Author Topic: Topic drift to casting stuff  (Read 720 times)

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Offline lance

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Topic drift to casting stuff
« on: December 10, 2007, 03:23:20 PM »
 Mike and Tracy, i was digging through my books looking for a 2.5", finally gave up after you posted that it was really 4.5".............. if building a foundry works out, i hope i can read your writing for a casting, don't want to cast the wrong size ya know ;D
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline seacoastartillery

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Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2007, 04:00:15 PM »
     Hello OL CODGA, do you think that your coehorn reproduction mortar is based on the British Coehorn we pictured or not?  Is there a George III cipher on the top or not?

Spuddy, are you really telling us that the only reason the Capitol caper didn't happen was because you lacked two or three pounds of powder?   ;) ;) ;) ;)

And finally Lance; just keep one number in mind, Lance.  That number is 16.  16", Bronze mortar, Model 1839.  That's the only one that we are interested in.  Make sure you will have a pouring capacity of at least 1,500 pounds.  Ammo, leave that up to us; we have plenty of washed river-rock around here! 

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline lance

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Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2007, 04:28:40 PM »
   

And finally Lance; just keep one number in mind, Lance.  That number is 16.  16", Bronze mortar, Model 1839.  That's the only one that we are interested in.  Make sure you will have a pouring capacity of at least 1,500 pounds.  Ammo, leave that up to us; we have plenty of washed river-rock around here! 

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
1,500 pounds!!! i'm really wanting a very small one, to fix some of the old horse drawn equipment i have. never can find anyone to make small odd shaped parts. i never intended to cast any cannons or mortars, just small brackets and weird shaped antique equipment parts, anything bigger than that,SCARES ME
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!

Offline Double D

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Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2007, 05:01:57 PM »
Blink!! That's the sound of the light bulb coming on.  Near where I will retire is a sculpturer who works in large bronzes---like full size buffalo.  Do you folks thing that might be a good place to check in to seeing if they would cast me a bronze gun from my pattern.

Maybe even go so far as to make my own casting box and just see if they would pour the metal?

Offline seacoastartillery

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Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2007, 06:34:06 PM »
     That's a logical idea.  Mike and I just went out to lunch with our sculptor friend today.  Although he does mostly smaller pieces like beaver, eagles, coyote and similar sized wildlife, we are pretty sure he uses a bronze art-foundry that can also cast big commercial or municipal jobs the size of your buffalo or maybe a bit larger.  As far as making a casting box or flask, that is what an art-founder is used to because these are almost all one-offs or extremely low production pieces.  Although many of the molds are lost-wax produced, some of the larger pieces with simpler shapes are sand castings.  Certainly wouldn't hurt to ask.  One additional benefit of inquiring at an art foundry is that they, unlike a production foundry, aren't like to laugh their fannys off when you answer their first question which is, "How many do you want?" with the typical answer of "One".

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2007, 07:21:55 PM »
Blink!! There's that light bulb coming on again... 

I think I better find me a wood turning lathe...bronze cannon time.  Ii do have so wood turning centers that I found for my metal lathe...gee I better go over  to Browning and visit that Sculpture

Now back the Seacoast mortar cheeks--- I could make right and left cheek patterns and run them over to Hern Iron Works, they are just over the hill in Coeur d'Alene about 350 miles...wife has the relatives across the border in Spokane.

I am going to use the  G word here so those of you who are sensitive to such things  look away.  Would anyone be interested in a Group buy for cast iron cheeks of the 10 inch Seacoast mortar scaled to pop can size bore?

Frankly I don't like Group Buys.  Oh don't get me wrong they are a good way to get something hard to get at a fairly reasonable price.  But you always end up with that one whiney snively guy who has no patience drives you up the wall griping and complaining.

 


 

Offline GGaskill

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Re: Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2007, 08:43:24 PM »
Before you get too carried away with the cast iron, you should calculate the total weight of the mortar (scale ratio cubed times weight gives 105 lbs; my rough estimate is 250 lbs.)  And then maybe consider making the cheeks in aluminum.
GG
“If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.”
--Winston Churchill

Offline Double D

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Re: Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2007, 09:46:24 PM »
For the  cheek stock at 21" x 7" x 2 1/4"  plate I figured weight at a little over 200 lbs before the part that isn't a cheek is cut away.  250 lbs with cast is even better.

I figure 190 lbs for the tube. 


Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2007, 12:37:10 AM »
Blink!!
...
I am going to use the  G word here so those of you who are sensitive to such things  look away.  Would anyone be interested in a Group buy for cast iron cheeks of the 10 inch Seacoast mortar scaled to pop can size bore?

Frankly I don't like Group Buys.  Oh don't get me wrong they are a good way to get something hard to get at a fairly reasonable price.  But you always end up with that one whiney snively guy who has no patience drives you up the wall griping and complaining.

It's easy:   PRICE SCHEDULE

Normal Price:   $ "A"
Whining Price   $ " 2 x A"
etc.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
Cat Whisperer
Chief of Smoke, Pulaski Coehorn Works & Winery
U.S.Army Retired
N 37.05224  W 80.78133 (front door +/- 15 feet)

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2007, 07:58:32 AM »
     Tim, you really have a great idea there.  What a wonderful way of winnowing out worthless whiners!  Mike and I want to be the first to sign up for a group price.  Getting a little older as we are, lighter mortars seem like a good idea.  Years ago a friend had a soda-can mortar and it went off with a lot of authority!  Mike and I studied this mortar's design and excellent photos of it in "Wikipedia", found by entering "Siege Artillery in the Civil War", yesterday after work, and believe we can put your scale 10" Seacoast Mortar on a diet that will shed as much as 1/3 of that 250 Lbs without changing materials or altering the original shape.  After you find those photos, look at the one featuring a pair mounted on Morris Island by Federal troops in order to bombard Fort Sumter.  This very high resolution photo can be enlarged several times until you can see that the cheeks of it's bed are hollow, just like the ones on our 1/2 scale 1797, 8" U.S. Land Service Siege Mortar. 

    George is correct,  105 pounds will be the scale tube weight.  Add the windage factor, 1/40th, to the can diameter,(2.60+.065), then divide the original bore diameter,10.00", by that amount, (10.00/2.665=3.752) to get the scale factor.  Cube this amount, (3.752 x 3.752 x 3.752= 52.82 ) to get the divisor.  Divide the original tube weight by your divisor to get your scale tube's weight, (5,575lbs/52.82=105.55lbs.).  See, George and the seacoast guys saved you 85 lbs already!  Just kidding, the real weight savings comes from the fact that the cheeks are hollowed out on the inside, so while the flange all the way around the cheek may be as wide as 5", the actual thickness of the load bearing web is probably only 3/4".  Without a drawing of the bed, it is difficult to know for sure, but we are betting that the inside of the cheek is a flat surface and that the protrusion visible on the outside, middle surface, is an increase in cheek thickness to about 1.5" in the area under and around the trunnions to take the shock of firing.  Figuring the scale thicknesses and calculating the weights for all the sections, we figure each cheek will weigh approx. 30 lbs. or 60 for the pair.  Add this to the 105lb. tube and you get 165lbs.  To this, add about 5 lbs of hardware and 10 lbs. of oak or maple transoms and you get approx 180lbs total.  It will be quite a bit easier to move this than a 250 pounder!  We speak from experience;  our 1/2 scale 1797 mortar with it's 200 lb. tube weighs 275lbs and is a beast to move any distance!  This is our best guesstimate; actual casting results could be a bit different. 

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
Smokin' my pipe on the mountings, sniffin' the mornin'-cool,
I walks in my old brown gaiters along o' my old brown mule,
With seventy gunners be'ind me, an' never a beggar forgets
It's only the pick of the Army that handles the dear little pets - 'Tss! 'Tss!

From the poem  Screw-Guns  by Rudyard Kipling

Offline Double D

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Re: Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2007, 08:42:23 AM »
Actually the inside is not flat.  From the Trunnion back the Cheeks are 9 1/2" thick  Trunnion forward 6 inches.  There is inlet for fore and aft transoms.  I would scan them in. but the drawings are too big form my scanner.  My scale factor from the oriignal drawing is  3.75 (3.749)

And I want the weight.  One of the things I noticed at Ft Shenandoah was the heavier guns shot better. 

The Mortar has a lifting eye and is intended to be moved in two parts.  A simple A-Frame with windlass setup to lift, back trailer hooked to the golf cart under the gun lower it on the trailer drive it into the shop and unload in reverse order.




Offline Artilleryman

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Re: Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2007, 09:25:14 AM »
I have always been impressed with what Hardaway's Battery been doing.  DD you are right, generally speaking the heavier mortars do better.   
Norm Gibson, 1st SC Vol., ACWSA

Offline lance

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Re: Topic drift to casting stuff
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2007, 03:01:26 PM »
 just so happens that an old gunsmith friend called me today, the talk drifted to foundrys. he told me forget trying to build one, him and his friends go to the ELLISTON FOUNDRY.... TIM,do you know about that one? it's in the neighborhood. anyway my friend said they do one of a kind or short runs, also said him and his buds have been getting bronze cannons and mortars cast there. so we can do group buys in Virginia or Montana......................it costs HOW MUCH to ship, just practicing whining ;D
PALADIN had a gun.....I have guns, mortars, and cannons!