Author Topic: A bit disappointed ...  (Read 2267 times)

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Offline ironglow

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A bit disappointed ...
« on: December 19, 2007, 04:47:37 PM »
  I am a bit disappointed in Ron Paul..quoting far left authors and figuratively trashing Old glory and Christianity..

  He said " When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag and carrying a cross !" ..claimed he quoted Sinclair Lewis..take your pick, several iconoclasts are credited with the phrase..depending where you search..  Sounds like he is in the atheist cheering section..
     I believe he may have lost some support among the fringes of his groupies..but the hard core Paulistas will stay and perhaps become even more shrill.
   
  It is simply preposterous to suggest that there are any fascists among the hopefuls..left or right. I certainly do not believe that the accused Huckabee is a fascist !
   Yet; if he wasn't pointing directly at Huckabee particular, then he must have been indicting Christianity in general...

    In truth, I think he just got carried away with trying to be clever with quotes ..and over reached. He should really explain himself and perhaps apologize..

     If anyone here actually believes that Huckabee, Romney, Thompson, McCain or even any of the democrats are "fascists"..please give us a couple examples of their conduct
  that exemplifies fascism.

   Some of the Democrats may be close to Marxism..but I see no classical fascists in the whole crowd. The last real fascists we had to deal with were Nazis. It is beneath him to be calling
  his competition in effect,...Nazis !

    Frankly, I believe that if fascism arrives here..it will come wrapped in a suicide bomb, and carrying a Koran !
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline nomosendero

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2007, 05:14:02 PM »
His colors are starting to show!!! ::)  He is an anything goes Liberal Libertarian when it comes to Moral issues. He sounds good on immigration & a few other items, but as a sum of his parts he is lacking, sadly so are the others in other issues.

And a little weird as well, when he says that we should just do away with the FBI & esp. since he has no alternate plan. I expect that he will continue to tumble.

It appears I have no one to vote for!!!! :-[
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 05:49:41 PM »
Quote
It appears I have no one to vote for!!!!  :-[

Kinda where I've been standing for quite a while now. I just don't see anyone in the running that I can vote FOR as opposed to voting against their opponents.


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Offline Heavy C

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007, 05:50:48 PM »
I would agree, especially with not having much of a choice.  Dr. Paul only gets press coverage when he does his little internet fundraising bombs.  The only thing we can hope for is that the Dems continue to bicker and somehow implode.  I had to laugh at the fact that Hill had to launch a "likability tour" - assanine!  What's even crazier is that there are folks out there actually buying into this BS!

Offline Echo4Lima

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 08:04:16 PM »
I tried to explain awhile back that this guy isn't what he has been portrayed as. 

Heavy, can he really be believed on the totals?  A lot of times these politicians claim large amounts raised then "adjust" them a few days or a week later.

Offline victorcharlie

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2007, 01:30:33 AM »
I was really liking Tom Trancredo......but I think he's quitting today......

Of the top four......Romney, Guillini....Thompson or Huckabee.....

The Huck or Thompson seem a bit more conservative........Rudi is a wolf in sheeps clothing.....he's about as conservative as I am Muslim......Mitt comes for one of the most liberal states in the union.........How do you get elected in a liberal state if your not liberal?

Being a Tennessean, I'd like to vote Thompson....but....he seems like he doesn't want to get in the fight.....So at this point, I'm leaning Huck-a-boom........

The conservative media had been beating the candidates up over illegal immigration.......but none of the candidates seem to be listening to us little guys.....

Oh well.......just follow the money........
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2007, 02:00:30 AM »
   TM;
     Not spinning at all..there are no fascists, in the classical sense, in the race. Your definition of fascism is your definition..there are as many definitions it seems, as there are encyclopedias and dictionaries.   <  www.encyclopedia.com/  >      128 differing explanations of fascism...look for yourself ! TRy using all 128 to form one, concise definition..LOL
   Actually, Benito Mussolini coined the phrase after the Roman "fascia", the multi-handled war axe as seen on our old Mercury dime (symbolizing unity of all resources). Classical Fascism, as practiced by Mussolini (the originator) and Hitler, suborned everything to the state..family, honor, God, faith, loyalty, labor, constitutions and liberty.
   
    I don't see that in ANY of the candidates fitting that M.O., especially those on the right ! Some on the left flirt with Marxism, and although Marxism shares some things with Fascism..they are still nota complete match..

   Most often today, because of the great suffering inflicted by Fascists during WW2..the term "Fascist" is used in an attempt to smear political opponents..
   For all practical purposes, the very term "Fascism" is so distorted and overly used as to be a defunct and moribund term.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2007, 04:32:25 AM »

   Do you believe everything Mussolini or Hitler said ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline dukkillr

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 07:40:52 AM »
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag and carrying a cross!

I agree.

Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2007, 09:35:09 AM »
   


                      " ANTOGONISH"
 

                As I was walking up the stair;
             I saw a man who wasn't there .
               
         He wasn't there again today.
             I wish, I wish he'd stay away...


                                        Hughes Mearns..1899


   BTW: TM7..I did not refer to Wikipedia but to many encyclopedic sources..some considered very reliable...(follow the link)
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline nomosendero

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007, 01:45:27 PM »
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag and carrying a cross!

I agree.

I see where a Lib would buy into that statement.

It seems our earlier patriots were quite "wrapped up" in the flag after it was introduced & the founding of the country before the flag & observed Christian principles in their own lives without imposing or demanding others to observe a Religion. They were as opposite from Facists as it gets. I will put this RP remark in the same file as I did with the "getting rid of the FBI remark".
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Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2007, 04:19:55 PM »
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag and carrying a cross!

I agree.

I see where a Lib would buy into that statement.

It seems our earlier patriots were quite "wrapped up" in the flag after it was introduced & the founding of the country before the flag & observed Christian principles in their own lives without imposing or demanding others to observe a Religion. They were as opposite from Facists as it gets. I will put this RP remark in the same file as I did with the "getting rid of the FBI remark".


   I agree
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2007, 04:14:05 AM »
I think what many here are missing, is Mr. Paul's SARCASM. He is simply stating, what he has stated consistently from the very beginning. These politics as usual candidates (and future candidates) will wrap them selves in PRETEND patriotism, i.e. the flag, (SYMBOLISM) and PRETEND Christianity, i.e. professing to be Christians, (FOR APPEARENCE) and attempt to fool (which they have many here) the populace.
A perfect example of this, is when one certain elected official continues to state that ALL RELIGIONS worship the same god, when clearly they don't. But it sure sounds nice, to those whom don't know the difference. The "shrillness" of this politician's supporters crosses even topic lines that do not even pertain to him. :( :( :(
Once again, I will state that I don't believe Paul has much of a chance, but his stance is not confusing, wavering, or non-Christian, but quite the opposite of all three. But then again one has to look, and not spin.
It is amusing that he has received more support from our troops, both financially, and vocally than any other candidate, yet his opponents on both sides of the fence, declare him anti military. I believe they (the military personnel) see the truth "as a whole", rather than a few die hards, who refuse to admit the truth. Mr. Paul is well educated, and well read, and may at times talk over some's heads. I see no confusion or contradiction in his statements or references, as going against his solid voting record.
TM7 and I do not always agree, however he has "in fact" gone to the original source of the definition of fascism, and the quote stands on it's own merits for it's meaning. Whether someone refuses the truth is one's own choice.
It appears that SPINNING is not left exclusively to the politicians. :( :( :(
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline dukkillr

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2007, 04:48:54 AM »
I think what many here are missing, is Mr. Paul's SARCASM. He is simply stating, what he has stated consistently from the very beginning. These politics as usual candidates (and future candidates) will wrap them selves in PRETEND patriotism, i.e. the flag, (SYMBOLISM) and PRETEND Christianity, i.e. professing to be Christians, (FOR APPEARENCE) and attempt to fool (which they have many here) the populace.

Of course that's the point.  I feel bad for those who can't see that.  And this has nothing to do with being liberal.  Think people, please.  Don't just rush to knee jerk reaction like, "oh I don't like what he said, he must be a liberal."

Christianity and patriotism have been distorted by those seeking power forever, it's not a new idea.  If you think that our founding fathers being patriots protect us from falling into this trap, you don't understand the problem.

Offline Sourdough

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2007, 06:05:01 AM »
Fred Thompson seems to be aligned with my views more than any of the others.  So far that's where my vote lies.
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Offline deltecs

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2007, 10:39:51 AM »
Fred Thompson seems to be aligned with my views more than any of the others.  So far that's where my vote lies.

Me too.  I just hope his Iowa whistle stop campaign works enough to place him in the top 3.  If it does then he'll have a chance.  Right now it isn't looking too good unless he really gets into more heavy campaigning.
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Offline nomosendero

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2007, 05:06:35 PM »
I think what many here are missing, is Mr. Paul's SARCASM. He is simply stating, what he has stated consistently from the very beginning. These politics as usual candidates (and future candidates) will wrap them selves in PRETEND patriotism, i.e. the flag, (SYMBOLISM) and PRETEND Christianity, i.e. professing to be Christians, (FOR APPEARENCE) and attempt to fool (which they have many here) the populace.

Of course that's the point.  I feel bad for those who can't see that.  And this has nothing to do with being liberal.  Think people, please.  Don't just rush to knee jerk reaction like, "oh I don't like what he said, he must be a liberal."

Christianity and patriotism have been distorted by those seeking power forever, it's not a new idea.  If you think that our founding fathers being patriots protect us from falling into this trap, you don't understand the problem.

No need to fell bad about me, sorry & it was not a kneejerk reaction. I see it both ways guys & he was being srcastic, I agree on that. . But then there is the Liberal side that believes all religious folks & flag wavers are nut cases, so it can apply each way & as I said, a Liberal would love that statement & take it literal when RP was not being literal.  But some of his ideas like getting rid of the FBI sure have that goofy Liberal tone to me, at the least naive, now that you mention it.
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Offline Matt

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2007, 06:13:14 PM »
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZWIzYWI4NTBjYTc3NGE1OGEwYWMyZjE1NDZjOWVmMDQ=

Liberty! Liberty!
Why I’m for Ron Paul.

By John Derbyshire

You can waste a lot of time in my line of work, noodling around on Internet search engines to not much effect. If the matter is sufficiently pressing (translation: remunerative), when the Internet has comprehensively failed you, you can head to your library. If that fails, you can head to the nearest university library; and if that fails, to some mega-resource like the New York Public Library. If the matter isn’t that pressing, you give up and think of something else to write about.

I got into one of these whirlpools a few months ago, at the time of the Scooter Libby conviction. The thing I couldn’t get past was Libby’s being the vice president’s chief of staff. Why (I wondered) does the vice president need a chief of staff? Or even a staff? Where is that in the Constitution? Yes, this is going to be a Ron Paul piece. Patience, please — I’ll get there.

My touchstone in these matters is of course our late, great vice president, Calvin Coolidge. From Claude M. Fuess’s mesmerizing biography:


As Vice President of the United States, Coolidge occupied a position which paid him a salary of $12,000 a year. In addition to this, he was allowed his own automobile and chauffeur, his own secretary, page, and clerk, and his private telegraph operator. His chief duty was to preside over the Senate; and he was entitled to a room in the Senate office building but also to one in the Capitol, directly behind the Senate chamber. In the Senate proceedings he had no vote except in case of a tie. He was also ex officio President of the Smithsonian Institution. His actual duties, beyond these, were not numerous, and he had plenty of time to himself.

(Pop quiz: From which of the three branches of government does the vice president draw his salary?)

That, of course, was then (1921), and this is now. The office of vice president has expanded some in the past 86 years. Wikipedia gives an outline account of the process. For quite some time, though, the Vice Presidency remained a poor stepchild of the federal-legislative apparatus. Presidential biographies fill in the details. When Richard Nixon moved from the Senate to the vice presidency in 1953, for example, his staffing allowance dropped from $70,000 as a Senator to less than $48,000 as veep. Nixon seems to have held on to all 13 of his senatorial staff members somehow; but he never appointed anyone chief of staff.

So to the present. Scooter Libby was of course the current vice president’s chief of staff until he resigned. David Addington now fills the post. And … how many other persons are on the vice president’s staff?

Try finding out. That was the whirlpool I bailed out of those months ago. (Can you bail out of a whirlpool? Whatever.) I see I still have some scattered notes from my inquiries. The United States Government Manual for 2007/08, published by the Office of the Federal Register, lists 17 names under “Office of the Vice President,” with titles from chief of staff to executive assistant.

That can’t be the whole story, though. Only three of those names have titles containing the phrase “national security” — four if you include “homeland security” — yet we know that in 2004 Dick Cheney had 14 staff members dealing with national security. (Al Gore had managed with five.)

There are 40 names listed on the Legistorm website; the overlap between this list and the one in U.S. Government Manual is only six names. So: how many people are on the vice president’s staff? I repeat: Try finding out. What’s his staff allowance? Same answer.

What has been the value-added in advancing from Silent Cal’s chauffeur, secretary, page, clerk, and telegraph operator, to Dick Cheney’s battalions of assistants to deputy assistants? You don’t need to sign on to leftist Cheney-pulls-the-strings hysteria to believe that it was in part the research and counsel supplied by all those busy beavers on the vice president’s payroll that gave us the misbegotten Iraq war. Cal’s telegraph operator performed better service to his country.

No offense to the current vice president, who seems to me to be a very charming and capable man. (I still cherish the recollection of his 2000 debate with Joe Lieberman — the one that made everyone say: “Ah! Here are the grown-ups at last!”) This isn’t personal, nor even really political; it’s systemic. How did the office of the vice president get so much power? And so many people? Heck, even the vice president’s wife has a chief of staff! Where is that in the Constitution?

* * * * *

Which brings us back to Ron Paul, and the appeal thereof. How on earth did we arrive at this point of vast, bloated, and secretive government, in which the wives of inconsequential federal officials (the office of the vice presidency used to be a byword for inconsequentiality — “bucket of warm p***,” etc.) have chiefs of staff, whose actual staffs and actual budgets are undiscoverable by a reasonably intelligent citizen?

The other day I got an e-mail from a reader. I get lots of e-mails from readers, of course, but this one stood out. A man’s death, said China’s Grand Historian, may be lighter than a feather, or heavier than Mount Tai. I feel kind of the same way about reader e-mails. This one landed in my in-box with an almighty house-shuddering thump. It’s from a reader in the Mile High City.


Mr. Derbyshire,

I saw your post on The Corner that one hundred dollars of the now nearly $16 million dollars Ron Paul has raised this quarter are yours. I’m up to $150 dollars, in twenty five dollar increments, plus another thirty something dollars for yard signs. I donate online and man, do I love hitting that send button.

The first vote I ever cast was for Ronald Reagan in 1984. Today, I look at the Huge Government Republican establishment in Washington D.C., and read its enablers … and I have no idea who these people are, or what happened to the GOP I signed on with.

I’m in construction and get paid by the hour, so a twenty five dollar donation to Dr. Paul is roughly one pre-tax hour of my labor.

So here’s the deal: for every two weeks that Ron Paul is in the race, he gets the fruit of an hour of my time and effort. And every time another member of the conservative intelligentsia disparages Dr. Paul’s campaign for a limited and constitutional government, it will just make hitting the send button that much sweeter.

I don’t know that I can say any more about my reasons for supporting Ron Paul than my reader said right there. I, too, like my reader, have no idea who these people are, and don’t even seem to be able to find out (see above). Probably they are all, like Dick Cheney, very nice people, taken as individuals: but that they are all toiling away in anything I recognize as the national interest, I cannot believe.

To the degree that I can say anything more, I have already said it implicitly, in columns like this one, and this one, and yes, this one. From the first of those:


As the elites pull away from the rest of us, and the rest of us become more atomized and disorganized — “a heap of loose sand” in Sun Yat-sen’s memorable phrase about the late-Imperial Chinese — we may be headed for the kind of intractable elite-commoner hostility predicted by Michael Young in his 1958 book The Rise of the Meritocracy. I don’t think it is fanciful to see an element of this in the current widespread anger towards the political class — the president’s approval ratings down in the 30s, and Congress’s even lower.

Some of that is anger at particular policies — Iraq, the immigration bill. Much, though — a rising proportion, I believe — is systemic: a feeling that the elites are now running the show for their own interests, Latin-America-style, with not much regard for ours. As [one of my readers] correctly observed: “The low paid politician has vanished. The surest route to wealth is politics, followed closely by government service.”

Here is Paul Johnson in Modern Times:

Like FDR, he [i.e. John F. Kennedy] turned Washington into a city of hope; that is to say, a place where middle-class intellectuals flocked for employment.


What I am seeking is an anti-JFK — a candidate who will transform our nation’s capital from a city of hope for middle-class intellectuals, into a city of despair for them. The despair of those intellectuals, I am increasingly convinced, is the hope of our nation. Looking at all but one of the Republican candidates (and, it goes without saying, all but none of the Democratic ones) I see nothing in prospect but a new draft of office-seeking intellectuals, primed and eager to bring us new expansions of federal power, new pointless wars, new million-strong reinforcements for the Reconquista, new thousand-page tax loopholes, new inducements for idleness and crime, new humiliations for the saps who follow rules and obey laws. Sadly and reluctantly at last, I include the S.O.B. in that “all but one.”

* * * * *

From Kimberley Strassel’s piece in the Dec. 14 Opinion Journal:


Paul rallies heave with voters waving placards and shouting “Liberty! Liberty!”


Are those supporters crazy, as some colleagues tell me?

Perhaps they are, to be shouting for liberty in 2007, after decades of swelling federal power and arrogance, of proliferating taxes, rules, and interests, of gushing transfers of wealth to politically connected elites from working- and middle-class grunts, of the college and teacher-union scams, of the metastasizing tort-law rackets, of ever more numerous yet ever more clueless intelligence agencies, of open borders and visas for people who hate us, of widening cracks in our sense of nationhood (“Press one for English …”), of speech codes and race lobbies and judicial impositions.

If those people are crazy, though, I want to be crazy with them. I’m for liberty, too. That’s why I’m for Ron Paul. And why do we have 75,000 soldiers in Germany?

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2007, 01:41:41 AM »
   
   Matt;
   When I was with the Army in Germany, there were 250,000 of us GIs there, so there has been some improvement in that situation.

          Being a global power, we must have convenient points around the globe for a thousand reasons; not the least of which is.. in order to have
    staging areas, closer medical help for wounded, refueling , resupplying depots and to provide a presence that gives cover for intelligence operatives.

    Yes, and when the day comes that we are no longer engaged in the Mideast, there will probably be a presence maintained there for some years.
     Raised as a farm boy I can tell you, once a messy barn floor has been cleaned up..it doesn't necessarily stay that way. Sometimes there is a little shovel
    work still to be done.
   When the first Gulf war came along it took several months to build up enough strength in the area to kick Saddam's butt..time the second go-around
   came along, we didn't need near so long a delay. Why ?..well Bush 41 knew we needed a larger presence and backup in the area, so his admin arranged
    for bases in the area where much of the needed weapons and supplies were held in readiness...

    It is easy to say " This conflict has been all about OIL anyway"..." We have no business in the Mideast, we should leave right away"..

   I would to a point, agree with the first statement and disagree with the latter..
         Sure, it is greatly about oil..what does your car/truck run on ? what are many of the products we depend on, including life sustaining prescriptions
   made of ? What do the trains and trucks that bring these products to us run on ? Oil greases the wheels of business, commerce, industry and today's culture.
   
     Nature abhors a vacuum ! That was proven in the Mideast during the 50s - 70s, when our diplomacy with many of those countries was one of benign neglect,
   and the Soviets moved in with their attentions. Soon Nasser took the helm in Egypt, Ka-Daffy made his country a base for terrorist thugs , and the
    Ayatollah Khomeni and his minions kicked the Shah out of Iran, after Carter decided to expand an already flawed foreign policy with INTENTIONAL neglect !
         
     It took a man like R. Reagan to get thing straightened out again..and bring respect from the rest of the world ! Yes, nature abhors a vacuum..and will fill that vacuum.
   When all is said and done, international relations are no different ! After 5 or 6 decades of observation an astute man starts to realize that the nations of this world
   are not greatly different that a wolf pack ! There must be an "Alpha Dog"..the rest are subservient to the Alpha Dog in greater or lesser degrees !
       At this moment in history we still are Alpha Dog..but not by much ! China has extended it's reach around the world..places like both ends of the Panama Canal
    are controlled by China (thanks to Carter's giveaway)...and under Old Slick they were given (sold for political donations?) much secret missile technology and he tried to
   hand them our vacated naval base at Long Beach..
        Russia is just starting to fall back into slavery, and both China and Russia are building their military at a rapid pace. Frankly, if one looks at the world today, and at the
     ugly countries under dictatorships; it is not hard to visualize a cooperative effort between China, Russia, Cuba, N Korea Venezuela and some of the Arab states to
  try to sink us in the next few years. Even the Bible speaks of a Russia-Pan Arab alliance forming in the end times !
       Come on conspiracy buffs, here's some "raw meat"..or is it just Americans that can be so evil "..LOL
   
           With recent moves by those powers, it would not be long before they would be turning our "oil spigot" on or off at THEIR will.
      One can say, " We should be energy independent by now !"  Sure, we should be..but we are not are we ?
  Although capitalism is the best form of govt, it is far from perfect..It is reactive as opposed to proactive. It will find new energy sources when oil gets TOTALLY out
  of reach. Right now, OPEC is playing us like a fiddle, keeping oil high..but if private enterprise starts developing new sources..they drop prices..for a time..

   Drill offshore and ANWR.? Llet's face it, enough lawmakers on the loonie left are so beholden to the wealthy "hate America" crowd, such will not come about..
                   
         While I like Paul's domestic view,and Constitutional watchfulness internally, I do not like his apparent isolationist and "jump in bed and pull the covers over your head"
   international policy. Even as a little kid one realizes that just because you cover your head, doesn't mean all activity ceases..it just means that the activity goes on WITHOUT
   your imput !
         We have our choice now, do we fight (with commerce, diplomacy, trade and influence) to remain Alpha Dog...or do we flip over on our back and let Russia and China
   dictate our place in the pack ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Echo4Lima

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2007, 03:16:11 PM »
The Founding Fathers of this Nation were wrapped in the flag and carrying crosses!  Any Hitlers or Mussolini's here?  Found a Stalin?  REAL ones, not the ones conjured up.

Oh you'll try to quote Jefferson or whatever about being secularist or deist or something trivial to deny the flag and crosses thing.  But that's all misdirecting. So don't bother.

The threat doesn't come now from those "wrapped in the flag carrying crosses".   It comes from those quoting and believing in that crap! Those that dribble on about all the Big Brother, secret, conspiracy, Jewish Cabal, neo-cons, rich guys keeping us down garbage!  That's right, you people that fit that description are the real threat!  You latch on to some cliche' spewing half base whatever and put any and all of your fears of the world, real or imagined, into that person making him/her some kind of savior of all that is and ever will be. If those people ever come to power, then we will see the real end of it all.  Why do I say that? Because that's the same dribble Hitler used to come to power . Playing on all the German post WWI fears. All the conspiracy's of the world keeping the German people down. Look what it got them!! So, if the shoe fits, wear it!

Now, some of you will complain that that Echo4Lima guy went on a tangent insulting you or whatever, but you know, some of you are insulting with your constant anti American harangues, insulting those that LIKE this place. Or, interruptions about something that has NOTHING to do with some of the threads here.  An example; Awhile back there was a thread about the Chiapas thing in Southern Mexico.  About an insurgency THERE. What pops up from somebody?  " There is a REAL revolution going on right now"!  "The Ron Paul revolution blah blah blah"...What was that?  I'm saying some of you need to change your shoes


Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2007, 04:31:44 PM »
Echo4Lima has some salient points there..

  i am in the midst of a book entitled: ..Camelot and the Cultural Revolution : how the assassination of John F. Kennedy shattered American Liberalism..
  It is written by James Piereson and published by Encounter Books..New York & London..

  I special ordered it through my home library because reviews said it explains why many liberals hate their own homeland..the United States ! This is phenomenon I have been struggling for years to understand. I just couldn't believe that someone born & raised here could hate his own homeland so much!

  The author explains that when either the right or the left is "out of power" so to speak, they have a feeling of helplessness..and the far left or far right fringes go nuts.
  During FDR's long period in office, when the NEW DEAL Democrats could do just about as they wanted, the far right fringe flirted with the KKK and other subversive
  groups.
   Then it was time for the right to take charge..and the left flirted with Anarchists and Communists..Actually, Roosevelt had one at his right hand (Alger Hiss) when dealing with Joseph Stalin.
  The libs always had a minor flirtation with the Commies, but it didn't really ripen till the late 40s and early 50s. You will note that many of the people Joe McCarthy questioned, took the 5th.."because to answer would tend to incriminate them"..

   When JFK was murdered by a Commie, the loonie left went completely off the deep end. They simply could not accept that one of "their own" had killed their idol !
    Jackie, the widow, simply could not handle the thought that he had been killed on a whim, by a Communist !
  She being in denial, convinced herself that JFK had died for civil rights, rather than simply gunned down by a Commie loser. So in an imitation of the "great Emancipator"
   she staged a funeral as much like Lincoln's as a century lapse would allow.
   She even convinced the writer Theodore White to craft a book that curried a picture of JFK as some kind heroic, tragedy figure..that is where the "Camelot" masquerade
   comes into play. All these things were "enablers' for the loonie left to not only continue in , but to wallow even deeper into conspiracy theories .
       It was at that point these loonies decided that America, the USA  was guilty of a great, unforgivable sin..and so, in their denial they blamed right wingers,
        the klan, Industrialists, the "military/industrial complex", a Jewish cabal, the mafia or generals etc., etc. for JFK assumption of room temperature . Depending upon
      the individual lefty, almost anyone EXCEPT a Communist did it !
   
  Since America was guilty of such a great sin, who would punish her ? Leftie could not expect God to punish her..since he does not believe in God !

   So; Leftie himself and hundreds of thousands like him believe they have to punish America on their own !!
 
  Need a little proof ? In 1968, the Democrats at their convention in Chicago nominated Hubert Humphrey and Edmund Muskie for Pres & Veep..and the loonie fringe out in
    the streetwent nuts and tried to destroy Chicago !
  By the next convention, they were so energized that they took over the convention, nominated George McGovern and promptly got clobbered..and they went even more nutsy..
  and ever since have nominated not those they think would HELP America, but rather those they think would HURT America..
 
  These same nut cases went on to spread their errors in colleges as teachers..further indoctrinating gullible, inexperienced minds put in their care..and they are still doing it !

    Today they still hate the land of their nativity..rationalism does NOT rule ! So did you ever wonder why truth and facts mean so little to a frothing-at-the-mouth Lib ?

  And have you noticed how they still "cozy up " to leftist dictators..especially of the Commie stripe ? Mao, Castro, Hugo Chavez.....
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2007, 03:45:36 AM »
Gosh TM7, that's a pretty good rebuttal for the Paul BASHERS. ;D Just don't BASH Bush OK? Some folks get mad. ;D
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline nomosendero

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2007, 04:55:45 AM »
I see some good points there, but some of the things that are happening to RP are not unique, many have to be faced by anyone who
was not "preselected".

As I said before, I see no one that I want to vote for. Getting rid of the IRS sure would not bother me, they have always had my worst interests at heart & we don't need a replacement. I like many of his views, but he still appears weak to me, sorry.

I am bewildered that many RP followers seem to be Mooney like, I don't get that. If my freedom hinges on this guy, then there is no hope. I just don't buy his attitude of ignoring the enemy & they will leave you alone. No FBI, OK Mr. Paul, what is your plan' just hide I guess since he has expressed no security plan other to hide. 
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Dee

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2007, 05:23:31 AM »
nomosendero, I surely don't consider myself Mooney like, as I see some of  the Bush followers, and don't really think he will make the cut, as a confirmation of your "preselected" remark. In it I agree.
However, I also do not see him as weak, or ignoring the enemies of our country. A fair tax is definitely BETTER, than our present system, which is really no system but, rather a confiscation team, and I see him abolishing the FBI as a means of getting rid of a ineffective organization, which it is.
Back in the 70s at the beginning of my L.E. career I made note that the qualifications of being an FBI agent were, having a clean record (no convictions), and the most interesting of all. You had have either a degree in ACCOUNTING, or an ATTOURNEY.  Those last two qualifications I found fascinating, and later found out why over a 20 year career. If they can't get you with the criminal law, they will come after you financially. I also found that the U.S. Marshall's service was not what it was cracked up to be, but found the most efficient organization was the U.S. Secret Service.
Mr. Paul may not play with female interns, or cut brush on his Texas ranch, and probably can't bench press 400 lbs, but, if one would actually RESEARCH what he does believe, such as closed borders, and staying out of other countries affairs which do not concern us, and his VOTING RECORD, I believe an HONEST look will prove that he votes what he says he believes. NONE of the others do. They do however tell us what we want to hear.
Not one single candidate on the rouster has done one single thing to close our borders. Not one. They talk the talk, but have NEVER walked the walk, yet we (most) support one or the other, of a pack of liars, and reprobates whom are nothing more than PROFESIONAL POLITICIANS.
We have ONE candidate that votes what he says, and everyone is tearing him down, while ignoring ALL CANDIDATES voting records, and past performances.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline nomosendero

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2007, 05:55:24 AM »
Dee, The "Mooney like" comment was not in reference to all of his followers & not in reference to you for sure, notice I said many of them. It could sure apply to 1 on this forum, but I may be a little harsh here.

I know the FBI is flawed big time, but I would like to hear what one intends to do when he wants to drop an arm of intell.

I am not done thinking about this & I am not "set" concerning Mr. Paul. I will research & if I see I am wrong about him, I will get on here & say so. Fair enough? I would like to think he could be "mad dog mean" to protect the country, that would be nice.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2007, 06:22:56 AM »
Nomosendoro;
   
   You put it quite well. I am not "against" Paul..I just am disturbed by what appears to be just as you said..he seems to think that if we just ignore the rest of the world we can be totally safe and prosper.
  #1..We are basically a free country..even if the govt wanted to ignore other countries, the world of commerce and trade would not do so. If we trade with the rest of the
world, we will have to have diplomatic relations with them.
   Bad enough we have 1/4 of the world that wants to kill us because we don't worship Allah...Does anyone really think that the many countries in the world that have swallowed the Al Gore myth about "global warming" would simply let us go our way, ignoring the rest of the world ?
 
  #2  As I showed in my last post (if anyone read it) and common sense tells us the same thing..there are expansionist countries in this world that are getting stronger every day. guaranteed, they won't just " leave us alone ".
     
    Paul would do very well internally, but we also have the rest of the world to deal with !

   One thing I can say for sure..I will be voting for Paul if it comes down to either Paul or one of the Democrats..I won't refuse to vote to help a Democrat get elected. .

  That is a bit more inclusive than what SOME of the Ron Paul backers are telling us !
  If he would amend some of what I perceive as "blind areas" in his global vision, I could consider him as a top choice..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2007, 01:14:31 PM »
TM7;

  Let's review a bit;
   
 1) I told of the need for intel and a presence around the world for the reasons I set out..

 2) this intel would keep us alert to the actions of all enemies, present or potential.
  (that's what "intel" is all about !

  3) i even mentioned some these enemies by name..China, Russia, Cuba, N Korea, Iran & Venezuela .

      I almost coughed my coffee up through my nose when you tell me that these enemies have "no land, no air force, no navy, no qualified budget"..

   I believe you owe us an explanation...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Dee

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2007, 08:08:43 AM »
WOW TM7! I'm startin to worry. I agree with all that. I love it that China and Russia was on the list of enimies. GW lists them as BUDDIES. Putin just told him where to go, and he still kisses up to Russia, and I'll bet those AK47s and ammo, that are being used against our troops, were MANUFACTURED AND EXPORTED by one of these "allies" ::). Of course they are our buddies, their just trying to make a little spending cash.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline ironglow

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2007, 11:26:56 AM »
TM7;

  Your hyperbole, I feel assured, is reaching the point of incredulity on the part of some readers.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline deltecs

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Re: A bit disappointed ...
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2007, 12:09:07 PM »
Quote
  TM7  Recent DoD publication indicates the casualty data exceeds that of Vietnam btw 

I'd like to find our your sources for this info.  According to my research 47,378 were KIA with an additional 10,824 from non hostile deaths.  Are you trying to tell us that the casualty rates for both Iran and Iraq exceed these numbers with wounded included.  Vietnam had over 304,000 troops wounded in addition to the KIA.  Or are these projections based over 20 years of occupation as you allude to.  I think you are seeing a conspiracy in everything and everyone.  As for facts, I personally wonder where, how, and from whom you get this info, as I've found it to be mostly misleading or inaccurate.  I researched the net for the DoD report you quoted and found no such info, though I must admit it may exist.  As for enemies of the US it is most imperative to recognize dangerous governments as to our security, hence our presence in Iraq due non compliance with UN surrender terms.  Iraq did pose a major threat to the security of the middle east and subsequently the US.  Any government that sanctions terrorism or aggression is a threat to us. Our real enemy is those citizens who desire peace and security without the moral fiber to stand by their convictions.  I wonder just how many people supported the war against terrorism and US security right after 9/11 and now think the cost too high.  Sounds just like a Clinton.













I
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
deltecs
Detente: An armed citizenry versus a liberal society
Opinion(s) are expressly mine alone and do not necessarily agree with those of GB or GBO mgmt.