Author Topic: How hot is hot? (Read 2730 times)

Heavy C · « **on:** December 19, 2007, 06:17:21 PM »

I am now a proud owner of a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt. I plan to start developing loads for it next month - hopefully. I picked up a box of ammo at the store. They are 250 grain Hornady XTP's at 1280 fps.

So, as 45 Colts go is this a hot load or just average? I know it's well above the cowboy load range.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2007, 11:42:51 PM »

depends on if you have one of the older large framed guns or a newer small framed gun. Since you said blackhawk im assuming its an older one as so far the only small framed 45s have been vaqueros. If so that load will be fine in your gun. As to what to load for it almost any loading manual has RUGER ONLY 45 loads listed in it. Stick to them and you will be fine.

Heavy C · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2007, 05:24:36 AM »

It is a large framed revolver - not a Vaquero.

So, back to my original question. Is 1,280 fps approaching the upper end as far as speed goes? I'm not looking for recipes or anything like that. I guess what I'm asking is for a range in fps min to max for a 45 Colt with 250 grain bullets. I know that the cowboy loads typically run less than 1,000 fps. What would be classified as a hot load?

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2007, 05:51:46 AM »

That's considerably above SAAMI standard for the .45 Colt. I was not aware anyone other than the smaller specialty outfits loaded that hot. What brand ammo did you get that is loaded that hot?

You can definitely reload hotter but as store bought .45 Colt ammo goes that's getting up there in the relative hotness scale and should never be fired in a Colt or Colt clone.

Heavy C · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2007, 06:00:54 AM »

You're right GB it is from a specialty outfit out of San Antonio: I.R. Services.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2007, 09:42:43 AM »

thats a fairly stout load. It would take care of most hunting chores. It probably could be bumped up another 100fps by an experienced handloader.

Heavy C · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2007, 10:20:19 AM »

Okay, so is 1,380 to 1,400 fps the top end for the 45 Colt? Again, I'm just trying to establish a velocity range for this particular cartridge. I have no intention to load them up that high because I really don't have a need. All of this is for me to learn about this cartridge and nothing more. By the way that particular box of ammo is labeled for use in the Blackhawk, T/C's, and FA.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2007, 10:30:12 AM »

HORNADY has some real heavy loads listed in the ruger/tc section . almost 44mag. territory . i shot them in a blued black hawk for a period of time , until i had to tighten the frame screws every 5-10 rounds ! then down loaded to sane loads ! maybe a SS gun would do better as the grip frame is steel instead of al. but i had to do the same with a super black hawk also when it was maxed out !
but LS is right most things could be done with your load and it would save the gun !
i do on occasion shoot the heavy loads in a red hawk but that's more gun ! which dampens recoil better !
guess i got old and decided to have fun shooting not make it an event to see who could hold on to the hardest kicker !

Heavy C · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2007, 11:19:29 AM »

It is a SS gun. I do have a 44 mag if I wanted that kind of performance.

So, I'll ask the question one more time. What is the velocity range for this cartridge?

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2007, 11:41:22 AM »

The question is both without a definitive answer or merit.

The .45 Colt is not about SPEED so who cares really how fast you might be able to push a light weight bullet. You might get 1600 fps or more with a light bullet but for what purpose?

It is at its best when used with cast bullets of 250-260 grains pushed to 1000-1200 fps or if you need to go after larger game then use cast bullets of 300-325 grains pushed to same velocity range. It will taken any game on earth quite effectively when so loaded.

How fast is an academic endeavor with little meaning or substance. If you're willing to live with case life of one firing and the hope and prayer you don't explode the cylinder you might get 2000 fps ONCE. It's just not something of importance. Learn to use it within it's limits and stick the guide lines I gave above and enjoy it for what it is not what you might be able to make of it.

MePlat · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2007, 11:45:17 AM »

250 GR. HDY XTP 250 H110 .452" 1.600" 25.7 1398 27,000 CUP 26.5 1455 29,800 CUP

This from Hodgdons. I believe the barrel length is 7.25 inch solid test barrel which is equal to the barrel and cylinder length of a 5.5 inch gun
Deduct roughly 8 percent to allow for the flash gap and you will have a ROUGH idea.

SO 1340 fps from a 5.5 inch revolver ROUGHLY.

Heavy C · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2007, 03:43:21 PM »

Thanks for the replies.

The 45 Colt may not be about speed, but I cared to ask because I wanted to know the range in fps this cartridge is capable of producing. As I mentioned previously I was merely looking for a range and not a definitive min/max. I'm also not looking to destroy my revolver or diminish case life. Honestly I felt it was a simple question and didn't realize it would take so much posting so I finally just went and purchased some reloading manuals.

When utilizing modern firearms such as the Ruger Blackhawk or the T/C it appears that 1,400 fps is what they are willing to put in print. This was an attempt to increase my understanding of the capabilities and NOT an effort to hot rod the 45 Colt.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2007, 02:37:55 AM »

NO one mentioned bbl length !
which shows just one more factor that will make an answer a bit difficult!

jimster · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2007, 03:29:00 AM »

When I was real young I used to do some not so smart things with my black hawks and was always staring at the velocity figures. I found out much later in life that the weight of these big 45 bullets means more than velocity (Like Greybeard says above) and that when I was approaching 900 fps in a 45 colt with a heavy bullet I was amazed at the penetration. I'm thinking anything around 1000 to 1200 like listed above is plenty....and also agree with what was stated, just go heavier if you want it to go deeper.

kennisondan · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2007, 10:00:40 AM »

fellas : My understanding is that heavyC's BHawk is a stainless 5.5 inch, Linebaugh six shot and understand that a more or less max load for one of those ... is around the 300 grain 1300 fps jacketed flat point plus P round from Cor bon... mine would shoot a lot hotter load than I wanted to work through the recoil with... I would guess another way to phrase the question may be :
would that pistol allow you to use all posted published ruger only loads ? and I would venture the answer is yes...
I would also surmise that it will be more a function of how much recoil he can enjoy than how fast one is able to safely push a 250 or 260 grain bullet....
I am about to load some 250 grain cast and xtp's at about 1200 fps for shooting tomorrow morning a bit...

heavy c : TELL US WHAT LOAD YOU DECIDE ON AND HOW YOU LIKE IT mr. CHUCK.
DAN KENNISON

Heavy C · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2007, 03:25:23 PM »

Thanks Dan, will do.

huntersmurf · « **Reply #16 on:** December 29, 2007, 09:55:50 PM »

Getting a reloading manual was the thing to do. Now you can compare all the different bullets and powders. Those loads you mentioned are pretty hot, definitely good enough to hunt with. You will like the gun, I have 2 of them, a 7.5" & 4.5" plus a 45apc cylinder that works in both.

okie john · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2008, 08:14:33 PM »

The reluctance to talk about the 45 Colt’s top end comes from the guns. In Colt SAAs or clones, a 250@900 is the max. S&W’s go a bit faster. As you’ve found, stock Rugers do 1,400. Hamilton Bowen, David Clements, John Linebaugh, and some others build 5-shot 45 Colts that will go 100 fps beyond that, but the only way to get this data is to buy one of their guns. Ruger-only loads will destroy a SAA or clone, and a 5-shot load could wreck a Ruger. Nobody wants to talk about this because they’re worried that some clown will think his SAA clone is stronger than it is and launch his gun into orbit, killing or hurting others. That’s a good stance.

But there’s more to it than velocity. The hot-rodded 45 Colt really does its best with cast slugs over 300 grains. These bullets are not for SAAs, but a stock Ruger will move a 325 at 1,250 fps. (See Hodgdon’s 26th Data Manual.) This load shoots surprisingly flat and it just pounds things, including your gun hand. I once owned two 5-shot guns by David Clements; they pushed a 325 to nearly 1,500 fps in a 7.5” barrel. After a couple of years, I got sick of the recoil. I sold the guns and went back to a 250-grain 44 at 1,000 fps. I ever need that much gun again, I’ll pack a 416 Rigby instead.

There is a ton of good information on the "Writings" page at http://www.johnlinebaugh.net/. PM me if you have questions.

Good luck,

Okie John

Heavy C · « **Reply #18 on:** January 11, 2008, 06:49:59 AM »

Quote from: okie john on January 03, 2008, 08:14:33 PM

There is a ton of good information on the "Writings" page at http://www.johnlinebaugh.net/. PM me if you have questions.

Good luck,

Okie John

This was probably the best piece of advice given. Mr. Linebaugh has a great piece on the 45 Colt cartridge and it's capabilities. It provided detailed information not only on bullet weights and muzzle velocity, but also included pressure ranges and how it compares to the 44 mag. With all this reasearch it is surprising, to me anyway, that Ruger has not improved its tolerances with the chamber size in the 45 Colt. Thanks Okie John!

Ya'll have a good one!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #19 on:** January 11, 2008, 10:57:41 AM »

barrel length has less to do with it then most people think. Ive got 4 5/8s guns that will shoot the same load as fast as a 7.5 inch gun. Now that isnt the normal but things like barrel quality, cylinder gap have as much or more to do with velocity in a revolver then barrel lenght does.

Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 21, 2007, 02:37:55 AM

NO one mentioned bbl length !
which shows just one more factor that will make an answer a bit difficult!

Heavy C · « **Reply #20 on:** January 11, 2008, 11:06:47 AM »

In addition to what you've listed Lloyd, bullet type is also a factor.

jd45 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2008, 03:10:45 AM »

HeavyC, as far as case life goes, one factor will be the size of the chambers they'll be fired in. A lot of guns used to be bored to near-max SAAMI spec of .492, but I've read recently that since Linebaugh wrote his article, Ruger, at least, has corrected the problem. I'm waiting to take possession of an AcuSport Bisley convertible I have on layaway. It'l be interesting to see what the chambers & throats of both the .45 Colt & .45ACP cylinders slug out at. In any case I'd hang on to that sucker with BOTH hands! jd45

Heavy C · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2008, 10:03:28 AM »

Will do. So far I've just been running standard factory loads while I accumulate some brass to get to know the gun. She is a sweet shooter for sure.

okie john · « **Reply #23 on:** January 12, 2008, 11:18:42 AM »

Quote from: Heavy C on January 11, 2008, 06:49:59 AM

Thanks Okie John!

No problem.

Since Mr. Bill is no longer running things, Ruger may change some things for the better. The M-77Hawkeyes seem to be a huge step in the right direction, as are some of the new semi-auto pistols. Maybe they'll get around to the SA revolver throats at some point. On the bright side, at least the throats aren't too small.

Okie John

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** January 14, 2008, 03:15:51 AM »

how do ya think Bill did things wrong ? he left a company in the black , with more new guns than others !
had he lived he may have had a better idea than what we get !
I guess i learned early in life some people would b---h if ya hung them with a brand new rope !

mtnjack · « **Reply #25 on:** January 14, 2008, 04:45:28 AM »

Are we talking cast or jacket slugs here? would that not make difference? When do you have to worry about leading? Sorry all the??? The first post asked a simple question and look at this post. I am sorry for the hijack HeaveyC,but i see you did say jacketed in your post. Good luck with her and let us know. Mtn Jack

Heavy C · « **Reply #26 on:** January 14, 2008, 05:59:15 AM »

Shootall: we were talking about tighter tolerances on the chamber size of the cylinders. There are no other complaints about Ruger SA revolvers or Ruger as a company or what Mr. Bill did.

Mtnjack: yes the original post was about jacketed bullets and basically at what point is a 45 Colt load considered a "hot" load. I probably did not do a good job of laying out the question to begin with, but I have since gotten my answer. I just got my reloading press last weekend and will be working to get everything set up and start developing some loads for this particular revolver. My goal is to develop two loads: one for everyday target shooting/plinking with RN lead slugs, second would be a hunting load with a bigger slug maybe not necessarily faster.

okie john · « **Reply #27 on:** January 14, 2008, 06:04:21 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 14, 2008, 03:15:51 AM

how do ya think Bill did things wrong ? he left a company in the black , with more new guns than others !
had he lived he may have had a better idea than what we get !
I guess i learned early in life some people would b---h if ya hung them with a brand new rope !

Bill Ruger did a lot of things well. But every gun they sold had a horrible trigger, the customer service people were rude and proud of their ignorance, there was no email contact with people at the factory, the factory replaced expensive aftermarket parts with badly fitted stock parts when you sent a gun in for warranty work, accuracy standards were low, action surfaces were often out of true, etc. No matter how well he did, there is still room to improve.

Okie John

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** January 14, 2008, 09:36:04 AM »

okie john . you got the opposite treatment than i , they replaced a govt. model 22 for me cause the front sight was off to one side . when they got the gun back they called me , talked for a few min. about what i used the gun for and said a new one would be shipped . they were nice on the phone . as far as shipping a gun back with after market parts , give them a break , they can't warranty a gun with parts other than theirs for liability reasons . who ships guns in the price range of Rugers with good triggers ? then some like a trigger that's not to light ! at a glock match they went thru. my gun and replaced all non glock parts , put the after market parts in a bag and gave them to me . most companies tell ya not to ship grips or stocks on hand guns other than factory ones .
john i know what it feels like when a gun company treats ya bad Browning kept a gun of mine for over a year and sent it back with a broken stock and still not working , it was broken new out the box ! it cost $ 1500.00

Grayfox97128 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 14, 2008, 03:42:18 PM »

I shoot 335gr. Cast Performance bullets for hunting, they average 1,175fps in my 5.5 Ruger SS Bisley.
I have killed two med. blacktail deer with this load and got full penitration (one was a long quartering shot centered the hind quarter joint) one deer went down in it's tracks and the other crow hopped about 25 yds and went down with a lung shot.
I have also shot deer with the 250 XTP bullet at about 1,200 or so and it did just fine.
I dont think your load is to hot for most any large frame Ruger.
I also like Hornady's reloading data as it's Ruger loads seem to be about right on in my guns.
45 Colts in the Rugers can easily be loaded to have more power than any 44 mag