Finally, my 44/445 Super Mag Handi

[cptmclark]

Can't find my old post so will put this here.  After getting my hands on a new 44 mag handi, that showed good accuracy potential in brief testing, I sent it off for rechambering to 445, as discussed by some on this forum.  Just got it back and started loading ammo.  (The only manual guidance I find is Hornady's, and that's not for rifle barrels.  I'm looking for loading for accuracy help.
    The rifle was given a very long throat.  So long that I can't quite get to the lands with enough bullet to suit me still held in the case.  As examples, to touch the lands the Hornady 300 XTP has to be seated to 2.251 to touch.  Crimping in the longest of 2 cannulures makes it 2.078" long.
    The Hornady 265 FP Interlock (with 2 cannulures) is longer when crimped in the "longest" cannulure, but then leaves precious little bullet in the case for stability. 
  The shop that did the reaming explained his opinion that freebore does not affect accuracy, and that it's much more important to have a gentle sloping beginning to the rifling. 
   Any ideas about best loading for this rifle will be greatly appreciated.  Experiences from you guys who have already done this conversion?
  Here are the loads I've put together but not shot:
 300 xtp crimped in longest cannulure to 2.078, with max Hornady charge of 298;  265 FP interlock crimped in longest cannulure to 2.222" and max Hornady charge of 298.; and the 300 xtp set out to 2.251 with no crimp.
    The 300 at 2.251" leaves .227" bearing in the case; the 300 in the cannuleur at 2.078" leaves 0.355" in the case, and the 265 crimped in the cannulure at 2.222 leaves only 0.166" bearing in the case.  That doesn't seem like enough, my rule of thumb has always been one caliber in the case.  But I've not loaded for straight walled rifles either.
  Sorry for the long post.  More info is better than less I hope.  I'll leave a range report when I have it, and would appricaite yours.

The other bullet I have is the 240 Speer Gold dot.  I'll start with the max charge (Win says don't reduce) of 298 with that one too.  Only suitable powder on hand is 298.  I can't find AA 1680 anywhere.

[Ditchdigger]

I've found that the 265 gr.Hornady was the best performer on wild hogs and deer.The 240 gr.Rem. bullet that was used in the 444 ammo is another good one. I used the Sierra book for my handloads and usually about a 1/2 gr.shy of the max.load.I don't remember the exact load for the 300 gr. bullet,but it clocked 1977 fps. in mine and the other guy's were getting almost the exact same velocity's.  The 445 is quite a hunting cartridge.  Digger

[darat100]

I am not at home to look at my data right now, but I loaded the hornady xtp 180 over 1680.  I wasn't worried about speed on this one.  I was loading for some short range deer rounds.  This worked beautiful sighting in.  Never got to shoot a deer with it though, so I can't say how it will perform on them.  My 445 seems really to like most anything I fed it though.  Good luck.  This has turned into my favorite handi.  Kinda like most here like their 45-70

[cptmclark]

Thanks guys,
Have you recovered any of those 265 bullets to see their expansion?  That's a rifle bullet and I wonder how it performs at these somewhat slower velocities.  It is pretty hard, I know.  Does it give good expansion at these velocities?  How much?  I have a million questions.
--Have you measured your groups with any of your favorite loads, to give an idea of what this caliber/rifle is capable of?
--I'd love to get some range reports on loads, bullets, velocities, and group size.
--Also hunting results on bullet expansion, bullet failures, passthroughs, and so forth.  I have shot a number of deer with muzzloaders loaded very much like the velociites I expect with this handi- and have never seen high-power rifle like explosive wound cavities.  I've only used XTP bullets, and they did their job, but only created damage along the path of travel.  A 240 44 xtp did not pass though a medium size buck's neck, at about 40 yards and about 1900 fps.  (Put him down decisively none-the-less)

[Ditchdigger]

All of my 265 gr. Hornady's mushroomed perfectly.1 shot was 140 yds. on a headin away shot on a hog,and it hit the left hindquarter breaking the hip,went on to bust the rightfront shoulder,and then lodged under the skin for a total of 37".I can't find the bullet now,but the best I can remember it weighed 258 grs.after the shot.These were all shots at hogs.I also shot 1 at 40 yds. though the shoulder in the shield part,and it travelled 14"breaking the near shoulder,the heavy ribs on both sides.It lodged just as it was starting to enter the off shoulder. The shield on the near shoulder was about 1 1/2" thick and was like shooting through solid rubber.The Hornady 265 weighed in at 236 grs. These loads were chronoed at 2160 fps. Hope this helps.   Digger

[cptmclark]

Digger,

What powder were you using for that velocity.  Did you ever shoot or load for best groups?  If so, what did you find?

[coyotejoe]

All of my 265 gr. Hornady's mushroomed perfectly.1 shot was 140 yds. on a headin away shot on a hog,and it hit the left hindquarter breaking the hip,went on to bust the rightfront shoulder,and then lodged under the skin for a total of 37".I can't find the bullet now,but the best I can remember it weighed 258 grs.after the shot.These were all shots at hogs.I also shot 1 at 40 yds. though the shoulder in the shield part,and it travelled 14"breaking the near shoulder,the heavy ribs on both sides.It lodged just as it was starting to enter the off shoulder. The shield on the near shoulder was about 1 1/2" thick and was like shooting through solid rubber.The Hornady 265 weighed in at 236 grs. These loads were chronoed at 2160 fps. Hope this helps.   Digger

A 265 grain at 2160 fps?  Dang, that's a full bore .444 Marlin load!

[Ditchdigger]

I use Win. 296 in all my loads,you should see what the 180's do with a fullhouse load. My Marlin 444 does 2275 fps with the 265 gr. bullet and the 445 is a little over 100 fps. slower. The Handi barrels are about .006" larger than they should be in the chamber area,so you'll probably get some swelling in the brass.The 445 reaming tool did'nt even touch the chamber sides when I reamed mine and Lik2hunts barrels. I'm pretty sure I used 32 grs. of 296 with my load,but I'm not sure about that.It may be that you'll have to start out lower and work your way up.Our rifles shot 1" to 1 1/2" with these loads. The 240's will do 2250 fps.  Digger

[cptmclark]

Finally a range report.  Good news, and bad news.  30 degrees F and windy, so limited testing to 50 yards.
First shot some 44 mags that had tested well before re-reaming.  Three in 1/2 inch with one flyer? at 6:00 and two inches.  (300 gr XTP).  (All loads using Hornady maximum charge of W296.)
1st load    --445 300 XTP seated long and not crimped, first 3 in 1/2 inch, then a 6:00 flyer to 2", then three more in one hole 3/4" left of first group of 3.  My guess is scope finally answering my last move left command.
Clean barrel
2nd load    --445 300 XTP seated in longest cannuleur and crimped.  Two in one hole, then one at 6:00 4.4 inches low, fourth 1.5" at 6:00 from first, fifth in same hole as third, low at 6:00.  Vertical string.
Clean barrel
3rd load    --445 265 Hornady Interlock.  Three shots in vertical string measured 6.8 inches.  I didn't shoot the rest of these.
Looking at first flyer with the 44s, it was at 6:00 from the group, so my guess is it was part of group starting to string.
Good news.  The rifle functioned perfectly, nice and tight with sharp locking lever popup.  Not such a big deal unless you knew the trouble I've had getting a handi to just function.  \
Good news number two.    This type of stringing problem is probably fixable.  The horizontal deviation of all bullets was about one bullet diameter.  Now, to fix the stringing.
     I've read the handi 101, and have a general understanding of what is said there.  I still have some questions:
     --What is this O ring that is so popular?  Where do I get it?  How do I install it?
     --When I float the forearm, which is first thing on my plan, I need to know if there should be a pinch fit between the lug and the reciever, to force the forearm into the reciever.  At present, the lug bears on the aft of the lug hole, pushing the forearm aft.  If this were something I know about I'd relieve all around the lug for an upward pull only on the forearm. 
    --Before I comletely float the forearm except for a small area around the lug hole, I'd like to confirm that the forearm pressure a the tip, which is considerable, should be completely relieved with these symptoms.
            No chrono data today.  Wind would have blown it down.   I promise better in the future.

BTW, I love the Nikon Omega 250 scope I put on this rifle.  5" eye relief.  Meant for top velocity in muzzlloaders with 250 grain barrel (BDC) I should be able to it ifor any load I  settle on for this rifle.

BTW #2, whoever said there was a large vertical difference with a change in bullet weights was right on.  Don't change loads without re-zeroing.

Many thanks.