Author Topic: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?  (Read 2372 times)

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Offline Drilling Man

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What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« on: December 27, 2007, 04:32:01 AM »
  Is this good for Rem?  How about Marlin??

Offline NYH1

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2007, 06:51:33 AM »
  Is this good for Rem?  How about Marlin??

I don't know.  Remington has already been importing some of their firearms.  Under Cerberus, the investment group that owns Remington and Bushmaster and buys companies to make as much money as they can at all costs, I believe we're going to see a lot more importing.  I'm not talking about importing firearms from Japan like Browning does with some of their models.  I mean importing firearms from third world counties like Remington is doing with Serbia. 

It's my understanding that Browning doesn't manufacture to many firearms, instead they design and market them.  Browning doesn't have their firearms manufactured in Japan to save money.  I believe Browning does it because the company that manufactures firearms for them makes quality products.  It's also my understanding and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, that the Japanese workers make fairly decent wages and benefits.  And companies don't save that much money if any at all by having products manufactured in Japan and then imported into the US.  At least not like they used to thirty and forty years ago. 

Remington has already set a trend, and I think it will only get worst under the ownership of Cerberus.  I hope I'm wrong, I really do.  There is another model 700 or two that I want to get, just can't swing it right now.  I've always liked Marlin, I have a 336CS 35 Rem. that I love.  I really hope Cerberus doesn't slice these three firearms companies up.  I prefer Remington's 700 over Browning's A Bolt (don't know about their new X Bolt), but I'll buy a Browning manufactured in Japan before I'll buy a Remington made in some third world country.         
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Offline Hairtrigger

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2007, 07:22:13 AM »
I don't like the path Remington has taken lately (importing guns).
Perhaps one large company can operate more efficiently than 2

Offline NYH1

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2007, 07:34:31 AM »
I don't like the path Remington has taken lately (importing guns).
Perhaps one large company can operate more efficiently than 2

Don't forget about Bushmaster, Cerberus owns them too.  Notice the AR's on Remington's web site.  Remington isn't making them.
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Offline m1aman

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2007, 01:54:18 PM »
i fear rem will muck up marlins offerings. wont leave well enough alone.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2007, 06:59:14 PM »
It makes me real uneasy and not for any of the reasons mentioned. This Cerberus outfit was I believe started by a stauchly anti gun person and might STILL be run by such. They are buying up way too many gun companies it seems to me. Same with S&W and TC. Of the decent size gun companies that really only leaves Ruger not bought up by some larger conglomerate at this time.

That makes me real uneasy as it would be so easy for some super rich anti to buy it all in one fell swope and remove all US gun manufacture over night. I just don't like it even a little.


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Offline jvs

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2007, 08:46:51 PM »
Is everyone supposing that Marlin is on the auction block? Or is it a fact that Marlin is being bought out?

I haven't heard anything about this takeover so far.

Remington can't buy anything.  Remington doesn't exist as Remington Inc. Cerberus just assumed all of Remington's debt involved in the gun business and I doubt Cerberus is looking for more debt right now.  Even though Cerberus can buy Marlin and add it to their list of conquests, Cerberus doesn't have a very good reputation on Wall Street and it is unlikely they would go after another Gun.  But who knows.

My biggest worry about Remington would be that Cerberus would pick it apart and sell the smoldering ashes.  As for Marlin, Marlin wouldn't do any worse by standing alone for now.  If Marlin has to sell, then hopefully S&W/T-C would be in the picture, instead of Cerberus or Mossberg/Savage.

I have not heard anything about the head of Cerberus being anti-gun.  While there are some powerful company execs that would like to get their hands on gun companies in order to put them permanently out of business, I don't think the top of Cerberus is one of them.  Keep in mind that Cerberus is marketing the Bushmaster with the Remington name on it.  A step at market making that doesn't match the anti-gun scenario.  Cerberus is a performance based capital management group and the bottom line is what will decide what goes and what stays.
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Offline m1aman

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2007, 05:25:05 AM »
i heard on patriot radio yesterday that remington has reached an agreement to buy marlin. that is basically all that was said so i don't know anymore than that.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2007, 05:44:25 AM »
It is Remington NOT Cerberus that is buying Marlin/NEF/H&R. It is a done deal minus the necessary approvals of government for such buy outs which is really a mere formality. If you'll look around there are numerous threads on this matter with the links to the various news announcements.

Cerberus is staying quiet and while yes that is the source of the funds in reality they are doing it thru Remington which still exists as a corporate entity under the over all umbrella of the Congomerate Cerberus.

I'm not totally sure of the anti gun connection but some of the information has indicated the man who started Cerberus initially was a strongly antigun person. I doubt those ties have been completely severed yet. What better guise for a heavily backed antigun group to operate under than to buy the various gun makers one at a time and to continue to pretend to innovate and market items until all are bought up at which time you just fold them and walk away.

I sure hope I'm wrong and I know I'm the eternal pessimist but life has taught me that most of the world really does not want US Citizens owning guns. Call it a conspriacy or whatever you wish but there is a truly massive effort underway involving the UN and most of the major economic nations of the world, the news media, holliweird, the entire dumocrab party and many many politicians at all levelsl of all parties to make guns go away.

Look at what's happened already in CA which seems to be the bellweather state and what happens there seems to have a way of trickling down to the rest of us. They already have a ten day waiting period even on long guns, scads of guns are outlawed there, they have the microstamping law in place, they are banning the use of lead for hunting in a wide area of the state, one of their two major cities has outlawed handguns. It just keeps on and on and is spreading nationwide.

There are several multibillionaires who are part and parcel of the antigun movement openly and who knows how many are behind it we don't know about. How many super rich folks do you know who are openly PRO gun?

It just bothers me greatly that the current trend is for so many American gun makers to be owned by so few corporate entities. While I realize that over all this is a trend in American business in general I'm aware of no other industry in which it is moving at such a rapid pace as in the firearms industry. I just don't see these mergers under a few conglomerates as a positive thing for the future of firearms. I think short term they will make it look good but then the hammer will fall. Call me a pessimist I plead guilty.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline The Gamemaster

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2007, 06:00:26 AM »
Marlin makes a great product.

You never hear of anyone ever complaining about their fit, finish or quality.

Remington has the exact opposite reputation.

In a corporate world where it is dog eat dog.  Either you get bigger and take over the smaller companies or you get eaten by someone else.

I just love those liberals that do not want hunting and shooting to continue - until the deer and animals gets into their yards and damages their property's.  Then it is shoot everything in site and get rid of them.  When you take guns away from honest law abiding citizens and let them into the hands of the criminals, what kind of society do you think that you will have left - when they attack you and rob you at gun point.

Take away the guns and they will use knifes.  Take away the knives and you will have sticks and stones and clubs.  How then are you going to take away their weapons - when they just come up with something else.

Pray to god that Remington doesn't just buy it and close it and take the equipment and tooling and move it somewhere else.

Japanese labor is some of the best in the world, they have to make $50 an hour just to live.  The housing situation and the food - all having to be brought in because of the size of their population makes it very expensive to live there.  There will never again be another HONDA CIVIC being made in Japan being competitive against a car made by hillbillies in Kentucky or Ohio, Tennessee or West Virginia.

Them people will work for $10 an hour and a bowl of Co Co puffs and be damn glad to get it.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2007, 06:39:19 AM »
Quote
You never hear of anyone ever complaining about their fit, finish or quality.

Remington has the exact opposite reputation.

Actually I see a lot of complaints about Marlin fit, finish and quality in posts on the internet. Enough so in fact that folks speak of the "Marlin Jam" as if it's the most common thing going and with the straight wall pistol cartridge guns I've experienced at least there is some basis for that. It's easily enough fixed but too often does need fixing. I've heard many others but that's the most common complaint I think.

Remington on the other hand does get a good deal of criticism much of which from my own experience seems more based on internet theory than fact. I've likely owned as many Remington long guns as anyone around here and far more than most and quite honestly I just have not and do not see the problems so many internet posters claim to see. Either I'm the world's luckiest Remington owner or someone is making up stories. Hint on my luck: I've won a grand total of ONE THING in my entire life so me thinks maybe I'm not so lucky.

I see both companies as making good quality firearms of different types and in my experience both have good customer service. I don't see one as necessarily having an edge on the other in either category.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2007, 06:50:14 AM »
wasn't good for Parker !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline quickdtoo

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2007, 06:56:27 AM »
Is everyone supposing that Marlin is on the auction block? Or is it a fact that Marlin is being bought out?

I haven't heard anything about this takeover so far.


Just to bring ya up to speed....

Tim

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/industries/finance/article/remington-acquire-marlin-firearms_418888_9.html

http://www.fool.com/investing/high-growth/2007/12/28/remington-outdraws-the-competition.aspx
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Offline victorcharlie

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2007, 08:29:36 AM »
Well, if you can't beat em......then buy em....
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
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Offline NYH1

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2007, 08:49:05 AM »
I think both companies make great products.  I hope it stays that way too.  The Remington model 700 is my favorite bolt action rifle, probably my favorite rifle over all.  The Marlin 336 is my favorite lever action rifle currently being produced.  I say that because I really like my Winchester model 88.  I really hope this acquisition works. 

Ask anyone who's ever worked in manufacturing, they'll tell you no matter how hard you try, mistakes happen.  I don't judge a company on a mistake.  I judge them on what they do after a customer bring a mistake to their attention.  Remington's customer service did good by me the one time I had to use it.  I've never used Marlin's customer service.  I did talk to them on the phone once about having them do something for me and was impressed. ;)
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Offline Bullseye

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2007, 11:23:31 AM »
As far as the quality issue, I have bought some Marlins and Remingtons in the last couple of years and looked at many others.  I had a 41 Mag Marlin a couple of years ago that was a Jamomatic.  Have bought another since then that was fine.  Looked at a high dollar XLR a few months ago and could not believe the bad fit and finsh on the wood around the tang.  It looked like someone filed it out with a rasp and then left it rough, and that was a high dollar gun.  The wood on some of the Marlins is awful rough these days, but the Remington 7600 I bought last summer had a wonderful piece of wood on it. Recently bought a 11-87 that has great wood on it, so Remington knows where to get better walnut for sure.  Looked at a stainless 44 Mag Marlin a few weeks ago that had just came into the shop and the lever would not come back up to the stock without fiddling and forcing it.  I guess what I am trying to say is that in my experience I have never seen the quality issues with Remington, but I sure have with Marlin.  I still like the Marlins, just bought a Guide Gun today, but I looked at a lot of them to find one with some decent looking wood.

As far as all these companies buying each other, I am not sure that is a good thing.  With all these companies under one ownership, if they get into financial trouble there is a much bigger risk of losing more companies.  If Remington goes bankrupt for some reason, now so does Marlin and H&R.  If S&W gets in trouble, so now does T/C.  I also worry about there being less competition which could lead to higher prices.  Unfortunately, this seems to be the way of corporate america.  Sometimes it works, and sometimes it does not.  In this case I hope Marlin benefits in quality, based on my opinion from what I see of the two companies.

Offline AkMike1

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2007, 12:36:15 PM »
Here's a listing of the holdings of this MEGA corporation.

 Notable acquisitions
Pharmaceuticals - In December 2004, the company announced the acquisition of Bayer's plasma products business and renamed it Talecris Biotherapeutics.

Paper products - The company acquired MeadWestvaco's paper business for $2.3B in 2005 and renamed it NewPage Corporation. Cerberus also purchased, from Georgia Pacific Corporation, its Distribution Division/Building Products and all of its associated real estate. It renamed this new company BlueLinx Holdings, based in Atlanta.

Government Services (Military, Energy, and Food & Drug) - owns IAP Worldwide Services, which bought Johnson Controls' World Services division in February 2005, and Netco Government Services.

Real Estate - Through investment affiliate Blackacre Capital, the company has been making direct equity, mezzanine, first mortgage, distressed and special situation investments in all asset types. It also controls Miami Beach.-based LNR Property, a large real estate development and investment firm through subsidiary Riley Property. Cerberus also controls Kyo-ya, a Japan based group of entities that owns several Starwood managed assets in California, Hawaii and Florida.

Retail - Cerberus purchased 655 of the 2,500 Albertson's, Inc., grocery stores, forming Albertsons LLC of Boise, Idaho, in June of 2006. They also own Mervyn's department stores, which was acquired from Target Corp. In June 2007, Cerberus acquired Torex Retail Plc., a retail solutions provider in troubled waters, for approximately 400 million US dollars.[4]

Transportation - Acquired bankrupt ANC Rental, owner of the National and Alamo car rental chains, for $230 million in October 2003 and purchased DaimlerChrysler's 45% share of debis AerFinance, an aircraft leasing business, in May 2005. Complete acquisition of debis AirFinance (later renamed AerCap) was concluded in July 2005. Also acquired North American Bus Industries, Optima Bus Corporation, and Blue Bird Corp. in the bus manufacturing sector. Also owns ACE Aviation Holdings, parent of Air Canada.

Construction - Announced on July 23, 2007, Cerberus agreed to acquire United Rentals, Inc., North America's largest equipment rental service. The transaction was valued at $6.6 billion, including the assumption of approximately $2.6 billion in debt obligations.

Automotive - Peguform, GDX, and Chrysler.

Financial Services - General Motors sold a 51% stake in its GMAC finance unit to an investor group led by Cerberus Capital Management. GM expects to receive $14 billion over the next three years from the sale of General Motors Acceptance Corp. In December 2006, Cerberus acquired the Austrian bank BAWAG P.S.K. for a reported EUR3.2 billion. In April 2007, Cerberus announced it intention to acquire Option One Mortgage Corp from H&R Block for about $1 billion. That acquisition is still pending. In August of 2007, Cerberus announced that it was closing one of their mortgage companies, Aegis Mortgage.

Firearms - Acquired Bushmaster Firearms, Inc., from Windham, Maine native **** Dyke for an undisclosed sum in April 2006, and purchased Remington Arms in April 2007. Under Cerberus direction, Bushmaster Firearms acquired Cobb Manufacturing, a well-respected manufacturer of large-caliber tactical rifles in August 2007. Cerberus also announced the acquisition of DPMS Panther Arms in December 2007.[5]

Entertainment - To acquire 6 television stations owned and operated by CBS Corporation, pending FCC approval. The station group is called Four Points Media Group. As of September 1, 2007, the 6 stations are no longer listed on the CBS Television Station website.[6] By the end of September 2007, all of the stations have launched new websites. Although CBS still holds the stations' licenses for the time being, Cerberus/Four Points took over control of the stations through time brokerage agreements.
Other holdings of the investment group include Formica, Inc., and the Aozora Bank in Japan; U.S. tech firm SSA Global Technologies, and cable operator Galaxy Cable. In July 2007, the company announced that in had reached an agreement to acquire United Rentals.
________
AkMike

Offline quickdtoo

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Offline 30-30man

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2007, 02:33:49 PM »
Say it isn't so!!!!!!

The BAD: The first thing that will happen is Marlin's offerings will be cheapened and outsourced. The price on 336's will go up $100 just for the Remington stamp. The 336 will be made from stamped parts now.  We'll have 336's made by SPARTAN from who knows where.  They'll change the 336 design so it's a complete pile of crapola and then discontinue it.  Then they'll introduce a new and improved model called the 337 and the only thing that will be different is the stocks.

The Good:  We will have pre-Remington 336's now. (More$)  Remington will finally put their 597 in the garbage dump where it belongs and just stick with Marlin's designs.

 What ever happens, I hate it.  Marlin has an outstanding reputation for accuracy, and quality in my opinion.  That will change I'm afraid if left to the pencil pushers at Remignton.

Offline jvs

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2007, 04:13:40 PM »
Right now I am not overly concerned about Marlin being bought out.  While it does bother me a little bit that a USA manufacturer will be involved with an outfit like Cerberus, it is still  possible that Remington will come out of this in the future independently, with Marlin in tow.  Capital Management Companies make money by buying stressed companies, turning them around and selling them again for a profit.  Not puttng them out of business and taking a loss. 

Businesses like Cerberus only worry about MONEY.  Not guns, not Airlines, not much of anything else but the botom line.  While Cerberus may use multiple ways of getting money, I don't believe politics makes much difference.

What may be of concern is that, like any big business, Cerberus will base performance against what it did last year...etc, which may mean you need to buy one gun this year, two next year and three the following year, just to make sure Cerberus likes what it sees.  If your income was always built against what you earned last year, you'd be rich, just like the big boys.

As long as you have fewer and fewer youngsters getting into the legal ownership of firearms, the danger grows as to how long it will be before the anti's and the enviornmentalists win.  Right not it doesn't look too good.  The Media and the Schools are poisoning the kids.

     
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2007, 06:56:08 PM »
If they keep this foolishness up Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises may just have to buy Cerberus to put an end to it and make sure the gun companies are in good hands.  ;D


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Offline nomosendero

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2007, 07:08:26 PM »
If they keep this foolishness up Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises may just have to buy Cerberus to put an end to it and make sure the gun companies are in good hands.  ;D

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Offline nomosendero

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2007, 07:11:17 PM »
I understand that Cerberus has bought DPMS also. I have heard that through the technical expertise of Bushmaster/DPMS folks they will be going after the Military market with a vengeance!
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Offline 30-06man

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2007, 07:23:35 PM »
I got a very bad feeling about this.  :-\ :'(
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

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Offline AkMike1

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2007, 07:28:28 PM »
If they keep this foolishness up Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises may just have to buy Cerberus to put an end to it and make sure the gun companies are in good hands.  ;D

If you do that you'll need to move the world wide headquarters to the outer fringes of the coldest part of Siberia. Right next door to Baikal.
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Offline 30-06man

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2007, 07:33:06 PM »
If they keep this foolishness up Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises may just have to buy Cerberus to put an end to it and make sure the gun companies are in good hands.  ;D

If you do that you'll need to move the world wide headquarters to the outer fringes of the coldest part of Siberia. Right next door to Baikal.


NO!! CHINA!! OR MEXICO!! yup junk guns for a premium.
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Offline AkMike1

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2007, 08:28:21 PM »
At least in Siberia the hunting should be good and very slight chance of sunburn! :D
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Offline jvs

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2007, 11:11:40 PM »
If I wanted to sell less Bushmasters so I could eventually put Bushmasters out of business, I wouldn't come out with a Remington based on the same gun.  (and if it weren't for a MSRP that is a little high compared to others, STAG for instance, I would be in the market for one of these)

And now that it appears that Remington bought Marlin, doesn't the news a few weeks back make more sense?  Marlin coming out with another bolt action?   In the end those guns might be REMLINS or MARLINGTONS, but they should sell with the Marlin name on it, as long as they aren't imports. What happened when S&W went into British hands should be a warning to anyone who thinks imports or political foreign ownership can survive in the AMERICAN gun business.   

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what the UN, the Brits, the Queen, the French or anyone else thinks.  Believe me, when any foreigner needs American help, they'll come running with their lips first, just like they did for WWII.   They need Americans more than we need them for anyithing, including their opinions.

*****

If anything, the Marlin Model 60 might take a dive (about time too), and shotguns might start looking alike.  Look for consolidation on the shop floor and offices to strip away the redundant operations.

If Cerberus ever goes public, which I doubt, I would be buying some shares.  While it does no harm to be wary when stuff like this happens, right now I see no proof that Cerberus is doing anything but trying to make money.
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Offline Cookiemann

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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2007, 03:35:44 AM »
Quote
As long as you have fewer and fewer youngsters getting into the legal ownership of firearms, the danger grows as to how long it will be before the anti's and the enviornmentalists win.  Right not it doesn't look too good.  The Media and the Schools are poisoning the kids

The only way to prevent this from happening is by staying in touch with what's being taught in our schools and by staying involved with our kids.  They are our future and the future of this country. 

I served in the USAF from 74-78.  I never saw any action and never even left the state for a tour of duty.  I used to feel I got "short-changed" because I never got MY WAR.  My chance to prove myself.  That all changed when my grandsons were born.  I realized that my war is NOW, making sure they aren't lost to the anti-American, anti-gun liberals who are out to destroy, re-distibute and manipulate our freedoms and American way of life.  It takes more than a contribution to the NRA a couple times a year.  We need to be involved and vigilant, every day.  Just my $.02

cookiemann
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Re: What Do You Think About Rem Buying Marlin?
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2007, 05:42:17 AM »
If I wanted to sell less Bushmasters so I could eventually put Bushmasters out of business, I wouldn't come out with a Remington based on the same gun.  (and if it weren't for a MSRP that is a little high compared to others, STAG for instance, I would be in the market for one of these)

And now that it appears that Remington bought Marlin, doesn't the news a few weeks back make more sense?  Marlin coming out with another bolt action?   In the end those guns might be REMLINS or MARLINGTONS, but they should sell with the Marlin name on it, as long as they aren't imports. What happened when S&W went into British hands should be a warning to anyone who thinks imports or political foreign ownership can survive in the AMERICAN gun business.   

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what the UN, the Brits, the Queen, the French or anyone else thinks.  Believe me, when any foreigner needs American help, they'll come running with their lips first, just like they did for WWII.   They need Americans more than we need them for anyithing, including their opinions.

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If anything, the Marlin Model 60 might take a dive (about time too), and shotguns might start looking alike.  Look for consolidation on the shop floor and offices to strip away the redundant operations.

If Cerberus ever goes public, which I doubt, I would be buying some shares.  While it does no harm to be wary when stuff like this happens, right now I see no proof that Cerberus is doing anything but trying to make money.

The new marlin looks just like a savage. The trigger is just like the accutrigger. I think they are having someone make it for them like savage.
The sportsman lives his life vicariously. For he secretly yearns to have lived before, in a simpler time. A time when his love for the land, water, fish and wildlife would be more than just part of his life. It would be his state of mind

Rick