Valmet 412 vs Savage 2400

[Drilling Man]

   I've read on this site and a couple others around the net that the Valmet 412, and the Savage 2400 are the same gun with "minor" differences.   So i decided to take some picts of both to try and clear this up.

  Here's some picts of my Valmet 412 along side my Savage 2400.

  Top pict: Notice the differences in the shape of the actions and the protrusions through the action of the 2400...

  Bottom pict: Look at the huge differences in how the action is machined. NOTHING in the top 2400 action interchanges into the bottom 412 action.  The 412 is even machined to accept the 412 bbls "recoil lug" that gives the 412's a lot of strength over the 2400's.



  I didn't clean anything for these picts., they have grease on them for rust protection, and in the case of the 412 bbl., i pulled it NEW, right out of the origional box for this pict...

  Here are the monobloc and bbls...  There's a HUGE difference in them, and you can see the recoil lug on the 412 mono bloc, and all the extra steel in them.



  Top pict:  Look at the difference in those bbls, there's a huge amount of steel in the 412 bbls, that the 2400's don't have.  They are nothing alike...

  Bottom pict:  The 2400's used the "Sako" mounting system, the 412's used their own 412 mount.  I have seen some "very early" 412's with the Sako mount though.  (i have a few prototype bbls with it)



  "I" suggested to Valmet that the double shotgun bbls "also" get machined to accept the 412 mount, and they liked the idea and started doing so...  That's why you see the newer production bbls machined to accept 412 mounts...

  I'm also the one who got Valmet to import double 9.3x74R bbls, as i was very good friends with the vice prez of Valmet USA. (Bob Sheridan)  I talked him into bringing a couple sets back as personal "luggage" for "me" when he returned from one of his many trips to the Valmet factory.  It's the only way they could be brought in, as the 9.3's weren't on there import license.

  This was no small task talking Valmet into doing this, and i don't believe they ever would have done so without my urgeing, as they were 100% against it.  The way i got them to do it was to "guarentee" them i'd buy the first (20) sets they brought in!  I advertised them in Shotgun News and they sold out in no time at all, and Valmet who was watching, "then" agreed to put them on as regular stock!  Later, Bob told me his phone rang off the hook!!!

  YES Valmet "did" make the 2400's for Savage, but they are NOT the same gun as Valmets 412 that came later!

  There is lots of inaccutare info on 412's around the net, and i hope this clears up some of it...

  DM

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

Drilling Man;  That settles it!  My O/U from Sweden is the Scandinavian, or original, version of what was imported as the Savage 2400.

I'm keeping it because the .222 barrel is deadly accurate!

[dougk]

Drilling Man
thanks for sharing the facts with hard evidence...

Given there are differences, does one shoot better than the other?
Doug

[AkMike1]

So how does the Tikka brand fit into this line up?

[Drilling Man]

  My 2400 is a tack driver, as has been all the 412's that i've shot... And everyone else who i've talked to that owns a 2400 has said the same...  I've "heard" that the models in .308 Win. that were used with heavy loads would loosen up and that's why Valmet made the changes to update to the 412's...

  When the 412's went to Itally, i was VERY unhappy and quit selling them...  I had a feeling the steel in them would not be of the same quality as it had been, and time has proven that to be accurate.  Since that time, i've talked to several guys that do a lot of hunting, that have told me the 412's were better guns than the 512's...

  The guy that did much of my bbl work on the 412's always told me, "these things have the best quality steel i've seen in a bbl".  He also charged me $10.00 per bbl extra, because of it's "toughness", that made him have to go slower.

  DM

[pastorp]

Thanks DM. Answers a lot of questions I've had about these two models. Byron

[AkMike1]

So how does the Tikka brand fit into this line up?

 Is there a relationship between the Tikka and the Valmet?

[Drilling Man]

So how does the Tikka brand fit into this line up?

 Is there a relationship between the Tikka and the Valmet?

  Valmet designed and built the 412's and then sold the patent and tooling to Tikka.  Tikka moved everything to Italy and started calling them 512's.

  DM

[Brithunter]

Hmmm I wonder if it was Beretta that moved production seeing as they own Tikka.

[dougk]

I think Tikka moved production to Italy before they where purchased by Beretta.

[ghurka]

Thanks for the heads up! I've got a 2400 in .308 and currently use the Weaver 2 piece scope mount/adaptor but would like to go to just Sako rings. Who makes them now for a reasonable price?

[Sir Charles deMoutonBlack]

The last set I got at a gunshow, quite a few years ago.

[flaflash]

DRILLING MAN --IF YOU HAVE ASEC PLS CHECK MY MESSAGE TO YOU IN THE 2400 STRING THANKS KELLY

[jonzzy]

How about the tikka 12-70. Is this a early version of the 412? It looks quite different. I would think the 412 hammerless would be heavier.

[pandabear]

HUllo everybody. I am from Strathalbyn in South Australia, so a long way from you fellows.
My question , I guess, is addressed to Drilling Man.  I have a 412s with several barrel sets, 12g/12g, 12g/30-06, and12g/223, all very satisfactory.  Recently, I purchased a set of 9,3*74R double barrels.  I would appreciate your suggestions for the best procedure to sight in and regulate the two barrels.  I am using Sellier & Bellott factory ammo, and would like to set the barrels up to be shooting with the top barrel hitting 2 inches high at 100metres and the bottom barrel 1 inch high. That way they would be shooting parrallel, and be ok out to 150 metres.  The trouble is that you can spend an awful lot of money just sighting in, and the ammo is not cheap.
Thanks for your, and anyone else's , help

[Drilling Man]

HUllo everybody. I am from Strathalbyn in South Australia, so a long way from you fellows.
My question , I guess, is addressed to Drilling Man.  I have a 412s with several barrel sets, 12g/12g, 12g/30-06, and12g/223, all very satisfactory.  Recently, I purchased a set of 9,3*74R double barrels.  I would appreciate your suggestions for the best procedure to sight in and regulate the two barrels.  I am using Sellier & Bellott factory ammo, and would like to set the barrels up to be shooting with the top barrel hitting 2 inches high at 100metres and the bottom barrel 1 inch high. That way they would be shooting parrallel, and be ok out to 150 metres.  The trouble is that you can spend an awful lot of money just sighting in, and the ammo is not cheap.
Thanks for your, and anyone else's , help

  Did you ck. the new bbls for "proper" fit?  Just because they go on your action, doesn't mean they are properly fitted.  This should be done by someone who KNOWS what they are doing!
 
  As for regulation:  START at 25 yards...  Once they are close to where you want them, move to 50 yards. ect...
 
  Put 2 targets up, one over the other.  Fire the bottom bbl first and at the bottom target...  Then fire the top bbl at the top target.  Mark the targets after every shot so you don't get confused.
 
  With the muzzle of the gun pointed UP, to make the bottom bbl shoot higher, move the center adjustment band up, to make it shoot lower, move it down.
 
  You only have to move it a tiny amount and for final regulation you will only be moving it a few thousands...
 
  To get one bbl over the other, you loosen one screw on the side of the muzzle and tighten the other...
 
  MAKE SURE you don't over tighten the regulation screws!!  AND use a "proper" fitting screw driver!
 
  Take your time, do it right the first time, and if your shots don't feel good, don't count them!  If things aren't going well, STOP for that day, and try again another...
 
  When i was regulateing 412's all the time, i could do it in 8 to 10 shots...
 
  DM

[pandabear]

Thank you for your help Drilling Man.  As for fit, I had an old experienced shotgun armourer  look at it, and he passed it as satisfactory.  He did not check head spacing though.  Should it be done, and can you do it with known thicknesses of paper?
I understand that the action of this combo is the same as/taken from the Remington 32 action, and also the Kreighoff K80 is the same/similar.  Are they all the same action, and if not , how do they vary?  Why did Remington cease production?

[Drilling Man]

Thank you for your help Drilling Man.  As for fit, I had an old experienced shotgun armourer  look at it, and he passed it as satisfactory.  He did not check head spacing though.  Should it be done, and can you do it with known thicknesses of paper?
I understand that the action of this combo is the same as/taken from the Remington 32 action, and also the Kreighoff K80 is the same/similar.  Are they all the same action, and if not , how do they vary?  Why did Remington cease production?

  The headspace is the most important of all...  I'd want it closer than the thickness of a piece of paper.  Same for all the bbls you have, not just the rifle bbls...
 
  All the actions are "similar" but they aren't the same!
 
  DM

[pandabear]

Thanks DM.  I do not know of anybody over here with 9.3*74R headspace gauges.  How much space should be between the cartridge and the face of the action when closed?  I would have thought that it should be zero.  If that is the case , would it be satisfactory to check the headspace by fixing shims to the back of the bullet in progressively increasing thickness to see when a gap can be demonstrated between the barrel face and the receiver face?  I would presume that it would best if that "gapping" would happen with .001" , or less, thickness of shim, and, it would have to be demonstrated  independently with both top and bottom barrel.
I bought the firearm secondhand , and it came with the other 3 barrel sets, and they all shoot very well.  One odd thing is that the 12g/.223 was originally .222, and it had been re-chambered and re-stamped on the side of the barrel set as .223, so it would appear that it has had some competent work done on it at some time.  The receiver face is smooth and unmarked, but the is a little bit of discolouration of the metal around the firing pin.  I have not seen any distortion of the primers after firing in either of the .223 or 30-06.
I really like the set-up and use 1.25-4 Trigicon, 1.5-5 Seadler, and 1.75-5 Lightforce scopes.
Thanks once again for you help.