Author Topic: Done Deal! (Read 2405 times)

Swampman · « **on:** December 26, 2007, 11:35:49 AM »

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYW02426122007-1.htm

30-06man · « **Reply #1 on:** December 26, 2007, 11:41:36 AM »

I don't know what to expect now.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** December 26, 2007, 11:44:16 AM »

This the second such purchase in recent years that absolutely blows my mind.

Remington has been on the verge of bankruptcy for years and up for sale themselves many times. Recently they were purchased by Cerberus an investment conglomerate and now just barely over being purchased are buying yet another company.

S&W did the same buying out TC just a short while ago after themselves being bought only a short while prior under pretty dire circumstances.

In some ways these deals make me happy and in some make me very leery. Clearly they seem now to have more operating capaital than when the companies were independent and standing on their own but having so few owners of so many firearms manufacturers kinda bothers me as well. All it would take is some super rich person who hates guns to buy up one or more of these new multi-name companies to almost end firearms production in the US. That worries me as there are plenty of folks out there with enough money and enough hatred of guns.

30-06man · « **Reply #3 on:** December 26, 2007, 11:47:23 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on December 26, 2007, 11:44:16 AM

This the second such purchase in recent years that absolutely blows my mind.

Remington has been on the verge of bankruptcy for years and up for sale themselves many times. Recently they were purchased by Cerberus an investment conglomerate and now just barely over being purchased are buying yet another company.

S&W did the same buying out TC just a short while ago after themselves being bought only a short while prior under pretty dire circumstances.

In some ways these deals make me happy and in some make me very leery. Clearly they seem now to have more operating capaital than when the companies were independent and standing on their own but having so few owners of so many firearms manufacturers kinda bothers me as well. All it would take is some super rich person who hates guns to buy up one or more of these new multi-name companies to almost end firearms production in the US. That worries me as there are plenty of folks out there with enough money and enough hatred of guns.

Never thought of it like that.

Swampman · « **Reply #4 on:** December 26, 2007, 12:34:57 PM »

I hope it will be a good thing. Remington got rid of the J-lock, maybe they'll get rid of the cross bolt safety.

Jerry Lester · « **Reply #5 on:** December 26, 2007, 04:38:26 PM »

I'm with GB on this thing. It worries me to death for exactly the reasons he just laid out. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if some gun hater with tons of money, as well as a enough influence isn't pushing for these mergers simply to line it up so he can end it all in one sweep.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #6 on:** December 26, 2007, 11:01:03 PM »

I have thoughts both ways. Its sad to see company's like winchester and marlin that cant make a profit in modern days have to change. But then i look at all the neat stuff smith and wesson has come out with lately and even tc has introduced a number of new guns since there merger. I guess it makes the company stronger and gives them capital to bring new products to us. I guess the bottom line for me is its better for them to merge then to shut down and cost good americans there jobs.

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2007, 12:25:54 AM »

We cost good Americans their jobs when we buy imported guns like CZ & Sako.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2007, 01:32:23 AM »

I'm going with the Boss on this one. My concern is what will happen if either of these new conglomerates go 'English', as S&W did before it went bankrupt, and begin signing agreements with politicians of the ilk of klinton and cuomo. Mikey.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2007, 07:57:07 AM »

Mikey thats something we unfortunately dont have control of. Im sure its just going to get worse in the future. Personaly it doesnt mean squat to me whether a smith has a safety on it or not. Ive had a few and never had a problem with them and just disable them anyway. Hell its hard to find a levergun or a handgun without a saftey of some sort on them. One other good thing that may come from this merger is maybe the quality control at marlin that has been going steadly down hill will improve. The fact that they were having money problems probably contributed to it and they will have alot more resorces behind them now. They will even have rems ammo manufactureing so maybe we will see more new stuff. (like the .50 alaskan ive been dreaming of)

scout34 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2007, 12:44:30 PM »

I'm not sure why Marlin felt it had to merge with "Big Green" in order to carry it into the next century (the press release on Marlin's website says something about that). They have been doing very well all on their own.

When Remington bought out the Zastava contract to produce Mauser '98s, all that happened was that you couldn't buy inexpensive Charles Daly brand rifles any more. Price went up about $200. Remington also bought that Russian arms manufacturer when they introduced the Spartan line. Now there is the R-15, is that DPMS? I know they bought out an AR manufacturer, I just can't remember who.

All of this is under the Cerberus holding company. I don't know about you, but I find it a bit ominous that someone would choose to name their company after the seven headed beast that guards the gates of hell.

Also, why haven't they diversified into the pistol market?

tomzuki · « **Reply #11 on:** December 27, 2007, 01:18:10 PM »

I've seen this so many times in other industries it makes me sick! Growth by acquisitions. Gasoline Companies, Banks, Food Production, Etc. All it does is drive up the prices, limit options and create ill will for a dedicated customer. Remember when AMF bought Harley-Davidson?? How much better did the bikes get?? Or when Enron purchased all those Electric Generating Stations, yah right, the competition was supposed to lower electric bills. Or how about Browning buying USRA. I think that Marlin went into such debt acquiring H&R/NEF that they were easy pickings for another company with a stronger cash position to drop the bomb on them. You know, "Make em an offer they can't refuse". Whoever the new owner of Remington/Marlin is, I know one thing about then already. They don't know the business, their consumers, or anything about running an American Firearms Company. They will have a learning curve figuring it out in the next few years and we consumers will pay an awfull price for it. And when they run this thing into the ground they will scratch their heads and wonder why no-one wants to buy the products that THEY THINK WE WANT, or worse maybe they will only make weapons for the worlds military applications and sell them to World Govts for tremendous profits..................

Keith L · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2007, 12:04:14 AM »

Growth by acquisition is a common tool in the world of manufacturing finance these days, and a good one at that. It is a fast way for companies to increase their market offerings quickly as long as they have the cash to do it.

Venture capitol companies have one focus, and that is making money. The good ones don't mess around with success, provide investment money to remove bottlenecks in production, and usually sell for a profit the companies they buy in 5-7 years. If that is the case here in a few years both Marlin and Remington are likely to be independent again, with updated processes and a brighter future.

If they are going the path discussed by Bill that is another matter. It leaves the relm of venture capitol, goes counter to the plan of making money (huge loss to buy existing companies just to shut them down), and starts being dangerous. I can't predict the outcome of behavior like that.

S.B. · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2007, 03:16:08 AM »

First, let me say, I vote pro gun but the complaints here are all based on what the republican party has given us? OK now. let the flogging begin.

six_gunz · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2007, 03:30:02 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 27, 2007, 12:25:54 AM

We cost good Americans their jobs when we buy imported guns like CZ & Sako.

Exactly!!!

Swampman · « **Reply #15 on:** December 29, 2007, 12:45:30 PM »

"the complaints here are all based on what the republican party has given us?"

B.S.

S.B. · « **Reply #16 on:** December 30, 2007, 02:52:55 AM »

Swampman, since you are a true believer in the Republican party thought you would enjoy this post? As you can see treachery and deceit know no boundaries?

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,133833.0.html

Swampman · « **Reply #17 on:** December 30, 2007, 03:00:11 AM »

I still vote Republican every chance I get and probably always will. I'm a gun owner and a Christian. I can't vote for a Democrat as they are friends of neither gun owners or Christians.

I won't waste my vote on a third party.

I didn't see anyone on the list I'd vote for except maybe Scooter. I don't believe he did anything wrong. I hope he gets a pardon.

Cottonwood · « **Reply #18 on:** December 30, 2007, 03:14:47 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on December 30, 2007, 03:00:11 AM

I still vote Republican every chance I get and probably always will. I'm a gun owner and a Christian. I can't vote for a Democrat as they are friends of neither gun owners or Christians.

I won't waste my vote on a third party.

I didn't see anyone on the list I'd vote for except maybe Scooter. I don't believe he did anything wrong. I hope he gets a pardon.

Well said, and its just about the way I feel as well.

Now on the recent news about the purchase... I think it could be a good thing for strength for both companies.

JMHO

S.B. · « **Reply #19 on:** December 30, 2007, 03:24:47 AM »

Swampman, I feel the same way. I'm union but, can't back liberals ( read communists). And, I also am a christian. Maybe it's how ones raised? My point and comment were meant to show that we must always be on our guard.

Keith L · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2007, 04:30:29 AM »

Guys, this is the Marlin Lever Action Centerfire Rifle forum. Lets keep it to talk about Marlin and the guns, and leave the politics to the other forums. This thread has strayed way off topic, and any more politics and I will have to remove all the political posts.

Thanks

Keith

ratgunner · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2007, 06:48:20 AM »

Well I dont like it one bit,no sir not one bit.

Chilachuck · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2007, 07:12:58 AM »

Did anyone else notice the wording in the Spartan single shot rifle description? It took me all day to figure out where I'd seen that sort of drek before.

Remington used someone who is used to describing the latest women's fashions to describe the rifle.

(Graybeard, I cannot find the link. Could you put it up again, please?)

Keith L · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2007, 08:22:44 AM »

I wanted one of the Spartan combo guns, but wouldn't buy one until I saw one. By the time I did (nearly a year later) I was glad I waited. It looked like hammered crap. I just hope the Marlin factory stays in operation, and that Remington doesn't ship production to Russia, or to Spain like their new muzzleloaders.

30-06man · « **Reply #24 on:** December 30, 2007, 11:21:17 AM »

They just have someone making the muzzle loader for them. I think they have a contract for Traditions to make that muzzle loader for a while(not sure how long).

Graybeard · « **Reply #25 on:** December 30, 2007, 12:46:33 PM »

Quote

(Graybeard, I cannot find the link. Could you put it up again, please?)

I have no clue what link you're asking about. You'll have to refresh my memory for me to help.

Keith L · « **Reply #26 on:** December 30, 2007, 12:52:21 PM »

Quote from: 30-06man on December 30, 2007, 11:21:17 AM

They just have someone making the muzzle loader for them. I think they have a contract for Traditions to make that muzzle loader for a while(not sure how long).

Point is that they accepted sub par manufacturing for some of their product. In the day I used to have lots of Remington guns, and still have a 870 TC and a couple of 700BDLs as well as some older .22 rifles. Looks to me like they don't take care of business like they used to. I hope they don't do that to Marlin.

30-06man · « **Reply #27 on:** December 30, 2007, 12:57:03 PM »

The muzzle loader that they have isn't all that bad to be honest. But that's another story. As far as any of the other manufactures like TC I wouldn't worry about them going anywhere. I would expect Rem to move overseas before Marlin.

Keith L · « **Reply #28 on:** December 30, 2007, 02:22:29 PM »

Quote from: 30-06man on December 30, 2007, 12:57:03 PM

The muzzle loader that they have isn't all that bad to be honest. But that's another story. As far as any of the other manufactures like TC I wouldn't worry about them going anywhere. I would expect Rem to move overseas before Marlin.

You are welcome to your opinion. When looking for a new muzzle loader with a friend last fall it didn't take long to choose the NEF version. It seemed to us to be much better made, and was made here in the good old USA. It made meat twice this fall.

Swampman · « **Reply #29 on:** December 30, 2007, 02:41:52 PM »

CVA, Traditions, Winchester, and the newer Remington muzzleloaders are all made by the same Spanish company.

Remington makes the finest firearms you can buy IMO. This isn't gonna hurt Marlin/NEF a bit.