Author Topic: 357Mag Speer 180gr flat point loads? (Read 3455 times)

WILD_WEASEL · « **on:** December 19, 2007, 04:48:20 AM »

I sent my CR-45LC in for a 357 Magnum barrel. Has anybody experimented with the Speer 180gr (.358 dia) flat point intended for the 35 Remington? There are several load using this bullet in the 357 Mag listed in the Speer #10 reloading manual. While there are probably better 180gr+ bullets intended for the 357 this looks like q very cool laod.

darat100 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2007, 06:04:21 AM »

I have, but it was in my maximum, not the mag. Didn't have the best results with it. I have had by far the best results with the hornady xtp in both 158 and 180.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2007, 06:27:18 AM »

I would expect poor terminal performance from the Speer 180gr FP in the mag, the Speer #13 doesn't show it, probably for good reason. Here's what it does at considerable more velocity in a 35 Rem.

I think the Hornady 180gr SSP would be a better choice, it's considerably softer, and a spitzer too, it's one of the bullets I'll be trying in my 360 DW ammo.

Tim

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=7180&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2007, 11:50:02 AM »

Tim, EtAl.,

Thanks for the input on the Hornady 180gr SSP.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2007, 11:57:23 AM »

Ummm, who's EtAl, I know who Varmint Al is, but not this EtAl fella!!

Tim

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2007, 03:52:14 AM »

Tim, EtAl.,

“Et al.’ is a scholarly abbreviation of the Latin phrase et alia, which means “and others.” It is commonly used when you don’t want to name all the people or things in a list, and works in roughly the same way as “etc.” “The reorganization plan was designed by Alfred E. Newman, General Halftrack, Zippy the Pinhead, et al.; and it was pretty useless.” The “al.” in this phrase needs a period after it to indicate it is an abbreviation of alia; but it is incorrect to follow “et” with a period.

Around this board EtAl. are all my unnamed friends.

George

AZHoosier · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2007, 05:33:05 AM »

I thought it was that Tim et all the road kill and didn't leave any for the rest of us......

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2007, 05:34:49 AM »

I knew that, my reply was an attempt to be funny, guess I didn't use enough emoticons.

but thanks George,

Tim

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2007, 03:58:17 PM »

Tim,

My funny bone is a bit out of tune these days. I'm taking two weeks off around Christmas and hope to get in a lot of target practice. Hopefully that will tune me up.

jschance · « **Reply #9 on:** December 21, 2007, 07:48:05 AM »

If you're looking for a heavier bullet to use in a .357 Mag carbine you might want to try the Speer 170 grain GDSP. I used it deer hunting this fall and was very impressed with the performance. Speer has data using Lil'Gun powder that'll get you into the 1700 fps neighborhood.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2008, 06:40:41 AM »

Tim, EtAl.,

Sent an E-mail off to Speer Tech Support and received the following answer today,

"George: I would suggest NOT using the data from #10, too dated and the bullet construction has changed. Understand that the loads are loaded to a length longer than Industry Standard. The loads are listed on page 900-901 of #14."

Shoot Straight!
Coy Getman
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
(800) 627-3640
CCI/Speer Technical Coordinator

quickdtoo · « **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2008, 06:56:57 AM »

No surprise there, not only have the bullets changed, but so have the powders. I suppose if you know the bullets and powder you're using are from that era, it may be acceptable tho.

Thanks for the follow up.

Tim

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2008, 02:51:45 PM »

My rifle was returned today good as new. While it was out I had 12ga and 257 barrels fitted. The 28" 12ga looks great with the BC Carbine frame and wood. The 357 barrel looks great too, in is on the frame and ready for the range tonight. I talked to RCBS and they sent me two seatng stems for my older 357 dies that will allow me to load pointed bullets. So I can get a box of 180 Hornady bullets to strat experimenting with.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2008, 06:50:08 AM »

Gave my new 357 barrel a good workout last night at the 50' indoor range. Starting out with 130gr Winchester 38 Special White Box it shot to point of aim. Switching to my 357 handloads; Speer 158gr JSP over 14.5gr of 2400 CCI550 primer Remington brass case it shot tight groups but 2" lower than the 38 Special loads. Adjusting the rear sight as high as it would go it still shot 1" low. A lower front sight should set this right however so no worries there. What was interesting was when I shot the same 357 handloads in my new 4 4/8" Blackhawk the muzzle flash and concusions were spectacular, but out of the rifle much more mild given that the longer barrel is making full use of the slower burning 2400. If I have a chance I'll be back to the range tonight with the following load, Speer 158gr JSP over 15.5gr of H110 CCI550 primer Remington brass case. Next, I want to develope some plinking loads bases on LRNFP cast bullets intended for Indian (Cowboy) Action Shooting. I have not given up on developing loads using the Speer or Hornady 180gr .358 bullets, or trying the new Hornady 140gr Leverevolution (SP) ammo, stay tuned.

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2008, 07:24:46 AM »

I have loaded a few in the 360DW brass with some favorable results... will get lots of attention this spring when I get me a chrono. Kurt

hellacatcher · « **Reply #15 on:** January 26, 2008, 02:40:27 AM »

I would give some thought about loading 358 bullets in a 357 handie. I tried it and it swelled the cases out just enough that they didn't want to chamber. I didn't try to shoot em not knowing what the pressures mite be. You mite have different luck.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #16 on:** January 26, 2008, 06:27:46 PM »

Temptation got the better part of me and I bought a box of Speer 180gr .358 Flat Nose bullets, intended for the 35 Remington. Against the advice of Speer I used the data in their #10 manual for this bullet in 357 Magnum. I put together three lots of test ammo with charges of 13.5gr, 14.5gr, and 15.5gr of H110 all using CCI550 primers. At the range, all 50' of it, the 13.5gr loads shot to point of aim, the 14.5gr loads shot a bit lower and the 15.5gr loads shot an inch lower than the 13.5gr loads. All loads slipped out of the chamber after firing and the primers showed no sign of excessive pressure. All loads shot into less than an inch! I also put together some Indian (Cowboy) loads for plinking, using a 158gr LRNFP over 5.5gr of Unique set off by a CCI500 primer. These loads shot to the same point of aim as the 180gr Speer JFN at 50'. The cast loads also shot well in my Blackhawk.

tn_junk · « **Reply #17 on:** January 27, 2008, 02:05:14 AM »

I'm glad to hear that the Speer worked well in your Handi. I've got 50 rounds of the same bullet loaded for my .357 MAX to try.

alan

hellacatcher · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2008, 01:24:20 AM »

I am glade those 358 di worked for you. I just tried some hornady's 180gr CL-SIL's with 26gr of 1680. Shot like a dream at 200yrds 3-4 in group. The 357 Max is the best handie I have or have had none of the others will stand with it.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2008, 04:20:17 AM »

My 357 has instantly become my favorite rifle for a variety of reasons. 1) I can shoot magnum loads at my local indoor range without pissing off the Range Master. 2) Given the jump in cost of reloading components it is relatively economical to reload for, using cast LSWC or RNFP's and 5.5 to 6gr of Unique. 3) It gives my a platform to experiment with accessories, such as sights, and reloads. If I have an opportunity to go to an outdoor range of 100 yards or more I'd more than likely take out one of my 6.5x55, 303, or 45-70. I still need to get out to the trap range and try out the 28" full 12ga barrel I bought at the same time as the 357 barrel. Depending on how it handles I may send it in for a Poly-Choke. I'll post that update on the shot gun page.

d_hiker · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2008, 05:22:05 AM »

It sounds like you are doing good. Keep the reports coming.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2008, 05:52:41 AM »

Quote from: WILD_WEASEL on January 26, 2008, 06:27:46 PM

Temptation got the better part of me and I bought a box of Speer 180gr .358 Flat Nose bullets, intended for the 35 Remington. Against the advice of Speer I used the data in their #10 manual for this bullet in 357 Magnum. I put together three lots of test ammo with charges of 13.5gr, 14.5gr, and 15.5gr of H110 all using CCI550 primers. At the range, all 50' of it, the 13.5gr loads shot to point of aim, the 14.5gr loads shot a bit lower and the 15.5gr loads shot an inch lower than the 13.5gr loads. All loads slipped out of the chamber after firing and the primers showed no sign of excessive pressure. All loads shot into less than an inch! I also put together some Indian (Cowboy) loads for plinking, using a 158gr LRNFP over 5.5gr of Unique set off by a CCI500 primer. These loads shot to the same point of aim as the 180gr Speer JFN at 50'. The cast loads also shot well in my Blackhawk.

Congratulations. Your results are very encouraging.

I have a couple of questions:

Did the 180's bulge the brass when seated?

Were you able to recover any bullets from the trap? If so, what did they look like?

Thanks Much

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2008, 06:16:59 AM »

Evoc One, EtAl.,

The Speer 180gr JFPs seated without a problem and look just as pictured in the Speer #10 Reloading Manual, with NO bulge. I was unable to recover any bullets from the public range and seriously doubt there is any appreciable expansion at the approximate 1700fps these are traveling at. I've always wanted to try these loads and this is the first rifle I've had that will accommodate them.

EVOC ONE · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2008, 06:43:05 AM »

Quote from: WILD_WEASEL on January 29, 2008, 06:16:59 AM

Evoc One, EtAl.,

The Speer 180gr JFPs seated without a problem and look just as pictured in the Speer #10 Reloading Manual, with NO bulge. I was unable to recover any bullets from the public range and seriously doubt there is any appreciable expansion at the approximate 1700fps these are traveling at. I've always wanted to try these loads and this is the first rifle I've had that will accommodate them.

Thanks very much for the info.

I believe I will be testing some of them, myself.

Thanks again.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2008, 10:02:45 AM »

Evoc One, EtAl.,

For years I've been of the mind, for pistol cartridges at least, that I can do it all with Bullseye, Unique, and 2400. However, working with 2400 and H110 side by side, I have to say H110 gives lower PRESSURE signs than 2400 when loading to the same velocity. Approaching max loads with 2400 I get flattening of primers, while with H110 I have yet to see flattening of primers. Also, H110 has reduced flash and muzzle blast compared to comparable loads with 2400. You will also note the the Speer and Hornady 180gr .358 bullets do not seat as deeply in the case as their 357 silhouette bullets do, further reducing pressure with comparable powder charges.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #25 on:** February 03, 2008, 06:36:28 AM »

Aside from printing low with the rear open sight set to maximum elevation I'm very please with the performance of the Speer 180gr Jacketed Flat Points in my BC Carbine. They shoot into an inch with no signs of pressure. At the local gun shop I went ahead and bought a box of Hornady 180gr SP SS/PB bullets. I plan on working up loads starting with 13.5gr of H110 with the goal of 15.5gr of H110. However, the shank below the crimping grove is longer telling me that pressure is going to be higher with this bullet given the same charges of H110 I was using with the Speer 180gr bullet. Looking through my dozen or so reloading manuals I see loads of up to 16.00gr of H110 with 180gr silhouette bullets, with longer shanks still, so while these loads are defiantly going to be high pressure they should be safe in the bull barrel of my 357 Handi. I'll let you know how it goes at the range today. For a dual purpose load I have settled on the Speer 158gr SP with 15.5gr of H110, it shoots great in both my Carbine and 4 5/8 inch Blackhawk. Talked to the factory Friday and was told that lower front sights are available that will fit my BC barrel. On my rifle the front sight is .60 inches from base to the top of the ramp.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2008, 12:07:43 PM »

Just got home from the range, the 180gr Hornady SP SS/PB shot great. I loaded x5 rounds with 13.5gr of H110, x5 with 14.5gr of H110, and x5 rounds with 15.5gr of H110. All loads shot low but grouped into about an inch. Most importantly no signs of excessive pressure, the cases did not look bulged and the primers were not flattened. A lower front sight should take care of the point of aim issue. The 180gr Speer or Hornady should be going somewhere between 1600 and 1700 fps out of the Handi's rifles 22" barrel when loaded with 15.5gr of H110.

WILD_WEASEL · « **Reply #27 on:** February 22, 2008, 05:07:13 PM »

As I stated earlier my 357 barrel shoots low with full power loads. Talked to customer service at H&R, they asked me to remove and measure the front sight. In my case the front sight was .60 inches tall. Three days later I received a brand new front sight in the mail, it measured a hair under .50 inches. I installed it on my rifle and set the rear sight to the mid setting and headed to the range. Without further adjustment my 158gr Speer SPs with 15.5gr of H110 now shoot to point of aim, at 50' (the max distance of the indoor range I use). Switching over to my 180gr Hornady SSPs loaded with 14.5gr of H110, they also shot to point of aim. Lead 158gr bullets loaded with 5gr of Unique shoot a bit higher, the only down side is that if I shoot more than 25 rounds of lead at a session lead starts to accumulate in the throat, requiring a few passes wit a lead remover treated patch to clean things up.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2008, 05:17:31 AM »

Please give us an update when you are able to shoot outdoors, fifty feet is not much of a test for a rifle, one inch at fifty feet equates to about 6 moa.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2008, 07:35:54 AM »

When I shot IMHSA we loaded 180 sp bullets in both the mag. and max. with good results as far as accy. we shot steel targets and the tuff jacket at handgun speed was great . For hunting the SSP bullet would be better !