Author Topic: What caliber do I need? (Read 6025 times)

nomosendero · « **Reply #90 on:** December 25, 2007, 04:31:00 AM »

Cheesehead, you stated that the 7mm Mag was better because it has more retained energy, if that were true, why would you settle with the 7mmMag, when other rounds have alot more energy than the 7mmMag, which was my point & you know that. Like Mac said, to some of us 400 yards is where long rang starts. And as typical with those who have not done much of it, traj. charts are studied instead of wind drift tables. And yes with both loaded with the best long range bullets the 7RM would drift less, but a 7STW with the same bullet would drift less, the 300RUM with the 200Acc. would drift even less than the best 7mmMag loads & so on. But at 400 yards & less the 140 Accubond in a 270 would drift less than most 7mag loads with regular bullets because of the .496BC. Now load a 7mmMag with a 160Acc & you have something with a BC of .531. The point of this is that with the best reloads the 270 will drifts less
than most 7mmMag factory loads & actually most reloads that folks use to get that 1-2" flatter traj. at 400 yards. Of course the 7 with the best loads will drift less & a 300 with a 200Acc. with a BC of .588 will drift less than that. Would that make it better for 400 & less, no.

My first Mag was a 7mmMag, it did just fine & I bought it asking questions like Parts Man did here. It will serve him well here, but I also had Elk & bigger game in mind & because I Varmit hunted for years, I was not opposed to a 500 yard shot. This made the 7 a viable choice & even though I decided a 300 was more of what I was looking for, it would still be a good choice.

Should I build a rifle with long range Deer shooting in mind, I would bypass the 7RM & opt. for a flatter shooting round, but I am not talking about 400 yards & less either.

My only point here is that the std rounds would also be a good choice for Deer & shots of 400 yards & under, I think some experienced 270 shooters would be shocked to find out otherwise.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #91 on:** December 25, 2007, 04:52:12 AM »

I am speaking of the 7mm Remington Magnum because it is more common in ammunition, component and rifle options. That's what makes it a more viable option than other more obscure magnum chamberings. I have considered all ballistic numbers as well. The highest ballistic coefficient bullet combined with a hand loaded maximum powder charge for the 7mm Remington Magnum simply can not be beat by the 270 Win, at any range in any wind or weather conditions.

Cheese

nomosendero · « **Reply #92 on:** December 25, 2007, 05:08:39 AM »

At 400 & less & for Deer? OK what ever you say
Then by your reasoning I would go with the 300RUM, a viable factory option. It beats the 7RM in all areas. And that would consider all
conditions, period. It even has power level ammo, so you can have light factory loads. Why not get a real magnum instead of a mag want-to-be?

Oh & when you said all wind conditions, does that include no wind? I think you might be better off with that choice, the same one I made in the late 70's, to each his own.

Now I have kids & grandkids to visit.

Merry Christmas

Cheesehead · « **Reply #93 on:** December 25, 2007, 05:51:41 AM »

I thought we were talking about Partsman, he did not show interest in a 300 rum. I did not know the 300 rum was as common as the 7mm Remington Magnum. My family will be here soon for Christmas, so we can talk more after the Christmas celebration.

Merry Christmas Nomosendero
I love Christmas

Cheese

NONYA · « **Reply #94 on:** December 25, 2007, 06:21:52 AM »

"It beats the 7RM in all areas"

Show me one shot on game under ANY conditions at 400 or under that you can make with it that i cant make with a 7mag.........a slight increase in velocity or BC or ballistics does not mean you cant make the same exact shot with the same exact results with the 7.Once again you try to start an argument with guys just trying to help out a fellow hunter asking a simple question.Ill tell you where the 7mag beats it,the price of ammo,the availability of ammo, and in the future I expect factory ammo for the 300 rum harder and harder to find.The 300 wm and 7mm RM wil always be easy to shop for,and ammo wont cost you $40 a box.

jro45 · « **Reply #95 on:** December 25, 2007, 06:42:12 AM »

I own a 7mm Rem. mag. And Its a fine rifle I have shot it to 600yds Accurately.

NONYA · « **Reply #96 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:15:27 AM »

I have killed deer and antelope beyond 600 with mine,longest was a doe muledeer at 650,the bullet passed through both lungs and exited,160 gr. barnes TSX.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #97 on:** December 25, 2007, 07:50:01 AM »

Quote

Once again you try to start an argument with guys just trying to help out a fellow hunter asking a simple question.

No one is trying to start an argument Nonya.. I don't know why is it you are taking it as such...No one is talking about their personal ability in this statement..but what the 2 cartridges are rated for...Heck...I would bet my next pay check you..me..nomo..and a bunch of others can make hits with the standard 270 out to 600 yards most of the time...That is because we have..and have practiced and know our rifles...but..considering .the ballistics of the 2 cartridges...the 300 RUM will out perform the 7mm Mag..

Merry Christmas

Mac

Mac11700 · « **Reply #98 on:** December 25, 2007, 11:17:27 AM »

Quote

.Ill tell you where the 7mag beats it,the price of ammo,the availability of ammo, and in the future I expect factory ammo for the 300 rum harder and harder to find.The 300 wm and 7mm RM wil always be easy to shop for,and ammo wont cost you $40 a box.

This is true enough...I saw 5 boxes of 7mm Mag ammo at Walley World that were on a close out at $11.95 a box a month ago...I sincerely doubt most of the RUM's will ever be priced at such..but...in reality for any of the larger magnums.. the price will always be significantly more than main stream cartridges or standard cartridges....It will be up to the individual who is wanting the fastest & flattest shooting cartridges to decide if they want to pay for this benefit..Many who do shoot them..don't really care if the ammo is $20-$40 a box more...many are reloading for the cartridges to begin with...Heck...look at the cost for the Weatherby cartridges...or some of the Hawks...or Dakota's...or A-Square's...It's not about needing...it's about wanting...and that is what Partsman has said...he is wanting a long range rifle...so...it doesn't hurt to show all the opinions available...

Mac

kudzu · « **Reply #99 on:** December 25, 2007, 11:26:19 AM »

Quote from: dancoman on December 24, 2007, 05:35:57 PM

Partsman, Just go and get ya one of them new rem 700 Boone and Crockets in either a 7mag or 270 wsm. You can start the scope debate on another thread.

AND HURRY UP, I NEED TO KNOW HOW IT SHOOTS

Need I say it again

nomosendero · « **Reply #100 on:** December 25, 2007, 03:59:40 PM »

Nonya, if you had read my previous posts instead of commenting on my last one, you would know where I was coming from. The comment about the 300RUM was in reference to the comment of the 7 being better because of more energy than the 270. In that context then or in Cheesehead's reasoning we would have to conclude that the 300RUM would be better than the whole lot & the 300WM would not be as good as the 300RUM, but alot more than the 7mmMag. But if you look at what I advised as good rounds, the 300RUM was not one of them, go back and look. Anyone can look at all of my posts & there is no contradiction here at all. Parts Man said his max is 400 yards & the biggest animal is a Deer. Under those guidelines is the purpose of my comments, those being that a 270, 280, 7mmMag & a lot of other rounds will do fine. BTW, I really don't have a favorite & have used many for this purpose. You mention using the 7 for game at 600, I don't doubt that & if you had read my posts about this, I mentioned this is a good thing about the 7mmMag, being able to shoot over 400 & shoot bigger animals than Deer, I mentioned that about 10 times it seems. So it appears we agree more than we thought & so no disagreement on my part at least. The purpse is not to argue but to show that several rounds will do, if he chooses a 7Mag, I think it will be great & I feel the same about 270WSM, 264, 270Wea & a bunch of others. And among the std. rounds, the 270 & 280 would be great choices. No experienced rifleman would even attempt to argue that a properly set up 270 or 280 would not be up to that task. That has been my only point from the beginning, pure and simple. Again, 400 yard max range & Deer as biggest game.

Cheesehead, I can relate to your passion for the 7MMMag. Your feelings sound EXACTLY like me 25-30 years ago. I mean I used
the 7RM for everything from Groundhogs & Beaver & up & it worked. So, I understand your feelings, but I have since leaned there is more to it than what case I use. When a guy shows up at a range & kicks your butt at long range with a 308, you decide it is time to lean a little more. And I have, but I am still in the learning mode.

Merry Christmas to all !

NONYA · « **Reply #101 on:** December 25, 2007, 10:06:57 PM »

SO.....just as dead at 400 with the 7rm with cheaper and more available ammo,easy decision in my book.

nomosendero · « **Reply #102 on:** December 26, 2007, 03:17:15 AM »

Yes & just as dead with the cheaper yet 270 ammo, good point & I agree!

PartsMan · « **Reply #103 on:** December 26, 2007, 03:22:28 AM »

Quote from: dancoman on December 24, 2007, 05:35:57 PM

Partsman, Just go and get ya one of them new rem 700 Boone and Crockets in either a 7mag or 270 wsm. You can start the scope debate on another thread.

AND HURRY UP, I NEED TO KNOW HOW IT SHOOTS

That is a fine looking rifle. Any ideal what they are going for?
By the way I already have the scope narrowed down.

I didn't mean to start a 270 vs 7mag debate.
The truth is a 7 mag beats the 270 at every range except the shooting range.
I don't want to take the fun out of shooting.
Plus the mags can be a little messy inside 50yds.

This is not to say I have ruled out the magnums but there are trade offs to any cartridge.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #104 on:** December 26, 2007, 03:30:46 AM »

300 Winchester mag. Ruger m-77 !
This is North America home of the .30 cal. not Europe home of the 7mm , m&m's are party candy ! the 300 WM is little more than a souped up 3006 and that's a good thing ! it works on everything American !
I know a guy trying to use one on prairie dogs at long range wants one at 1000 yards last i heard was over 800 , then lots of elk and bear have fallen to them . whats not to like ?

700xcr · « **Reply #105 on:** December 26, 2007, 03:52:04 AM »

It just comes down to what Partsman wants. I had a 7mm mag. several years ago. Now I have a 270wsm. For my deer and elk gun. I do not see any difference in shooting game with except less recoil out of the 270wsm. Of course I shoot 150gr. out of the 270wsm where everybody else shoot the lighter bullet weights in that cartridge so they compare standard 270win and 270wsm with the lighter bullets. It comes down to whether you have the ammo availability in stores around you or you get into reloading. The Boone & Cricket is a pretty gun. Maybe too pretty to hunt with in my eyes. I would be afraid of scratching it. I would opt for a Remington model 700 in sps or xcr. I would go to a store and pick up all of them. I live in the Pacific Northwest where we have wheat fields and CRP that shooting ranges can be rather long in distance so I opt for the 270wsm over the standard 270win. Can't wait till Berger is out with their new bullet in 0.277cal. 150gr. with a BC of 0.545.

nomosendero · « **Reply #106 on:** December 26, 2007, 03:59:18 AM »

Quote from: PartsMan on December 26, 2007, 03:22:28 AM

Quote from: dancoman on December 24, 2007, 05:35:57 PM
Partsman, Just go and get ya one of them new rem 700 Boone and Crockets in either a 7mag or 270 wsm. You can start the scope debate on another thread.

AND HURRY UP, I NEED TO KNOW HOW IT SHOOTS

That is a fine looking rifle. Any ideal what they are going for?
By the way I already have the scope narrowed down.

I didn't mean to start a 270 vs 7mag debate.
The truth is a 7 mag beats the 270 at every range except the shooting range.
I don't want to take the fun out of shooting.
Plus the mags can be a little messy inside 50yds.

This is not to say I have ruled out the magnums but there are trade offs to any cartridge.

Debate is all there was between myself & Cheesehead, not an argument. The only disagreement when you look at everything was WHERE or at WHAT RANGE the power difference would matter for DEER sized game & that is it. Some feel it helps at any range, I think the difference matters at longer ranges than the 400 yard max. range the shooter seeks. That's it & no biggie to me. Like 700xcr said, it boils down to what Parts Man wants with these later choices, that simple.
Take care.

drdougrx · « **Reply #107 on:** December 26, 2007, 04:40:57 AM »

Will ya just get an 06 and stop worrying about 99.9% of your hunting and shooting concerns............

litman252 · « **Reply #108 on:** December 26, 2007, 05:26:06 AM »

Partsman,
I'm doing the same as you, except I put 300 yards as my max. I already have a 30-06 in a Rem. 7600 pump. I also have a 7STW in a Mod 70. I'm looking for a deer rifle/caliber combo that is light weight and low recoil.

Here are 2 things that helped me a lot, if they were mentioned sorry , I did not read all the posts.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

You will have to guess at some numbers but it helps, and I hate the STW for the recoil and I don't shoot enough to take advantage of the benefits of it.

Best of luck with your choices.

Tony

victorcharlie · « **Reply #109 on:** December 26, 2007, 07:43:42 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on December 26, 2007, 04:40:57 AM

Will ya just get an 06 and stop worrying about 99.9% of your hunting and shooting concerns............

That was just exactly what I was thinking.......

+1

PartsMan · « **Reply #110 on:** December 26, 2007, 07:53:18 AM »

I am worried about recoil on the Magnums.
I'm not going to shoot farther than I have practiced.
That may take a lot of practice.

Going to want a brake on a mag.
Then I will need better ear muffs.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #111 on:** December 26, 2007, 08:19:03 AM »

won't need all that with a 300 WM or 3006 either !

lilabner · « **Reply #112 on:** December 26, 2007, 08:49:20 AM »

You are on the right track with a Weatherby Vanguard in .270 Winchester. I have one with a 3X9 variable scope and it shoots flat enough to hit with a hold on a deer's body at 300 yards. The Vanguard is a rugged and accurate rifle. Bullet drop gets pretty steep beyond 300 yards. If you anticipate shooting at longer ranges. consider buying a quality range finder that will range on deer out to 4-500 yards.

litman252 · « **Reply #113 on:** December 26, 2007, 10:25:56 AM »

Quote

If you anticipate shooting at longer ranges. consider buying a quality range finder that will range on deer out to 4-500 yards.

Prob the best advice so far, esp. when in rolling, or steep terrain. Any caliber will hit with the correct holdover at known range, lighter ones are more fun on the shoulder though.......... Off to buy a tikka in 6.5x55 I go, when I have the $$$$

Tony

kudzu · « **Reply #114 on:** December 26, 2007, 03:16:05 PM »

Buds Gun Shop has the Boone and Crockets listed for 735.00 delivered.

With all ya'lls help, I've almost talked myself in a 300wm in one of them.

nomosendero · « **Reply #115 on:** December 26, 2007, 03:30:28 PM »

Quote from: dancoman on December 26, 2007, 03:16:05 PM

Buds Gun Shop has the Boone and Crockets listed for 735.00 delivered.

With all ya'lls help, I've almost talked myself in a 300wm in one of them.

Go ahead, I dare you!

I have a Lam. stocked 300WM Sendero that is an amazing shooter, maybe you will get lucky as well.

flyboy · « **Reply #116 on:** December 26, 2007, 07:39:32 PM »

Quote from: PartsMan on December 18, 2007, 03:28:04 AM

I have never hunted elk and may never get to so I think 30 cal would be plenty.
There is still a part of me that wants a 257" or 6mm round./quote]

************************************************************

The .308 caliber would indeed be an effective and versatile round for any North American game, except maybe the great bears, and feral Brahma bulls. You would only need one gun, but where's the fun in that? A potful of the Brown Bears have been killed with the 7MM Mauser round, which is not all that that different from the .308. The .270 has done in more than its share, too, and it does work fine for elk. More power, you say? 30-06! A magnum? Why? Fact: You shoot best with what kicks you least.

I have had both the 6mm Remington, and .257 Roberts. Both are good 300 yard deer guns, but the 6mm's heaviest bullet, last time I looked, was 105gr., while my .257 will shoot heavier bullets, up to 120 gr., which I prefer. I talked to a Hornady Technician, who said he used only 100 gr. .25 cal. bullets for all of his shooting/hunting. In that case, it is the toss of a coin between the two. They both are based upon the 7X57mm Mauser cartridge. You need to use the (Federal?) light magnum load for the .257, or handload to get the best out of either. Good luck in your search.

O wait! Your 7mm-08 is a grand caliber for just what you describe, and is a pretty good competitor for the .308.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #117 on:** December 27, 2007, 04:43:42 AM »

yes yes yes !

280shooter · « **Reply #118 on:** December 28, 2007, 05:59:02 PM »

Then it's settled. 280 Remington. Just kidding. I've had 7 mag, 270, 280's, '06's,7-08, and then some. The 7 mag and 270 are gone. Nothing wrong with them. I just like the 280's for the flexibility and lighter recoil. Yes, I am a sissy. The 280 has more oomph than the 7-08 and comes close to the 7 mag with less powder and recoil. I like the 7 mag just fine, but it was more than I needed and not as fun to shoot for extended range sessions. I'm sending a 300 win mag down the road for the same reason.

Sixpack · « **Reply #119 on:** December 28, 2007, 06:21:57 PM »

PartsMan,

Just curious...have you made a decision? Also, what bolt action are you gonna get it in?

My pick is either the .270 Win or the plain, boring, vanilla, been gettin' it done for over 100 years .30-06 Springfield. Me personally, it would be hard to be without either one - even though they are similar - but if I had to choose between only one, it would be the .270 Win. Mainly, because it was my first rifle and my Dad bought it for me. Somethings you can't put a value on.