Black Powder Cartridge Reload

[nomadichuntergatherer]

My Buff Classic just screams for actual black powder loads, and I've made some up that shoot pretty well, and are an absolute hoot to shoot (though no long range tests 'til that Smith sight comes in).  My question for you reloaders is whether a person can use a case more than the usual three to five times before chucking it out if he's loading black powder or other reduced loads?

[McLernon]

Yep.

Mc

[blackpowderbill]

BP and low pressure loads in a 45-70 should allow for a very long case life. Just be sure to clean you cases right after using them. If you are doing a lot of resizing when you reload then anneal them occasionally.
At the cowboy matches, guys will have a jug of soapy water and right after firing a string they will dump their empties into the water. That will soften up the fouling and make cleaning a sinch.

[Scibaer]

Nomadic,
 can you post the load data what you have worked up ?

my Lee books shows some Triple Seven loads for the 45-70:
65gr. FFg for a 300 gr. round nose with a .30 card wad
the 65 grains is volume not weight

[stimpylu32]

Glenn

I know its more reading , but here is a real good site for loading BP in brass cases .

http://www.bpcr.net/site_docs-results_schedules/documents/bp_cartridge_reloading_dick_trenk.htm

stimpy

[Scibaer]

thanks Richard,
 i dont mind the reading at all. i got until  the 6th of Jan for classes start again 

 i dunno that i'll load any bp for the BC, but i could  lol ..

[quickdtoo]

Glenn, here's some more readin, although you probably have already seen it, it's in the FAQs.

Tim

http://www.castbullet.com/shooting/1871.htm

[Scibaer]

thanks Tim
i didnt see it, i looked thru the FAQ's for 45-70 stuff, but musta overlooked this one.. make me wonder what else i missed..
time for another look thru

[quickdtoo]

It's one of the links in the list Mac posted, URL only.

Tim

[GregP42]

Everyone,

The one thing you MUST remember when loading the Holy Black in any case, do not leave ANY air space between the powder and the base of the bullet, I compress the powder in my 45-70 about .200 and then have a .030 think wad over the powder with the bullet seated down tight to the wad. I don't resize my brass at all, just use a very very slight taper crimp after I seat the bullet to keep it from coming back out.

Greg

[Spanky]

Everyone,

The one thing you MUST remember when loading the Holy Black in any case, do not leave ANY air space between the powder and the base of the bullet, I compress the powder in my 45-70 about .200 and then have a .030 think wad over the powder with the bullet seated down tight to the wad. I don't resize my brass at all, just use a very very slight taper crimp after I seat the bullet to keep it from coming back out.

Greg

I read an article by Mike Venturino about reloading with black powder and he also said to leave no air space between the powder and the bullet.

Why is that??
I don't know anything about black powder reloading and am curious.
I would like to try reloading my 45-70 with black powder so any info. would be appreciated.


Thanks to all and Merry Christmas!!


Spanky

[GregP42]

Spanky,

Best as I can understand the burn properties of black powder, if you leave the air space you will get a secondary explosion that can ring chambers or worse. With it compressed it burns from one end out, uncompressed it can start from several places. I hope that makes sense, black powder is an explosive, smokeless isn't.

Greg

[burntmuch]

Thats how I understood it. smokeless burns BP explodes

[nomadichuntergatherer]

>can you post the load data what you have worked up ?


65 grains of GOEX back powder cowboy grind -- don't know how many F's it translates to.  Cereal box card wad and .405 grain grease-groove bullets of unknown manufacture from the bin at the local shop.  I have the powder compressed tight, all the way down to where the bullet won't go further, as in a muzzleloader.  Greased with, of all things, some contaminated Badger Balm skin ointment.

Next question -- I've read about enlarging the flash hole for BPRCs for more consistant ignition and thus better accuracy.  Of course, that doesn't lend itself to being reloaded with smokeless powder, but I already keep my enlarged flash-hole .38 (for indoor wax bullets) separated.  What do you think of the idea?

[Scibaer]

i can see it now, Badger Balm Bullets, 
i read  that using magnum primers insured better ignition with BP loads.
 either way, go shoot them badger bullets and let us know how it works out and how much smoke you get..
 i can just see it now, a 32in. BC recoiling back with all kinds gray BP smoke coming out the barrel like an old  coal fired train ! ..

[Smokin Joe]

As a BPCR shooter I'd like to offer a couple of suggestions.

First, don't use the bullet to compress the powder; you'll only deform the slug in the process. Use a compression plug against an .030 or .060 wad to compress, then seat the bullet.
 Don't enlarge the primer flash holes. Go to a hotter primer. The Federal 215 is in common use in BPCR shoots......some guys even use a lower power primer claiming it gives better accuracy.
 ALWAYS seat the bullet to touch or slightly compress the black powder; if you do, you have a cartridge; if you have air space , you have a grenade.

My favorite BPCR lube formula (thanks to Paul Matthews):

8 oz Yellow Beeswax
4 fl oz Pure Neatsfoot Oil
1 cake (3 .5 oz) Neutrogena Facial Soap

1) melt the beeswax over a low fire
2) stir in the neatsfoot oil until lumpfree
3) cut the soap into fine peels, then add to the melted mixture.

Don’t boil the mixture. A very sticky bullet lube. Looks to be very good.


Mix #2:

2 parts yellow beeswax
1 part Pure Neatsfoot Oil
1 part Murphy’s Oil Soap

(easy to make in 8-oz batches)

1) Melt 4 oz of beeswax in the microwave. Usually 6-8 minutes is about the right time.
2) Stir in 2 oz of Neatsfoot oil when beeswax is melted. Stir until the mixture is lumpfree.
3) Stir in 2 oz of Murphy’s Oil Soap, stirring continuously as the soap is added. Again, mix until there are no lumps.
4) Pour into storage containers as soon as batch is well mixed.

Very soft and sticky. Will not melt in the sun, but works well in the cold, too. NOT suitable for pan lubing.

[Scibaer]

i measured out 65 grains by volume of triple seven fffg.
using my black powder measurer. then weighted it on my powder scales.
i did it three times, it came out to 48 grains by weight..
 i looked in my hdgdon book, thats lower then listed for trapdoor loads for hogdon. (if it was H4198 )
but listed under the cowboy action loads,  triple seven , 300 gr. lead bullet pushed by 65grs by volume is listed as  1512 fps.
listed under the long range rifles for cowboy action, they list a 300gr.cast, H4198 at 35.5gr at 16k cup for a velocity of 1641.
that pretty close. roughly 130 fps difference.
its the original designation of 45-70, a .45 caliber bullet pushed by 70 grains of BP ?

[Smokin Joe]

The original load was a 500 gn bullet over 70 gns of black powder, after the Sandy Hook trials. It was later reduced for the Cavalry to a 405 gn bullet and 55 gns of powder.

What's the 4198 comparison for?

[Scibaer]

thats the powder i have to work with , that and triple seven.
sorry, i'm a newbie in this area, reloading, and i'm trying to make sense of it all , using what i have for a start point.
and asking alot of dumb questions.
glenn

[stimpylu32]

Glenn

Stop and take a deep breath for a minute , when dealing with BP your trying to compair apples to oranges . first lets get you loading smokeless then we will work on BP , they are 2 very diffrent worlds .

Richard

[Scibaer]

Ok Richard, lol..
 home alone with nothing more important to do, lol ..
your right ofcourse, back to smokeless
good nites sleep and today is a new day.. breaths deeply

[nomadichuntergatherer]

>either way, go shoot them badger bullets and let us know how it works out and how much smoke you >get..

I get about as much smoke as my .45 frontstuffer (enough to obscure vision just momentarily), a few sparks, and minute-of-really-small-pumpkin accuracy at 100 yards -- if I aim seven inches high.  Still haven't got them sights in yet, so I'm just having fun.

[RickC.]

I don't see any problem with using the bullet to compress the powder.  I've loaded thousands of rounds of .44 Mag with BP and RS Pyro with just a beeswax cookie between the powder and bullet.  Used to cook up my own lube but it was a PITA and made my seating die a real mess.  Eventually went to cast bullets already lubed with SPG, haven't used anything else since.  In fact, the avatar to the left is one such load.

 Just don't use cast bullets with normal smokeless bullet lube.  Took me forever to get the crud out of my Marlin that was about the consistency of concrete.  At CAS matches I always kept a plastic jug with soapy water in it to dump the empty cases.  Just shake 'em up at the end of the day, rinse 'em and lay the cases so that the water can run out of 'em.  Then tumble 'em when they're dry.  Your brass will look like hell, but they'll be OK!

 Oh, and clean the bore with diluted Windex, works great-- I cleaned 2 revolvers, a Marlin lever action, and a double-barrel shotgun after every match with that for 3 years.  The cheap stuff from Walmart works just as well as anything, don't waste your money on commercial blackpowder solvents.  Dry the bore with patches and/or a blowdrier, and just use WD-40 on it afterwards.  I haven't had a single problem with rust.  Ballistol is nice to have if you can find it, but WD40 works just fine for rust prevention(and sure smells a lot better).





                                                                        Rick

[blackpowderbill]

When loading cast WW bullets over BP I have had the bullet deform enough to make chambering impossible when I compressed my charge with the bullet.  I now use a home made powder compresser to compress the powder and wads so that the bullet is just seated upon the powder and wads without any deformation.