Large Meplat vs. SWC Bullet ?

[Bob96]

  I just received some Grizzly 44spl. loads with a 260gr. hard cast bullet that has a very large meplat front surface. I also have some Buffalo Bore loads in 44spl. that have a 255gr. hard cast SWC. The initial front surface of the Giizzly is larger than the Buffalo Bore but their SWC has a full dia. at case mouth. Is there any advantage of either type in actual use?

[44 Man]

Bob, both of those bullets sound impressive!  I have always been told that the flat on the nose is what makes the bullet an efficient killer.  SWC are efficient hunting bullets and the shoulder on the SWC bullets make nice, clean cut holes on paper targets.  These are favored for any type of competition shooting where group sizes are important because they are easier to measure.  I have some big meplat .44 special bullets I have used in the past and I have to tell you that big, flat nose just stomps anything it hits.  Both would be excellent hunting bullets.  44 Man

[canon6]

In theory the semi wad cutter SHOULD penetrate deeper,BUT, the large meplat seems to transfer energy to the target faster.Now that I have said that I went away from semi wad cutters as soon as large meplats became available.I want a combination of energy transfer and penetration   hth   Doug

[COR]

Here's what my observations have been.  My .44 260gr WFN has close to the same meplat as my .45 270SAA (280gr swc design) and .45 300gr LFN, I didn't measure but they appear very close to the same.  Pushed between 1000 and 1200fps all the deer seem to react more to where I place it than which bullet,  a shoulder shot puts them right down whereas a boilermaker or lung shot will allow them to run 30-60yds.   In all cases I never recovered a bullet even on the shoulder impact shots. That has been my experience with them.  I say flip a coin on the two loads you mentioned if both are accurate, you'll be well armed.

[jhalcott]

  From what I've seen and heard,(now don't take this as gospel) the NOSE of the semi wadcutter does all the work. The shoulder just goes along for the ride.While a large meplat has MORE "wallop" to it. I have no true idea if this is right or wrong,but I've seen films of semi's hitting expansion material and the shoulder is seen in the opening hole Untouched by the material. When the large meplat bullet is fired into the same medium, it creates a larger "wound channel". I've used both styles of bullet in .44 and .45 caliber guns with great results. That is DEAD ANIMALS after the shot.  I value accuracy over most other things when hunting any way!

[Mikey]

I've used both a 295 gn SWC and a 300 gn WFN slug in the 44 mag on large game and prefer the the SWC.  It loads more rapidly into my revolver and is more accurate.

I firmly consider the WFN slugs to be very, very effective but I can't tell the difference between those and the SWC on game.  I agree with COR that placement is what matters most and it matters little what the shape of the bullet is.  Lung shot animals can go a looooong way.  Gut shot animals may never be found and subsequently lost.  Shoulder shot animals tend to stay put. Period.  Regardless of bullet style (SWC, WFN, RNFP). 

I always felt penetration of the SWC (and I haven't recovered any yet) was due to the metplat on the SWC (smaller diameter pushed by a larger diameter aids in depth of penetration) and in conjunction the sharp full bore shoulder cuts through with a full sized hole that bleeds the animal out quickly.  The WFN design has a great metplat but requires a bit of ogive to make the bullet aerodynamic (I think due to needs to maintain an effective overall bullet length) but that ogive (I also believe) costs the bullet some of the 'impact-tivity' or impactability of the bullet.  The SWC cuts a nice square hole - the WFN acts more like a RNFP - which although very effective seems to leave a smaller hole that may close up faster. 

Any way you look at it, the same weight SWC, WFN or RNFP 44 caliber slug, at the same velocity, is gonna whop the snot out of whatever you shoot with it if you place the bullet right.  JMTCW.  Mikey.

[Bob96]

  In theory wouldn't a Full WC bullet deliver the greatest shock power to the target?   Wind drag would slow it down quicker of course. It would blast a full caliber hole for as far as velocity allowed.

[Jerry Lester]

  In theory wouldn't a Full WC bullet deliver the greatest shock power to the target?   Wind drag would slow it down quicker of course. It would blast a full caliber hole for as far as velocity allowed.

Trust me, a full WC bullet definitely delivers the best "thump" of any bullet on impact. I've popped quite a bit of small to medium critters with .357" caliber WC's, and there's a very noticable increase in 'impact-tivity' or impactability(to quote Mikey LOL!) with them.

[Lloyd Smale]

mikey kind of hit on this but every bullet is differnt and has certian advantages. For the most part though especially on thin skinned deer sized game the important thing is hitting them in the right spot. A wad cutter cast out of a proper alloy can make a real good short ranged hunting bullet. Personaly ive shot game with just about every bullet design and its hard to tell you that one hits harder then the other. Every deer reacts differntly to being hit by a bullet. Ive seen lung shot deer drop on the spot and deer with there hearts blown to mush make over a 100 yards. If you dont mind limiting your range to a 50 yards a wad cutter is fine. LImit it to a 100 and a wfn is fine. My prolblem is i dont just use my sixguns for hunting. Its actually a small part of what there used for. Mostly its for recreational shooting and part of that to me is long range shooting. I dont have time to bother to work up seperate loads for hunting and for shooting so i need a bullet that is a compromise. One that hits game with athourity and still will fly out far for playing. thats why for the most part i stick with lfns and swcs.

[terry]

 I have Grizzly 260gr 44sp loads they look wicked big flat surface and shot very well. I have been eyeing the buffalo bore 255gr load also because of more FPS but was wondering if they are`using a hard cast bullet in these or what? I have emailed them twice they never email me back with anwsers to my questions? I would like to know alittle more about the bullet used in this load myself.

[Lloyd Smale]

grizzly ammo company and cast performance bullets are owned by the same guy. cast perfomace waterdrops all of there bullets so these bullets would be real hard. What your probably dealing with is an alloy close to ww in composition water dropped so id guess the hardness of them is around 25bhn.

[terry]

 The cast performance bullets are very hard and I have used them in 180gr/187gr 357cal for many years killing more pigs and deer than I can count. Most critters run about 50 yards and pile up a few have droped in their tracks with my 357mag handloads around 1100FPS. Does anyone know any info on the 44cal 255gr SWC used in the buffalo bore ammo? Are these hard lead,alloy,gas check?

[jhalcott]

  what I do know is that a round nose bullet shot at ~2000 fps will go thru a gallon plastic bottle with out making much fuss. Cut the nose to a flat of about 65 percent of the bullet diameter and shoot at the SAME bottle. The bottle will explode. I have done this test with 7mm, 30 and 35 caliber. The alloy was a 15bhn Lyman #2 the bullets were gas checked. I HAVE killed deer with the RN's and the same bullets FNed. The "shock" to the animal APPEARED to be MUCH more with the FN's. The guns were TC contenders of various length and several bolt rifles. The .44 and .45 revolvers I have used most often were loaded with SWC's

[doncisler]

can't tell you on flesh but on wet paper and water jugs the big metplant does a lot more damage

[okie john]

A 44-caliber SWC will pound the stuffing out of a deer, even at 900 fps. I've seen it happen many times. Some other design may do it a bit better, but you can find SWC's anywhere, it's easy to make them shoot well, and they're cheap.

I use a handgun about like Lloyd does, so for me a Keith SWC is a very hard choice to beat.


Okie John

[timothy]

I've heard the meplate of a swc cuts a bigger hole upon impact than the shoulder ever has a chance to. Therefore is the popular saying that a swc cuts a full caliber hole a myth? If so its gone on far too long imho.

[Lloyd Smale]

thats a question thats been covered many of time and i dont think anyone really knows the answer. Some say the sholder cuts some same it doesnt. Its about impossible to tell in flesh as every wound channel is different even with the same bullet. My threroy has allways been that it does seem to cut paper so it must cut in some instances. Id about bet it helps when it comes to hitting something like bone. To say it cuts on hide is questionalbe. But then I dont think a wfn cuts a hole the same size as the metplat on hide either. Hide stretches and closes back up when the bullet has passed through no matter what bullet your using. No bullet cuts a hole! To make an honest statement about whether a wfn hits animals harder then a swc with a good meplat would take a truck load of animals to compare and give an accurate statement. You cant judge by how fast there killed as ive seen deer dropped with a .22 lr and have seen deer run off with hits from a 300 weatherby mag.

I've heard the meplate of a swc cuts a bigger hole upon impact than the shoulder ever has a chance to. Therefore is the popular saying that a swc cuts a full caliber hole a myth? If so its gone on far too long imho.

[kgb]

I have VERY little experience here so will just relay the one that might be relevant.  I hit a deer this year with a .41 Speer 200gr HP 3/4 jacket that I imagine didn't expand much if at all and could probably be considered a SWC in design/effect.  The deer quartered toward me and the shot went through the paunch just behind the ribcage, entered the off-side hind leg, broke the leg bone at that point and exited.  From a M657 that round chronographs at 1330fps, range to the deer was just under 45 yards. 

I don't know if a WFN or LFN would have done a better job of making up for the poor marksmanship, the leg was broken there were two holes to leave a good trail to follow.  When I found the doe about 45 mins later she was almost gone and a neck shot ended it.  I'm glad it wasn't a quick-expanding HP round.  I think the penetration that broke the hind leg and exited were the keys to recovering that deer.  That bullet went through a lot of tissue/bone.

To me, shot placement is key.  If I could be sure of an easy shot directly through the ribcage I'd probably use 170gr HP's exclusively. 

[Mikey]

kqb:  ya'll said "I don't know if a WFN or LFN would have done a better job of making up for the poor marksmanship" - Nope, don't think so.  The bullet did its job.  And by the way, a quartering shot is a difficult shot to make so the 'marksmanship' issue may only be an individual one to you. 

Ya'll also said "I think the penetration that broke the hind leg and exited were the keys to recovering that deer". Yes, I firmly believe that to be true.  Any of the cast bullets mentioned should have done the same thing - carried on through the animal and exited through bone.

It is one thing to think you may be fortunate enough to get a classic broadside shot and to use hollowpoints for that purpose, but it is another thing to actually get the chance to make that shot.  Many handgun hunters do not rely on the bullet style (hp, soft nose, etc) to do the job for them as they realize the chances of getting a perfect shot for the type of bullet used to be very rare, which is why many of us prefer a hardcast slug that will not deform or deflect on bone structures.  Many feel those slugs with a broad flat nose, be they swcs or wfn usually perform the job better.  Mikey.