Author Topic: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.  (Read 1177 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline locobombero

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 55
Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« on: December 22, 2007, 06:04:20 AM »
So Iv reached a point I'm my hunting and life that Iv gone the Quality over Quantity way of life and have replaced 2 calibers for one. I have stepped into a real real nice 30-06 that Im going to use for Antelope to Elk (Keeping the 223 and rims for the predator/varmints). My plan was that I was going to use 180gr bullets until I started looking at some of the load data in my loading hand book and I'm really liking what the 150gr boat tail can do for velocity. Couple things to keep in mind. I rarely have ever had the change to shoot at game past 400yds in the areas I hunt. 2 - I don't feel comfortable taking those shots any how. I know 150gr projectiles will do fine on antelope, Couse, and Mulies.....but am I going to be ok with elk? I guess I could work up two separate loads and just adjust the scope for which ever load I'm using but I was trying to keep things simple and consistent. Another one of the reasons Im going to a single caliber is so I can become more proficient with my shooting vs. better with one over the other with multiple calibers. So what say you? 150gr or 180gr?
Thanks

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26946
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2007, 06:18:56 AM »
I'm a FIRM BELIEVER in the 180 grain bullet for the .30-06. I'd suggest the newer 180 Nosler Accubond or Hornady Interbond if flatness of trajectory is your concern. But to me it really isn't the do all end all in bullet selection and I still like the Nosler PT. For a one bullet for everything load those are the three I select from.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline Siskiyou

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3417
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2007, 12:04:02 PM »
It is hard to find an argument not in favor of the 180 grain bullet in the 30-06.  You will get good expansion and penetration out of most 180-grain bullets on deer, even lightweight deer.  In fact I have seen a number of deer penetrated end-to-end with 180 grain bullets from the 30-06. 

While I have used the –06 on deer I have not used it on elk.  I have had friends who have been successful with 180 grain factory ammunition on elk.  A couple who have been successful with Nosler Partition and Winchester Fail Safe had loads.  The Fail Safe offered almost length wise penetration.

I favor the 165-grain bullets in the 30-06, .308, and .300 Savage for deer in brush country where you might be shooting two or three hundred yards across an arroyo.  There is enough in the 165 grain bullets that they will punch a hole in a rotten pine stump or a yucca stalk and kill the deer on the other side.  The 180-grain bullet will do both, but I am not sure of the 150-grain boattail. 



Exit hole from a 165 grain Nosler Patition fire from a 300 Sav.  Bullet hit front edge of the right shoulder ran up the spine and exited the left side of the lower neck.  This is the same bullet I loaded for black bear and deer in the 30-06.  In fact the bullet came out of the same lot.  Muzzle velocity was Chrony at approximately 2670 fps.  I loaded the –06 in my pre-Chrony days, but I expect the velocity was around 2880-2900 pushed by H414.  In this case the 50-yard results may simulate 150-200 yards results with a -06.

I have killed some deer with boattail bullets and there has been a tendency for them to shed the jacket.  I consider the boattail successful on deer, but would pass on elk.  My experience on even a large antelope is that they are tenderer then a deer and the rapid expansion provided by a 150-grain bullet might have an advantage over a tougher 180-grain bullet.
There is a learning process to effectively using a gps.  Do not throw your compass and map away!

Boycott: San Francisco, L.A., Oakland, and City of Sacramento, CA.

Offline burntmuch

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (114)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2007, 12:09:14 PM »
165 grn Nosler partition. One load for everything.
I dont care what gun Im using as long as Im hunting

Offline Coyote Hunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2534
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2007, 01:12:23 PM »
I save the 180's for the .300 Win Mag and use 165's in the .30-06 and .308 Win.
Coyote Hunter
NRA, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!

Offline jhalcott

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1869
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2007, 05:31:06 PM »
at 2500fps the 180 PT nosler has ~2500 fpe at the muzzle.Zeroed at 200 it drops to~ -29 ". It has just UNDER 1300 fpe at 400 yards.The 150 PT at 2900fps has ~2800fpe at the muzzle. Zeroed at 200 yards it drops to -22 1/2" and still has over just 1300 fpe at 400 yards ! Numbers aside, Elk are a LOT harder to kill than deer. If I was after ELK, I'd go with the 180's. Will the extra weight cause a miss on a deer? NOT to my way of thinking. you are only talking about another 6-7 inches of drop. If you just HAVE to settle on ONE bullet for elk and deer it will have to be  the 180. At least you will not have to cuss your self for grabbing the WRONG box of ammo.

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2007, 10:52:11 AM »
No reason for the '06 to get just 2,500fps with a 180, 2,750-2,825 can be done with just about any '06.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2007, 10:58:58 AM »
If it must be a 150 vs a 180, 180 hands down!! The 180 Accubond would be my choice & the Part. Horn, TSX and others would work also, the 180 would be my choice.But a couple of 165's would work also. The new 168TTSX would be a kick butt bullet for everything you want. I will be testing some in a 308 next year, Lord willing. They look promising but for an alround the 180 is hard to fault.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline steve4102

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2007, 05:30:19 PM »
at 2500fps the 180 PT nosler has ~2500 fpe at the muzzle.Zeroed at 200 it drops to~ -29 ". It has just UNDER 1300 fpe at 400 yards.The 150 PT at 2900fps has ~2800fpe at the muzzle. Zeroed at 200 yards it drops to -22 1/2" and still has over just 1300 fpe at 400 yards !

  2500fps is pretty anemic for a modern action 30-06/180 bullets.  You should have no problem reaching 2750-2850fps/180gr bullets.   I would start with the 180gr bullets.  Work up loads with your choice of bullets and powder and see where this road takes you.  If you find an accurate load with acceptable velocity then you are good to go.  If you can't reach your desired accuracy with the 180's I would drop down to the 165's.  I would only go to the 150's if the rifle wouldn't shoot the larger bullets.  JMHO

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26946
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2007, 06:05:06 PM »
No reason for the '06 to get just 2,500fps with a 180, 2,750-2,825 can be done with just about any '06.

I've seen such numbers in reloading manuals but never managed it. In fact I don't recall ever exceeding 2700 fps with any .30-06 rifle I've ever owned. I've used all the best powders listed and reached the max book loads and NEVER seen 2750 fps in a .30-06 that I own and I've owned a bunch of them and chrono'ed loads in many.

Maybe it's do able but not in rifles with 22" barrels like most come with in my opinion, not at book max powder loads at any rate. Either that or I've been unlucky enough to get a lot of slow barrels in my time. The last one I worked extensively with was my R700 LSS Mtn. Rifle with 22" barrel. I NEVER saw 2700 on the chrono with any book max load I ran thru it and I ran a bunch of them thru it. It was accurate but it sure never ran over 2700 fps.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Online Lloyd Smale

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (32)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18273
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2007, 12:45:32 AM »
another fan of the 165s in the non mag .30s
blue lives matter

Offline GrassLakeRon

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 515
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2007, 03:36:31 AM »
I have the same problem as you.  I have for several years taken whitetail deer with an 06' and 150 grain bullets.  All heart/lung shots, and all of them ran!  Yes they all died in the end, but I am a firm believer in quick kills.  180's in the 06' seem to do just that.  My next reloading event will be 180 grain Hornady SST's.  All of my stock in 150 I will shoot up at the range (100 rounds) and they will be loaded with 180's.  I am even thinking about 200's.

Just my 2 cents

Ron


Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2007, 03:49:10 PM »
No reason for the '06 to get just 2,500fps with a 180, 2,750-2,825 can be done with just about any '06.

I've seen such numbers in reloading manuals but never managed it. In fact I don't recall ever exceeding 2700 fps with any .30-06 rifle I've ever owned. I've used all the best powders listed and reached the max book loads and NEVER seen 2750 fps in a .30-06 that I own and I've owned a bunch of them and chrono'ed loads in many.

Maybe it's do able but not in rifles with 22" barrels like most come with in my opinion, not at book max powder loads at any rate. Either that or I've been unlucky enough to get a lot of slow barrels in my time. The last one I worked extensively with was my R700 LSS Mtn. Rifle with 22" barrel. I NEVER saw 2700 on the chrono with any book max load I ran thru it and I ran a bunch of them thru it. It was accurate but it sure never ran over 2700 fps.

Mr. Graybeard, I use RL22 & get over 2,800fps. Do, I have a fast barrel, don't know. Case life is good.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Brithunter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2007, 11:02:32 PM »
The 165 grain would be my choice and in fact is what I use  ;D

Offline rickt300

  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2937
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2007, 04:56:23 AM »
I used the 180 grain Speer Hotcor for many years on game from antelope to elk. My rifle has a 2 groove military barrel on my 03A3 Springfield and it seems to be a fast barrel, it gives 2850 fps using a max charge of H4831. But as I grew out of poverty/one gun does all I started buying many different rifles and could load one for every specific circumstance. Best of both worlds is to own two 30-06's and keep one sighted in for 180's and one sighted in for 150's.
I have been identified as Anti-Federalist, I prefer Advocate for Anarchy.

Offline coop2564

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2007, 06:08:40 AM »
http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/30-06SpringfieldWeb.pdf

I use a 130gr barnes TSX BT in my .308 and would not hesitate shooting an elk out to 300yds with it. But most of my hunting is deer. If I knew I would be hunting larger game a lot I would load the 150 gr TSX BT.
Browning Illusion Bow
Omega Thumbhole .50_NEF Huntsman .50
Knight KP1 .243_Custom Rem 700 .308_Browning Safari Bar .300 WSM, Ruger No.1 30-06
Taurus .41 rem mag Raging Bull_S&W M&P 40C_Browning BuckMark .22_Savage 93R .17HMR

Offline PartsMan

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1351
  • Gender: Male
  • Proud Handi Owner
    • myspace
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2007, 06:27:33 AM »
I have no experience with elk but 150g bullets are said to be just fine from 270s.
I don't see why going to 30 cal would require more lead.

Offline beemanbeme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2587
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2007, 02:45:22 PM »
I'd load 57grs of IMR4350 behind a 165gr bullet of your choice and use it on everything except elk.  That load should give you @ 2800fps.  Don't know if another 100fps would kill the stuff any deader or not but that load killed a lot of stuff very dead for me.
I've only killed one elk with a 30-06 and I used a 200gr bullet to do that.  If you switched over to a 180 for elk (and I certainly would at least), it shouldn't take much to resight your rifle. 

Offline jhalcott

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1869
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2007, 05:08:38 PM »
  What ever bullet you go with , practice a few times a year with it. Do this again right before hunting season so you will have a better idea what to expect when you are in the field. Wear your hunting clothes so you will not find out to late that it is impossible to get into some field positions. Believe it when I say a couple hundred FPS wont make THAT much of a difference. People have been killing Elk and deer with 30-30 AND 300 weatherby's for years. Just put the bullet in the right place!

Offline nomosendero

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2007, 07:30:13 PM »
I have no experience with elk but 150g bullets are said to be just fine from 270s.
I don't see why going to 30 cal would require more lead.

It for sure would take more lead. Penetration is a function of Sectional Density, bullet construction, & Velocity. The SD of a 270cal 150gr. bullet is .279, very substanial. The SD of a 150 30cal is .226, not too good, usually not an issue for Deer unless driven very fast or a too fragile bulllet or both, but not good at all for an Elk. You have to go up to a 180gr. to get close to the SD of a 150gr 270 cal, the 180gr. 30 cal. .271 which is very close. So a 150gr. 270 part. for example if fired at 2,800fps would penetrate about the same as a 30 cal 180gr. Part. @ 2,800fps.  The TSX changes those rules some, but I would not take it as far as some.
You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline Tom W.

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1294
  • Gender: Male
  • Warning... Does not play well with others!
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2007, 09:36:03 AM »
I shoot the 180's from my Ruger #1 It likes them. I don't have the fastest load in the books, but when the rifle goes boom, I can get the camera.
Tom
Alabama Hunter and firearms safety instructor

I really like my handguns!

Offline lilabner

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 577
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2007, 04:37:43 AM »
There are different types of elk hunting and I think different bullet weights are in order. Hunting in the "dark" timber where shots will be taken at a maximum of 100-150 yards, the 200 gr. bullet seems a good choice to me. Roosevelt elk in the coastal "jungles" are a close range proposition. Where there are also openings that may offer longer shots, the 180 is a good choice. If long shots are the rule rather than the exception, I like a 165 gr. Nosler partition loaded over 59 gr. of H4350. In my '06, accuracy is best with the 165 gr. bullet. I think that is true of many rifles. The 165 is my bullet of choice for mule deer.

Offline longwinters

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3070
Re: Help me with a 150gr-180gr delema.
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2007, 05:34:40 AM »
In the past I would say it was hard to argue against the 180 gn out of an 06.  But with the Partitions and the newer bullets I would go with the 165's and not the 150's if elk were on the menu.

Long
Life is short......eternity is long.