Model 70 accurizing or new Tikka?

[Bowjack]

I have a model 70 (1996) that shoots okay 1 1/2" but I was thinking of either accurizing it by or buying a new Tikka also in 30/06.  However, I noticed the Tikka has a 22" barrel whereas my model 70 has a 24" barrel.  Will I lose too much velocity/energy with the 22", or do you even think investing in a new rifle and scope is worth it when I can send the gun out to a gunsmith such as Hill County to have it accurized?  The gun wil be used for deer, bear and hopefully larger stuff like elk and moose if financially possible?

[litman252]

How many rounds have you tried in the Win?  I'd try several more if you have tried less than 4 or 5.  Next step would be hand loads.  Have you removed the scope and checked that mounts and rings are tight??  Check action to stock bolts and fit??
If all is good I'd rather send out the current one, re-crowning could make a heck of a difference, of course I have talked myself into a Tikka in 6.5x55 Swede sometime soon...............

Tony

[Bowjack]

I had put at least a box through it, but the way people talk up the Tikka, I have been interested.  However, I have heard that they may shed 200fps with the short barrel, and thus the 30/06 is now a .308.  Is thisw cause for concern.

In addition, since I have the gun already, I thought it would be cheaper to make it a real tack driver by accurizing it than to shell out for a new gun and scope, even if it is a reasonably priced one.

I do like the look and feel of the model 70 though.

[Brithunter]

Hi There,

      Ahhhhh now your groups with the Winchester, are they rounded or are they strung out one way more than the other?

     Reason I ask is that if they are nicely rounded then trying to accurise the rifle might proove difficult  but if they are strung one way then your chances of improving it are very good  The next thing to consider is how far your willing to go, just a bedding job? but if that does not give the desired results are you willing to go further? say with Blueprinting/trueign up action and crown?

     Now you say that 1 1/2 MOA is OK however I would suggest seriously considering a new rifle and keeping that Winchester so at least (if the funds are available of course ) so you have something to shoot whilst investigating and improving the Winchester. What to get? well whatever you get just make sure yoru comfortable with it as if it fits you and feels good your likely to shoot better with it  .

Let us know how it turns out  .

[Mikey]

Bowjack:  I doubt any local gunshop will give you what your M70 is worth on a trade for a Tikka and I would keep the M70.  I don't know what scope your M70 is wearing or what ammo you are using but I would stay with the M70 before dumping it for somewthing else in the same caliber.

The difference between a 22 and 24" bbl is not going to matter one bit, really.  It does not turn an 06 into a 308.  And please notice that every single time someone comes out with a new 308 or new 308 round, they always compare it to the 06.  Stay with the 06.

As for the accuracy of your M70 - that can be improved although just one box of ammo hasn't even settled the action into the stock, actually.  I don't know how much work you can do yourself but if it is a minimal amount then please consider the following:  (1) new scope - it doesn't have to be a wildly expensive scope but one matched to your hunting style.  You can get a new Bushnell for around $100 (here) or you can spend four times that amount for a Leupold, and get the same sight picture.  (2)  accurizing the rifle - have a gunsmith glass bed the acton and free-float the barrel.  This should be an inexpensive enhancement.  And (3) you haven't fired the gun at all, period.  One box of factory ammo or even reloads won't even get the barrel dirty.  You need to break that rifle in.  Try more ammo, different brands or even reloads if they are available to you.  My older M70 (circa 1970) prefers either Winchester or Federal 180 gn factory loads.  Now this is an insult to me as I am a hand loader and other 06s I have owned preferred hand loaded ammo over factory loads. 

We had a Beretta, Sako and Tikka demo/display this past year at our local range.  Accuracy out of the box was good for those who took their shots standing and good off the bench but wasn't anything better than one fella with an older 6.5 Swede and another with a standard old plain jane M70.

My M70 wouldn't shoot fer schmdit until I bedded the action, now ti's pretty good. 

You really need to break that rifle in.  It is still new.  I think that no matter how advertised, a new rifle might give you the same 'issues' regardless of the brand name if it isn't broken in properly.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[Rangr44]

Do the Model 70.

I bought a minty, used M70 Featherweight 6.5X55 w/Leupold 2-7x33, cheap,  that shot 5" 100yd groups when I first tried it. I guess that's why it was so cheap.

Upon examination, it appeared someone had glass bedded it improperly, without any clearance(s) at the front & sides of the recoil lug & at the rear of the rear tang. In addition, the featherweight barrel had been free-floated.  The combination set up & restricted vibrations that were incompatible with accuracy.

I scraped out clearances at the proper places, and added a barrel shim 1" from the forearm tip for a barrel pressure point.

At the next range session, I was rewarded with several 3/4"- 1" groups @ 100yds, off a sandbag rest.

I didn't bother adjusting the trigger.

[Bowjack]

Thank you all!  I know I should spend more time with this gun, as I love the ergonomic feel of the gun the potential of the gun and caliber.  I purchased the Model 70 after reading so many articles and books by Jack O'Connor as a kid, but I find this website and see people find extreme accuracy with their Remingtons and Tikkas.  Not sure who said it, but "only accurate guns are interesting."  So, accordingly I wanted to either exploit this gun to its fullest potential or swap for a different one.

Brithunter, I am a regular surfer here and love your posts.  The groups were spread, so I was unable to know what to do.  I was shooting my Model 99 in .300 Savage the same day and the 99 outshot the Model 70.  Now that gun is an absolute joy.

Mikey, I will probably stay with this gun, that is why I was thinking of accurizing it, but I hear so much about these Tikkas etc.  the scope it wears is a Leupold Vari IIX 3-9.

Bithunter, Mikey, or anyone else, why is there a difference in barrel length between the manufacturers.  Rem and Win seemed to utilize a 24" barrel to maximize velocity and powder, yet most other guns are in the 22" range.  In addition, most stqats are based upon a 24" barrel.

Sorry for the novice questions, but I love this site and the information so readily supplied.

[Brithunter]

Brithunter, Mikey, or anyone else, why is there a difference in barrel length between the manufacturers.  Rem and Win seemed to utilize a 24" barrel to maximize velocity and powder, yet most other guns are in the 22" range.  In addition, most stqats are based upon a 24" barrel.

      Fashion  just think how many times you have read about someone wanting to cut the barrel down because the rifle is too long. Same goes for the short action thing  the funny thing is that they don't feel handicapped with a shotgun with 28" or 30" barrels which is just as long as the standard rifle 

     Style also comes into effect as for instance I have a .270 rifle which hasa 20" barrel. This is because it's a Stutzen or Mannlicher fullstock style. Older rifles had longer barrels, my 1935 Husqvarna Model 46 has a 25" barrel. Hmmm will have to measure a few of the real oldies and see what lengths they have.

[Dave in WV]

Make sure the action screws are tight. Not too tight but good and snug. If you didn't mount the scope make sure the base and ring screws are secure. Try different ammo. If I want accuracy at the bench I have to stay away from caffine. 

[wareagleguy]

As a owner of a Tikka T3 in 30/06 I can tell you you will love it!!!  It is a deer killing machine.  1 inch groups @ 100 yards is no problem with about any ammo.   I mostly reload but found this rifle will shoot with about any factory load so I have yet to reload for it.  I would say get the Tikka.

[Zachary]

Accurizing your M70 should improve its groups.  However, how much money are you willing to spend?  I have a M70 in 375H&H and it shoots virtually through the same hole with plane jane Federal 300 grain Hi-Shocks, but I spent a fortune on it.

I also own several Tikkas, and they are all shooters out the box; inch or less at 100 yards with virtually any brand of factory ammo I put in them.

Zachary

[Mikey]

Bowjack:  Brithunter x 2.  Mikey.

[BruceP]

Bowjack, before doing anything else remove the bolt and if you can run a finger into the bottom bolt lug recess and see if you can feel the end of the action screw.
My model 70 bought back in around '86 shot 1.5 - 2 inch groups from the box. After I had it bedded it was about 1.25 - 1.5 inches. Then one day while cleaning it I found that the forward action screw was so long that it came through into the recess for the bolt lug. Checking the side of the lug I found some light scratches on it. I ground a couple of threads off the screw and now the gun will do under an inch with the right loads.
While cleaning an older Remington ADL to sell (I bought the gun to build a custom rifle but that fell through) I found the same problem with the action screw. I never shot that rifle but wonder what kind of groups the previous owner got and what it will do now that I cut that screw off.

Bruce

[Bowjack]

I will hold onto the rifle as I love the lines of it and hope to put more rounds through it to really determine it's true potential and possibly have it worked on so it can really shoot. 

Now, my new dilemma exacerbated by Zachary and others and their frequent ringing endorsements of Tikka.  Should I get a new Tikka T3 or a new Remington XCR in 30/06.

Which do you guys prefer?  From what i have read here, Graybeard is a fan of Remington and Zachary a fan of Tikka and most opinions are split between the two.

Any suggestions?  I am a big fan of 30/06, so the caliber is not the question.

Again, do you think there is a noticeable difference between the two barrel lengths?

[dave375hh]

Bowjack,

I cannot understand why you are in such a hurry to dump the mod 70. You've only shot one box of factory loads through it and you want to give up?? The Tikka is a fine rifle but so is the mod 70 it just may or may not need a little tweaking. It may be as simple as finding the ammo it likes. I don't know what fool told you there's 200 fps between a 22" & a 24" Barrel, but it's more like 30-50 fps.

Tell you what you buy the tikka and I'll take the mod 70 and in 6 mos we'll have a shoot off, winner takes both rifles. I'll buy the mod 70 from you and then take both at the shoot off.

OK I'm an AH but I have to ask, how many times have you been married?

[Brithunter]

Hi Bowjack,

Should I get a new Tikka T3 or a new Remington XCR in 30/06.
 

    Are you serious?


     Now come on there is now real choice  it has to be the Tikka  I do not own either but I will more than likely be shooting a Tikka this evening as a friend and I are off to the tunnel range this evening and he has two Tikka's and a Sako Finnlite. The Tikka's are an older mod 595 and a T3 tactical.

    Oh another thing I noticed was this in a reply:-

Bowjack, before doing anything else remove the bolt and if you can run a finger into the bottom bolt lug recess and see if you can feel the end of the action screw.

My model 70 bought back in around '86 shot 1.5 - 2 inch groups from the box. After I had it bedded it was about 1.25 - 1.5 inches. Then one day while cleaning it I found that the forward action screw was so long that it came through into the recess for the bolt lug. Checking the side of the lug I found some light scratches on it. I ground a couple of threads off the screw and now the gun will do under an inch with the right loads.

While cleaning an older Remington ADL to sell (I bought the gun to build a custom rifle but that fell through) I found the same problem with the action screw. I never shot that rifle but wonder what kind of groups the previous owner got and what it will do now that I cut that screw off.

    Talk about lack of quality control I don't recall ANY of my rifles even having the hole drilled through! they are all blind holes but then again I don't have any Remingtons nor Winchesters. The only Winchester I had was a P-14 and I have a 3 sporter rifles built on P-14 actions (one at least is a Winchester action denoted by the W prefix) and all have blind holes as did the ERA one I had years ago. This must be one of their newer "cost cutting" ideas   

[Bowjack]

375HH:  You might be on to something I once had a quality control issue with my ex-wife, but when I spoke to her customer service dept. I realized I was getting nowhere.  In time, I subsequently upgraded.  However, lo in more time I have come full circle, and found that all brands are pretty much similar. 

On this board I hear nothing but rave reviews from Tikka owners.  I can't understand why "American" companies can't replicate the satisfaction and performance as CZ or Tikka, and how long established companies seem to fade away or resort to marketing accessories rather than accomplishing their primary mission. 

For instance, I became a Benelli owner after using one (SBE II) during a hunt.  My shotgun had malfunctioned and a friend's Benelli was flawless.  When I duck hunt now, my friends now complain about me and my Benelli clearing the skies.  These other companies are better performing, more innovative, and more responsive in the hands of the shooter and to the customer.

I did think the new Remingtons XCR's looked real nice though.

[Old English]

If you want a super accurate rifle made by an innovative US company, buy a Savage. Failing that, Tikka's are exceedingly nice rifles.

[Rangr44]

[Not sure who said it, but "only accurate guns are interesting".]

IIRC, that was Townsend Whelan, who also is the originator of the quote: "The .30-06 is never a mistake".

[mike30-06]

Our military and police snipers use Remington's more than anything else.
I wonder why?

[litman252]

Our military and police snipers use Remington's more than anything else.
I wonder why?

I'm guessing the same quality that the military uses for Remington costs more than a Tikka of the same accuracy, at a consumer level.

Just my opinion..............

Tony

[Brithunter]

The reason they use Remington's is because Remington put in the lowest bid on the contract, pure and simple. Lots of Police buyers follow the military lead and Remington has a Police aimed sales pitch. Funny thing is that if you go to watch or compete in any serious target shooting match here I doubt you will see one Remington on the line. However you will see AI (Accuracy International).

I must admit having shot both Remington 700 VSS and the Tikka T3 Tactical and also a Sako 75 Finnlite I would choose the T3 Tactical for a heavy barrel and the Finnlite for a lightweight over the Remington 700 any day.

[Zachary]

  From what i have read here, Graybeard is a fan of Remington and Zachary a fan of Tikka and most opinions are split between the two.

Actually, I probably own more Remingtons than Tikkas, and virtually all of my Remingtons are accurate shooters, just like my Tikkas.  It's just that I find that the quality and fit and finish of the Tikkas is better than that of the Remingtons - especially the newer ones.  I especially love the quality that is evident in the cycling of the bolt action.  I own several Tikkas and can personally vouch for their quality, fit & finish, and accuracy.  As such, I prefer them over most rifles in the $500 to $600 price range.  My second choice is Remington.

However, I have heard, but have not yet personally confirmed, that CZ, while an already excellent rifle in its own right, and in my opinion just one notch below a Tikka, have actually undergone new quality control measures and are noticeably better made rifles.  If this is true, then the new CZ will rifle the Tikkas.

Zachary