Lee Powder Mearure Kit (Dippers)

[MikeC]

I got bought one of these kits to measure triple 7 loose powder with. The kit comes with a sliding card to let you know the volume of different powders in each of the dippers. Unfortunately the card doesn't list Hodgdon 777. It does list pyrodex and black powder. Need suggestions. I have volume measures but they only have markings in 50 gr increments. What is a good measure for loose 777 that will allow at least 5 gr. increments?

[Oldsnow]

A balance beam scale would be best.

[Keith Lewis]

Tripple Seven is supposed to be measured with a volume measure the same as black powder with the stipulation that it needs to be reduced 15%. Basically you should figure the maximum for your rifle on the black powder scale then reduce it 15% and from that maximum you can use the black powder scale on the card and work up to the maximum that you figured. Using a weight scale still requires that you convert the grain volume measurement to the grain weight and they are not the same as the volume grain scale that all muzzleloaders refer to is the black powder grain scale. Now if I didn't confuse you that should take care of it. I also have the Lee measures and I do use them as well as weight scales but I am a reloader and understand the difference in powder scale weights and volume measures. If all this is too confusing for you tell me what your rifle calls out for the maximum load and I will tell you what Lee measure that is and you can work up to that level from a lower amount. Likely the best most accurate load will be below the maximum anyway. You can email me at klewisinc@msn.com.

[MikeC]

Thanks Keith, I think I understand what you are saying. The 15% reduction is for the maximum load only correct? It sounds like you are saying the volume of black powder is the same as the volume of 777. So if one of the dippers holds 20 gr of black powder when filled, that same dipper will hold 20 gr of 777 right?

[MSP Ret]

No, you almost have it and you are on the right track. The VOLUME will be the same but the 777 will weigh  LESS, the same would be true of Pyrodex. The charges are equal by VOLUME, not by weight....<><....

[Busta]

MikeC,

RULE #1
777 loose powder is the exception to the rule when dealing with Black Powder and the Substitutes.

It is designed to be measured by VOLUME, but you need to reduce the VOLUME charge by 15% to get the equivalent charge of Black Powder, Pyrodex, Pioneer Powder, etc,.

85 grains of 777 FFG by VOLUME is equivalent to 100 grains of FFG Black Powder or  Pyrodex RS by VOLUME.

100 grains of 777 FFG by VOLUME = Approximately 77.7 grains by WEIGHT (depending on humidity).

85 grains of 777 FFG by VOLUME = Two 50 grain (100 gr charge) 777 pellets (NOT MAGNUM).

Two 50 grain (100 gr charge) 777 pellets (NOT MAGNUM) = 100 grains of FFG Black Powder or Pyrodex RS by VOLUME.


Your 20 grain dipper will hold 20 grains of loose powder by VOLUME of Black Powder or any of the substitutes. Just remember the exception to the rule when dealing with 777 loose powder.

20 grains by VOLUME of 777 FFG loose powder is actually equivalent to approximately 23 grains by VOLUME of Black Powder or a BP Substitute.

Or 17 grains 777 FFG  by VOLUME would be equivalent to 20 grains by VOLUME of Black Powder or a BP Substitute.

Hope that doesn't confuse you more, but don't be afraid to ask if it did. Safety First!

[Keith Lewis]

Keep in mind that all this talk has been about FFG powder. If you go with a finer granulated powder like FFFG or Black Mag'3 which is basically FFFG then the powder will again have more power per volume measure than the same powder in FFG granulation. As I already said however; using loads anywhere near maximum is in most cases uncalled for and just more recoil and more chance that you are asking the rifle to take more beating than necessary.