What caliber do I need?

[mcwoodduck]

In a few of the reloading manuals has 308 winning the speed race in the 165 grain race.  And due to internal ballistics it is a more accurate case.  Of course at deer ranges a deer will not know if it was hit with a 308 or 06.  Heck most of the military calibers that were developed from the late 19th century to the mid 20th are all going to be about the same general diameter.  .264-321.  And moving up to 3000 feet per second with a 140 to 200 grain bullet.  Take any of the 6.5's through the 8mm Mauser.  They all make great hunting rounds.  6.5 Swede, 303 Brit, 308 Win, 30-06, 30-40Krag, 7mm Mauser, 7.65 Argintine, 8 Mauser.  The list can go in and on.   I think it's a matter of personal preference.
You do have a point about 308 being the same shape and size as the 7-08 but a simple ballistic tip will have a different color tip for each caliber.  If it's green it goes in the 308.  But generally I do not have spare round from one gun in my pocket when I'm carrying another gun.
One last reason for the 308.  There are more loading offered by more companies than 30-06.
Partsman
What are you looking to spend on the rig?  Remember to leave money so you can buy ammo and actually feed the new toy.
If your looking at the CZ it would be perfect for the 06 since the 308 is on the same size action.  The only down side of the 06 is that they do not make a detachable Magazine.

[rbergum95]

.25-06, 6.5x55, .270, .30-06. any or all of those would suit your needs.

[thumbcocker]

270 winchester.

[Top Cat]

308...30-06...300 WM...are all great rounds and will take any game in North America....I own several of each, and a favorite 300 Weatherby Mark 5 as well...but...

You are already familiar with the 7-08, and that round is just as good and maybe a better choice than all of those, considering all that it brings to the table. Available in very compact and light rifles with low recoil...lower than any of the above...the 7-08 is suitable for any game in NA as well. I am not sure if you are a re-loader, but a 120 TSX loaded to 3200 fps hits hard and shoots very flat out to 450 yards and beyond, and is hard to keep inside any game animal, even Grizzly.

A stock Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic will usually shoot well right out of the box, and  would serve you very well and be a very affordable combo.

TC

[The Gamemaster]

I think that this topic is retarded.

The first question should be how much of a real budget do you have?

If it is less than $500 and you want to buy a rifle and a scope about all you are going to get is a package gun such as a Savage with a Bushnell 3 x 9 x 40 scope.

As far as other comments goes, calibers of guns are like opinions - everybody has one and most of them are different than everyone elses.

As far as comparing a 7 MM Remington Magnum and a .300 Winchester Magnum - there is no difference in Muzzle flash or recoil.  They both reach out about the same and will do the same job with good quality bullets.

You have to know what you intend on hunting before you can buy a rifle or ammo.

Unless there is no one in your area that can advise you on what gun would work best for what you plan on using it for - there is no way that someone on the internet can convince you otherwise.

If you do not have any friends that are firearms owners, join a gun club and make some friends.

There isn't a rifle in my inventory that I wouldn't let someone responsible shoot anytime they wanted.  You aren't going to hurt them by running a couple of dozen shells through the barrel.
As long as you are paying for the ammo and I get to keep the empties - what's the difference.

A .280 Remington - which was first marketed as a 7 mm Remington Express is nothing more than a 30'06 that was necked down to .284

There is no real advantage to using a 280 over a 270 or a 30'06 or a .308 Winchester.  All of them are good calibers in the right hands.  There is no real advantage of using a Winchester rifle over a Remington or a Remington over a Savage.  They are all fine firearm manufacturers.

Buy what your budget allows and put the rest of your money into the best scope you can afford.

[PartsMan]

"The Gamemaster" thinks I'm retarded.
Have you even read my posts?

I asked what Caliber. Money has nothing to do with that.
I know that I will be hunting deer with my "deer rifle". Duh.
I have many friends that shoot on line and in person.
The 280 has the already stated advantage of using bullets I already have on my bench.
Yes I did realize it would need a scope.

PartsMan

[Cheesehead]

I have been enjoying this thread. So I must be retarded as well. Nice comment? NOT!

CHEESE

[burntmuch]

I Thought this  type of topic was perfect for this forum. What type topics are we supposed to talk about? 

[bajabill]

If you were playing Monopoly, you would have just been given the "Do not pass go, go directly to  30-06"

And its not because of how it compares in real life to anything close to it.  Its because you are on a quest to gather chamberings (I think) and you dont have one of the standards, if not the standard.  Get this one out of the way first - then go for the things that people think are different and own just to say they have something that is not common.  If you are going with the grain, or against the grain, the grain is still directing you.

[StrawHat]

I also enjoy this sort of topic.

 Don't think I am retarded but then again I wouldn't know it if I were.  My kids think I am.

I am opinionated (as are some others on this forum,) does that make me retarded?

Anyway, have you narrowed your caliber choice down any?

Between the 270, 280 and 30-06 I don't see a whole lot of difference, but that is just my perspective based on zero experience with the two smaller calibers.

[Mac11700]

I thought it was a good topic too.....I wouldn't worry about it Partsman...getting different opinions (even retarded ones )..never hurt anyone...after all...they're just opinions...Heck...look at mine...I prefer 26" barrels on all of my rifles...many don't...so  maybe I'm retarded too...I've been called worse

[The Gamemaster]

I said retarded as in the fact that it has no logic and makes no sense.

In my opinion, the only reason why Partsman started the topic was to get people to talk to him.

Now come on now.

I have lot's of guns, and I wouldn't buy an extra gun with just the logic that I am going to buy it because I have bullets on the reloading bench that I can use in it.

I buy bullets all the time, I use bullets all the time, it doesn't matter one way or another if I buy .270 or 30 caliber bullets, they are all going to get used sooner or later.

Using the logic that I already have bullets for a 7mm'08 and think that they will be sufficient enough for a 7MM Remington Magnum isn't really the right choice.

Me personally I look at bullet construction and what one bullet will do at 2600 fps compared to what it will do being shot out of a gun that will make it travel 3000 fps isn't the same thing.

You have to compare apples to apples.

The other point I was trying to make is that nobody can tell me what caliber or what kind of gun to buy.  That part has to be up to me.  There has to be a reason why I want a second or third or fifth or tenth rifle in my cabinet.

It could be butt ugly and shoot like a million bucks and I might still get rid of it, just because I didn't like it.  On the other hand, it could be the nicest gun in the world, and not hit the broad side of a barn and I will still sell it once I have shot it and found out what it is capable of.

That is the reason why I said that you should JOIN a Gun Club.

There will be many members there that will have firearms and are knowledgeable of their uses and will show you the proper way to go about looking at and buying firearms.  If it was just a matter of being loyal to one brand, I would only have Remington's in my gun rack.  But there is nothing wrong with the Winchesters or the Savages or the Marlins or the Browning's.  All of which I have had and still have.

The best gun I ever got rid of was a Model 88 / .308 Winchester lever action rifle with a very low serial number.  I saw dollar signs and thought that just doubling my money was a pretty good investment.  I sold it for $500 after just shooting one deer with it.  Now it is worth double that amount and I wish that I never would have sold it.

So out of all the guns in the world, if you asked me for advice on one gun to buy it would be the Model 88 / .308 Winchester - pre 64.

[Mac11700]

No offense...but I think your opinion about Partsman is kind of retarded...He has plenty of folks who like talking to him...and he didn't just need to make a post here to do that...Besides...even if that were the case...isn't that we are supposed to do here...talk to one another?

Mac

[burntmuch]

I dont even know what to say here. Lets say Im at a party. Theres a group of guys in the corner talking about something I have no interest in . I do not walk over & call them retarded.  Same on this forum. If you come across a topic that you think is RETARDED. Just pass. Keep looking for one that isnt. & if you dont have anything nice or constuctive to say.  SHUT THE @#$# UP.

[PartsMan]

This topic has gotten off topic.

I would like to thank you guys for your opinions and I will consider most of them.

The truth is that anything from a 243 to 338 mag would do what I want from this rifle.
I probably won't get one until after the new year.
Most likely get the one that fits good and is a good deal.

[burntmuch]

Hey parts man. You may want to consider a caliber that you cant get for your handi.  35 whelen . What I do Is When I look at guns just pick them up see how they feel. Then look at calibers.. & Like I said Im partial to older remington 700s . Good luck

[dw06]

I like talking to partsman,and never thought of him as retarded,well maybe once 

Hey partsman I just stopped in wallyworld today and ours still have remington 700s in 270,30-06,and 7mag for $325.They have the synthetic stock but could be swapped out for what you want and sell the synthetic.Might be a good way to start and not a bad price if a wal-mart near you has some.Just a thought.

[myronman3]

first thing i would do is get away from the handi's.    pick a platform you want to work with.  next i would start cruising for a used gun.  you should be able to get more for your buck buying used, and guns like rugers the company stands behind, even if you are not the original buyer.   

next  i would decide if you want a gun in a caliber that covers a power range you dont have,  or are you just after better accuracy?  if the later,  keep up with the 7-08 in a better platform.  if you are after a power level you dont have,  decide what exactly you want to do.  the 7-08 will do alot.   

so which is it?  a different power level or a more accurate rifle? 

p.s.  not intending to slam on handi's,  but it seems you are seeking a gun that delivers a bit more than you are getting right now.   that is how i read it anyhow...

[30-30man]

There is no reason for anything other than a 30-06 in a bolt gun. What other caliber has as many choices as the 30-06? It will stretch out and touch them as well as anything made.  There is a reason everybody and his brother has one.  Bullet choices are endless and with the Hornady light mag bullets, it's close to any 30 cal. magnum.  Don't buy weird stuff that will give you the hassle of finding shells or brass. The 30-06 can shoot farther than most of us are capable.  Don't let the ballistic tables confuse you. Good luck.......There is a seat empty on the short bus if your interested.  There is nobody sitting next to me....

[nomosendero]

A 30-06 is a very good choice, but far from the only choice.

Parts Man, I believe that it would be helpful if you decide 2 things for now:
1. What is the biggest animal you want to shoot.
2. What is the maximum yardage that you plan to be proficient.
Most other items such as weight, caliber, need for bedding & other enhancements, barrel length, optics, etc, all of these things can be determined, but you have to know your goal/destination. After that we can get a map & get there.

[victorcharlie]

I'm amazed by the choice in factory ammo with the 30.06.....

Fact is, if you can't find it for the 06......they don't make it.......just walk down the ammo isle and you'll see the 06 loaded with Barnes, Speer, Nosler, Sierra, Hornady, Swift, etc...etc....etc......the choices available to the non-reloader are a huge plus for the caliber........

[PartsMan]

so which is it?  a different power level or a more accurate rifle? 

Yes please.

I want a rifle that will hit and kill a big whitetail that kept at 400+ yards.
I realize that will take a lot of practice from me and may never happen but I don't want my gun holding me back.

[Cheesehead]

Looks like we are back to the 7mm Remington Magnum. You might as well take a larger leap and step into the magnum world. The 7mm Mag kicks less than many other larger magnums. It shoot VERY flat, reducing human error in range estimation. Many rifles are chambered for it and loaded ammo and brass components are readily available. You can use the same bullets as the 7mm/08 in most loadings. This cartridge has held 10 shot group world records at 1000 yards. It would work well on small antelope to large moose. I gotta go, my short bus is waiting.

Cheese

[Mac11700]

so which is it?  a different power level or a more accurate rifle? 

Yes please.

I want a rifle that will hit and kill a big whitetail that kept at 400+ yards.
I realize that will take a lot of practice from me and may never happen but I don't want my gun holding me back.

If you mean anchor them to the spot at 400 yards...good luck...There are plenty of cartridges that will kill at 400 yards +...but none are a guarantee they will anchor them there..

I've taken deer at well over that range with the 25-06 on up...Some have run a ways...but most expire with in 100 yards give or take...Most is going to depend on you..the ammo..and the rifle to do your collective parts....

A magnum will get you there quicker..and have more authority when it hits...but..like I said...it's no guarantee it will kill any better than a non magnum on a miss placed shot...or even on a perfect shot...that will be up to the constitution of the animal you shoot...

Now...for just 400 yards + whitetails...Hmmm..

257 Weatherby...270 Weatherby..7mm Weatherby...all 3 can take larger game need be..

264 Win Mag

270 WSM...often over looked...

280 AI...7mm Remington SAUM 7mm mag..7mm STW..

30-06 AI..30 Gibbs...300 Rem SAUM...300 WSM  300 Dakota..300 WM.. 300 Weatherby mag 300 Remington Ultra mag

8mm  Remington Mag

338 Win Mag..330 Dakota..340 Weatherby mag 338 Remington Ultra mag

All of them will work with the right bullets at those distances...There are certain considerations and trades offs going with some of these.weight...recoil..muzzle blast...expense...but...never the less will work for you...just as the do for many people..Long rang hunting isn't for every one...and it takes dedication to be the most proficient marksman you can become...you also have to become extremely knowledgeable about the various bullets designs & limitations..and you have to be willing to invest both time & money to become such...El Cheapo scopes and standard ammo usually won't work especially if you have a close quarters shot at an animal or if you can't see them clearly at long distances......You have to know all your limitations including your equipment..and stay well with in them...You owe it to those around you...and to the game your hunting...

Mac

[PartsMan]

Na I'm not worried about dropping them.
Just a good clean kill. I could hit one with my 223 at those ranges but it wouldn't be wise.
My 7mm-08 might have enough power but I'm not comfortable hitting them with it.

I want both.
I don't know if I need a mag or not but I am thinking 27 or 28 cal would be best.

Held a CZ 550 in 270. That's a very nice rifle with an awesome trigger.
Not to bad on the price. To bad no laminate.(I could change that later)
I'd hate to take that pretty wood to the woods.

[myronman3]

you dont need a magnum to effciently kill a large whitetail at 400 yards.  your 7-08, a 270.280, 308 or 30'06 will do that just fine.  YOU and to a lesser extent your rifle are going to be the limiting factor here, not whether the cartridge says "magnum" on it.   
   if you just have to have a mag,  think hard on the 7mm.  ithe 7mm bullets have about as high a ballistic coefficient as you are giong to find.   a fine cartridge indeed. 
  the reasons i would stick with the 7-08....  1.you are already owner of 7-08 dies and components.  2. it is a very capable round 3. it uses 7mm bullets, which as stated above have a high b.c. 4. you will be able to shoot more per dollar availible to you with a 7-08 than a 7 mag (and remember,  you are going to be the biggeset limiting factor in this equation)  5. you are somewhat familiar with the ballistics of the 7-08. 

   if i were you,  i would start looking for a quality used rifle in 7-08.  also get the best scope you can for the money.  that doesnt mean the highest magnification, either.  it means the clearest, most reliable scope you can get.   i would think for 500 you should be able to get into a very nice used bolt rifle with a scope.  hell, there was a browning a bolt stalking in the paper today with a nice scope for 450.  do a little looking,  concentrate on the platform (gun).   and then shoot, shoot, shoot. 

[PartsMan]

I have thought about another 7mm-08.
I would have to order it though.
If you ask about a 7mm-08 around here they answer "7 mag?".

I just gotta have something new to try.
Besides a little more power wouldn't hurt.

[DalesCarpentry]

You might consider the 300 Remington Ultra Mag. Seeing as you reload you could load it to Ultra Mag power levels for Grizzly bears. Or you could load it down to 30-06 power levels. Just a thought Dale

[kudzu]

For what you are asking. My vote goes to the 7mag or 270wsm. Basically ballistic twins. Both are great rounds. I  like them both (that's why I have both).  The overall nod would most likely go to the 7mag for the simple reason of bullet selection.

Just as a side note. My buddy and myself hunted a large field. Both off us were shooting 7mags. His a sendero, mine a CDL SS fluted model.  Results , 5 shots, 5 deer. Total yards 1678. The farthest  one being 482yds. the rest was from 275 to 340. Both of us were shooting 160 accubond bullets. (not my first choice for WT, but shot well with limited time to prepare). There was hardlly no tracking at all. 4 of the 5 dropped or traveled less than 25 yrds. The 482 shot struck the deer perfectly in the shoulder. the deer ran about 100 yrds across the field and fell about 5yrds into the tree line.

Having said this the 7mag would be a very good chioce. Me I couldn't decide on just one, that's why I go from 22-250 to 243 to 6mm to 25-06 to 270 to 280 to 30-06 to 270wsm to 300saum to 7mag to 7rum to 300rum to 338.

Good luck with your decision, DM

PS- in case u r wondering the 482  wasn't my turn.





 

[nomosendero]

so which is it?  a different power level or a more accurate rifle? 

Yes please.

I want a rifle that will hit and kill a big whitetail that kept at 400+ yards.
I realize that will take a lot of practice from me and may never happen but I don't want my gun holding me back.

This is helpful information. So a big Whitetail is the upper limit in weight & 400 yards & some change is the max distance. Bigger animals or
a little longer shooting or a combination of both is where the 300 mags & big 338 shine, but not needed here at all unless you just want one. So, I would eliminate those & I like and shoot a 300 mag from time to time & I am personally fond of them.

The 7mag, 270 Wea. mag, 264, 270WSM are great & I would not fault anyone who made that choice, but keep in mind with a cap at 400 yards they are not required but nice. All of these calibers have good bullets that buck the wind, the 270 has the fewest choices, but with bullets like the 140Acc, you don't need many choices. The 7mag has the most factory choices.

The 308, 7mm-08 & 260 would work if you have time to precisely measure the yardage(not saying you don't need to do that anyway, but more critical with these), but you have a 7-08, might as well go for more cartridge.

The 25-06(only with the better loads), 270, 30-06 & 280 would be fine & you have a huge variety of 30-06 ammo as stated. I would lean more toward the 270 & 280 since you have the Varmit end covered. I have used the 25-06 a bunch for years & it is a jewel, but it was also because I also did long range Varmiting with that round as well. It is a standout for that & the best Antelope round going along with the 257 WEA. & 400 yard Mule Deer are not a problem, but that is about the limit.

MY 270 was used this year in WY & AR to take several Antelope, Mule Deer & Whitetail, 7 so far, from up close to 410 yards & it was devastating with the 140Accubond. It would do your job with ease.

Add the 30-06AI & 280AI to the list if you want to be a serious reloader, I have a 30-06AI I am fond of, but it is used more as a rifle for Deer & Elk. The 280AI would be perfect.

So, for factory ammo I would go with the 270 or 7 mag, 257 Mag if you want to buy the ammo & a 26" version of Wea.
For a serious reloader, still the 270, & 7 mag, fast 25's & add the 280AI, which could be the best choice of all other than resale considerations & the 280AI could use the same bullets as your 7-08 in a pinch.