Author Topic: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle  (Read 1254 times)

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Offline DSI

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Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« on: December 28, 2007, 05:01:32 PM »
i am looking to get a new H&R, and want something slightly different in a smaller caliber. i am wondering what you guys think would be the best over choice, considering price to shoot, and shooting accuracy. i am thinking like maybe a .17 Mach 2, or a .17 HMR, or a .22 hornet, or?? give me some ideas and why. thanks in advance for any help.

Offline SM Bob

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Re: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2007, 09:20:15 PM »
DSI,
I have rifles in all 3 calibers you mention. 2 H&R's. 1 in 17 HMR Sportster
 and the other in 22 Hornet.I have a Marlin 917 M2 in 17 Mach 2.  I like
all 3 calibers. Here is my opinion of the 3:

17 HMR 
I have 6-24X42mm Tasco scope on my H&R 17 HMR Sportster. I get groups just over an
inch at 100 yards on a calm day. At 50 yards I get a group that I can cover with a dime.
Pretty fun to shoot. Ammo is getting pretty expensive for this rifle. I won't be shooting it
as much as I would like to because of this. All in all a pretty decent rifle. Wind really effects
this round!

17 Mach 2
My Marlin is a bolt action bull barrel with the same Tasco scope as my 17 HMR  H&R. This rifle
is a bit more accurate than my 17 HMR H&R. Groups run a little under an inch at 100 and 1
ragged hole at 50 yards. This is a great round in my opinion! Less than 1/2 the cost of the
17 HMR and quite similar in performance out to 100 yards. It is funny how small this round is,
but it gets the job done nicely. I definitely want to get a 17 Mach 2 barrel for my H&R Sportster.
As with the 17 HMR wind really effect this little 17 grain bullet.

22 Hornet
My Hornet has a Bushnell 4-12X40mm Banner A.O. scope. It is with out a doubt my 1000%
hands down favorite of the 3. From the very first shot I fired with this rifle I was hooked!
It will shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards. This round can be loaded for cheap and it has way
more punch than the other 2. I only use 12 grains of Lil' Gun and a Sierra 45 grain Hornet
Varminter bullet. I can load over 500 rounds with a pound of powder. Out to 150 yards
I hit what I aim at with this rifle. If I fire 30 rounds as fast as I can load them the barrel
only gets lukewarm! Wind doesn't seem to effect this round nearly as much. I have only
been shooting the Hornet for a couple of months. I should have got one of these a long
time ago. It is definitely my go to varmint rifle. In my opinion you must reload for the Hornet.
Factory ammo for the Hornet is nothing short of highway robbery in my opinion. Sadly it is
only going to get worse after the first of the year when ammo prices are expected go up.
Even if you were to use a Lee Hand Press you could easily load for this round. If you do
you could end up paying less than 1/2 of what you would pay for factory ammo. 

                                Robert

Offline DSI

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Re: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2007, 03:59:34 AM »
hey thanks for all the great info! sounds like all three would be a good choice in there own way. i like the fact that the Mach 2 is cheap to shoot. but a hornet would be different. i will have to ponder on it, thanks again for the advice.

Offline EVOC ONE

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Re: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2007, 12:57:07 AM »
SM Bob:  That was a very good report.  Detailed and informative.  Thanks.    :)

Offline bscman

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Re: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2007, 07:19:40 AM »
What do you plan to use it for?

I got all caught up in the HMR/HM2 craze when they were first released. I have a nice marlin, heavy barreled bolt gun in 17HMR....great shooting rifle. With a little trigger work, it can shoot sub 1" at 100yds any day there isn't much wind--and that's with a 4x-12x scope. A great round for target work! A little expensive for the rimfire world, though. As mentioned, out to 100yds on paper the HM2 is almost half the price and every bit as good.

For hunting...
I can't comment on the HM2, but I can tell you the HMR was a big let down. I bought this round because there was a lot of hype (even from the ammo manufacturers) that this round was good up to coyote size game out to about 100yds....and a great round out to 175ish on smaller stuff (ground squirrels, P-dogs, etc).

Truth be told...not so much. (Remember, this is just my experience/opinion).

NOT a good round for coyote size game...I wouldn't consider it on bobcat or coon size game beyond about 75yds. The bullet is just too tiny for the larger "small game." Light weight means penetration is going to suffer, it doesn't fair well against bones, and the tiny .17 bullet leaves a pretty small wound channel when things don't work out like they should.
Soft points and FMJ's are pretty much pointless beyond paper punching and the tinyest of critters...they just don't do enough damage on any of the larger stuff. Penetration doesn't mean much with a tiny wound channel.

I love my HMR, don't get me wrong. It's one of my paper punching favorites...and it's GREAT around the farm taking out crows, barn pigeons, rats, and the occasional mole. I've also used it to dispatch wounded barn cats a time or two. I will NEVER take it in the field if I plan on hunting anything over 10-12lbs....and that rules out almost everything in N/W Washington state. If you're looking for a ground squirrel/p-dog rifle, this might be what you're looking for!

The best thing about the .17 rimfire craze, IMHO, was the kick in the pants to ammo manufacturers to create better ammunition for .22mag fans. Years ago, the .22mag was pretty much a .22lr with more powder--that is, a lot of soft lead (non jacketed) bullets in the 40grain class for weight. Not the most accurate stuff out there...I think this is why the .22mag never created a huge following.

Now, we've got TNT and VMAX copper jacketed (even TOTAL metal jacket-TMJ's) for the .22mag...the .22mag has exceeded 2,200fps.
With the higher quality ammunition, many of our old rifles are able to shoot at/better than MOA out to 100yds. This QUALITY ammunition has put the .22mag ahead of the HMR in my book.
Larger bullet diameter and more weight--better penetration, larger wound channel, and more energy at longer distances.

The .22mag is now my favorite bobcat round. Very little chance of pelt damage, and I feel quite confident out to about 125yds. I've seen what this stuff does to a cat, and I'm a LOT more impressed than the HMR. In my area, shots are usually under 100yds.
And while I'm not one to advocate shooting coyote size game with rimfires...I wouldn't pass up good/clean a shot within 75yds with my .22mag--Mind you, I would NEVER walk out the door with the .22mag knowing I was looking for 'yotes....I'd much prefer a 22cal. CENERFIRE.

The long and short...
HMR is lazer flat and very accurate...great for paper and pests.
The .22mag has come a LONG ways, and beats the HMR in my book for field use--better choice for hunting small game.
The .22hornet is great...but the brass can be a bit of a PITA to reload, and for the noise the hornet makes, I'd just as soon carry my .223 for a little more power (and cheaper factory ammo when I'm lazy/away from my reloading equipment).
I LOVE my contender in .218 Bee!

Offline SM Bob

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Re: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2008, 03:28:14 PM »


The .22hornet is great...but the brass can be a bit of a PITA to reload,

bscman,
I'm not sure what what you mean by this. I have loaded over 600 rounds of
22 Hornet ammo and have found it no more of a PITA than any other center
fire rifle round. The only time that I had issues was when I loaded some Hornady
35 gr V-Max bullets. They have a tendency to become cocked in my seating
die if I didn't pay close attention to what I was doing. It didn't matter much
anyway because I never got very good accuracy with them. Once I switched
over to the Sierra 45 gr Varminter Hornet bullets it was no different than 223
or any other round. The Hornet continues to impress me. It is so cool to have
cartridge that can do the things it does while only using 12 grains of powder.
I loaded up 100 rounds a couple of days ago using my Lee hand press in no
time flat. I agree with you on the 17HMR. I wouldn't use it on coyote sized
game either.  I would rather use my 22 mag too. You put a 40 gr jhp from
a 22 Mag into the boiler room of a bobcat or a coyote out to 100 yards and
it's game over.

                                        Robert

 

Offline bscman

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Re: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2008, 06:21:49 PM »


The .22hornet is great...but the brass can be a bit of a PITA to reload,

bscman,
I'm not sure what what you mean by this. I have loaded over 600 rounds of
22 Hornet ammo and have found it no more of a PITA than any other center
fire rifle round. 

Thin brass/issues seating bullets was the major thing.
I'll admit 22hornet isn't a round I've reloaded a lot of...but I had a few crumple.
I traded my 22hornet barrel off for a 218bee only a few months after I acquired it (t/c contender)--this was quite some time ago.
;)
If I had to choose between the two, I'd choose the Bee every time...but there is a handi that keeps staring back at me at a local shop...I'm afraid it might follow me home one day.............

Offline PHATINJUN

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Re: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2008, 05:28:01 AM »
BSCMAN don't be afraid go towards the Handi.Kurt
Deceased 2/16/24
https://www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/machesney-park-il/kurt-heckman-11671764

Sportster17M2,20"Nickle410Tamer,26"410,
WTUTI12ga,WTU25-06,M158 22RemJet, 24"Ultra.204Ruger24"UltraFluted.204Ruger
M157Mannliker.22Hornet,24".223UltraFluted,   24".223Ultra,7X64BrenekkeUltra,22-250AIUltraFluted            7.62x39,22"303Britstub.32H&Rmag, .32303BritstubHuntsman,24" SS.50calHuntsman 58calHuntsman 12gaHuntsman
NEF RevolversSSModel73.32H&Rmag                     Blued Model73.32H&R mag The herd is shrinking!!
                                 "SOLI DEO GLORIA"

Offline SM Bob

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Re: Opinions on new small cal. Handi-rifle
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 10:49:05 PM »
BSCMAN don't be afraid go towards the Handi.Kurt

Yea that!
 
BSCMAN
Don't be afraid of the Handi Hornet. Get one and a set of Lee Deluxe 22 Hornet dies,
a Lee 22 Hornet Factory Crimp Die, and you are good to go! If You use the Sierra
Hornet Varminter 40gr & 45gr bullets you can forget about crumpled cases. They
seat with the greatest of ease, and they are deadly accurate in my Handi Hornet!
I would bet they would work well in your 218 Bee also.
The neck sizing die will make your Hornet brass last a good long time as well.
I hear what you are saying about the 223. I have a 223 Handi Bull Barrel and
I love it! I also love my Hornet. Both of them would be bad news for small game
out to 150 yards and beyond for the 223. Of course the 223 has more power
than the Hornet, but I'm partial to the Hornet for the kind of shooting that
I do.

                                Robert