the season hadn't opened at that time (Georgia has a bobcat season of 12/1 to 2/29 - which is the same for fox) and (b) you can only use "small game firearms" (i.e. rimfires, air rifles, muzzleloaders and shotguns) on them. You can use anything you want on coyote though.

Why do I tell this story? Just to make sure that everyone checks their regulations to make sure you don't get in trouble with the local Game Wardens/Rangers by using something that you shouldn't or shooting something out of season. It may not be a problem where you are at but it sure would be here in GA...

Now my friend is wanting to get a .22WMR..