Parrots

[phalanx]

Interesting History on these guns. The Early ones were born out of the need for more firepower,larger charges, heaver projectiles. Some existing tubes were simply banded around the breech ,thus the look ,and they were guns,not rifles.
The true Parrot rifle didn't appear until Early 1862 .Still being of a gray iron ,cast ,and was still called an 1861.
They were the heavy guns for the Army and were also used by the Navy.
The 1861 Ord. Rifle was used more widely at the end of the war ,even being a three inch , advanced production of it took it from iron ,to cast steel.
Making it lighter ,and still rivaling the power of the Parrot.
Both having a three inch bore ,but the OR being 20% lighter.
The 20lb Parrot had a 3.5 in bore ,and was used mostly as an emplacement gun.
Larger Parrots were used by the Navy ,The Monitor had a pair made especially for that ship, with a barrel 12in longer than the standard gun ,with a cast steel chamber band.
The CSS Virginia used 18 ,1841 6 bounders ,neither ships guns were all that effective on their enemy's iron clad armor.
But the men inside said it was like living in Hell.
The Confederacy ,did all it could to try and take a Parrot in tact ,and even made a copy of it of their own.
Both guns were soon to be shadowed by a gun that could act like a Mortar ,and fire like a cannon ,and was half the weight.
The large bore Howitzer , This gun became the favorite of Gen ,Sherman.
It was the first time a Machined steel sleeve ,centered into a cast steel casting ,was tried ,it was successful.
Though lacking range ,it could deliver more explosive than the other two guns and was used on Atlanta.
It also could deliver Grape shot to a larger area ,without the need for a canister for containment.
Making the suicide charges of the past just that ,past.

I didn't mean this to be so long ,It is a short except from a book i have,I thought it was some good reading and i wanted to share it.

[lance]

Interesting History on these guns. The Early ones were born out of the need for more firepower,larger charges, heaver projectiles. Some existing tubes were simply banded around the breech ,thus the look ,and they were guns,not rifles.
The true Parrot rifle didn't appear until Early 1862 .Still being of a gray iron ,cast ,and was still called an 1861.
They were the heavy guns for the Army and were also used by the Navy.
The 1861 Ord. Rifle was used more widely at the end of the war ,even being a three inch , advanced production of it took it from iron ,to cast steel.
Making it lighter ,and still rivaling the power of the Parrot.
Both having a three inch bore ,but the OR being 20% lighter.
The 20lb Parrot had a 3.5 in bore ,and was used mostly as an emplacement gun.
Larger Parrots were used by the Navy ,The Monitor had a pair made especially for that ship, with a barrel 12in longer than the standard gun ,with a cast steel chamber band.
The CSS Virginia used 18 ,1841 6 bounders ,neither ships guns were all that effective on their enemy's iron clad armor.
But the men inside said it was like living in Hell.
The Confederacy ,did all it could to try and take a Parrot in tact ,and even made a copy of it of their own.
Both guns were soon to be shadowed by a gun that could act like a Mortar ,and fire like a cannon ,and was half the weight.
The large bore Howitzer , This gun became the favorite of Gen ,Sherman.
It was the first time a Machined steel sleeve ,centered into a cast steel casting ,was tried ,it was successful.
Though lacking range ,it could deliver more explosive than the other two guns and was used on Atlanta.
It also could deliver Grape shot to a larger area ,without the need for a canister for containment.
Making the suicide charges of the past just that ,past.

I didn't mean this to be so long ,It is a short except from a book i have,I thought it was some good reading and i wanted to share it.

CSS Virginia, 18, 1841 6pd'ers? what book is that? the monitor had 2-11" Dahlgrens, the Virginia had 6-9" Dahlgrens, 2- 6.4" and 2- 7" Brooke.

[phalanx]

The smoke and the fire ,by Thomas Russell ,copyright 1958 . I have another book about that battle ,it shows sketches of the Virgina ,three guns out the fount ,three out the rear ,and four down each side ? The other four were deck mount and were removed later . The model i have of her shows 14 guns made by a master builder in your state.
The Monitor of course only has the two .Now that i don't know ,just what was written in this book ,Like i said ,all i know about Naval is what i read.
 
But the ships are an account in here written by another person. I thought that seemed light for a Naval vessel.
The sketch they have of the Monitors  turret ,the guns sure look like big Parrots.

[phalanx]

lance it goes on to say ,the pilot house of the Monitor was shot off blinding the First officer ,the stack of the Virginia was broken off its mounts left hanging from Chains.
It seems the Virgina was scuttled by her crew to keep her from falling into union hands.
The Monitor sank from a Storm where she became swamped.Is that right ?

[Double D]

The large bore Howitzer , This gun became the favorite of Gen ,Sherman.
It was the first time a Machined steel sleeve ,centered into a cast steel casting ,was tried ,it was successful.
Though lacking range ,it could deliver more explosive than the other two guns and was used on Atlanta.
It also could deliver Grape shot to a larger area ,without the need for a canister for containment.
Making the suicide charges of the past just that ,past.

Does the book indentify this gun?

[lance]

 phalanx, most of the history you wrote out is o.k., i have a ton of books, but not the one you listed. mistakes get made and books get printed, even if the guns are wrong. I'll have to dig it out sometime, but i can show you a picture in a book of a Confederate soldier statue, he's standing proud with his .303 SMLE.  the stone mason picked that gun out of a book and thought it looked like a civil war rifle. the statue is still on display 100 years later, guess the saying about written in stone is true. Don't worry about it, just start building a good library, it's up to us to protect history, even if it's about cannons.................

[phalanx]

lance ,looks like you are right , On the Monitor 2-11in Dahlgrens , I went to Wikipedia ,but the info on the Virginia i get a different count.
One is as you say ,then another list it at 14.  They differ on the guns also ,one is as you say ,the other is a mix of guns ?
One even is an account of 18 .But some of these accounts are from reporters drawing sketches from the shore .
And the ships look different in each one.
In 1958 ,they may just look up an article written by someone and print it .
Your info concurs with the Naval war time museum.
Sorry ,just reading a book, the other stuff jives with what i have read before though ,i knew very little about that battle.
The wife bought me these two models to go in my study to look good.
Some British guy on there counted 12 guns and said they were whitworths.

[KABAR2]

Well the book did get one thing right about the Monitor the the barrels were longer than normal.

The turret and artifacts are practically in my back yard, one town over in Newport News Va.

here is a link to the museum. one day soon I'll have to get over there for some Photos, they have quite a collection of cannon.

http://www.mariner.org/exhibitions/ussmonitorcenter/

[phalanx]

DD it is a field Howitzer ,800 lbs, 3.5 inch bore. 58.6in long.
Different book than above some were even a 4.5 inch bore
with larger trunnions .
reducing the weight to 680lbs.
Siege Howitzer , 650 lbs. 6in. bore.64 in long
Mt.Howitzer ,310 lbs 3in bore. 37In long
5 1/2 British late 18th century 425 lbs 3.5 bore  26in long.

[lance]

 KARBAR2, the museum is about 5 hours from me, but i got lot's of kin folks in that area, 5 hours seems not long enough at times

[KABAR2]

Lance Like I've always said You can choose your friends, but you can't choose your kin! 

[phalanx]

Well all said,like i told kabar ,if i had it to do over i would have bought a Howitzer , in a field tube 4.5 .
I am working on it now ,because i can use the same Carriage for it that i have the Ord.Rifle on,and the limber will work .
Only thing is a 4.5  Man that is a labor of love.

[Cat Whisperer]

KARBAR2, the museum is about 5 hours from me, but i got lot's of kin folks in that area, 5 hours seems not long enough at times

kabar -  Thanks for the link!  There are several GREAT museums in that area.  It's about 7 hours from me (Lance lives about 40 minutes closer, but my wife and I stop at a LOT more yard sales on the way)!

[phalanx]

Half scale Parrot on ,bronzecannon ,really nice gun .Nice sights ,look like Chapman.
She seems to have been taken care of also.

[Victor3]

phalanx, most of the history you wrote out is o.k., i have a ton of books, but not the one you listed. mistakes get made and books get printed, even if the guns are wrong. I'll have to dig it out sometime, but i can show you a picture in a book of a Confederate soldier statue, he's standing proud with his .303 SMLE.  the stone mason picked that gun out of a book and thought it looked like a civil war rifle. the statue is still on display 100 years later, guess the saying about written in stone is true. Don't worry about it, just start building a good library, it's up to us to protect history, even if it's about cannons.................

 Lance, I have a funny related story...

 Some years ago, a good friend of mine asked if he could borrow one of my Garands. He asked for the "tanker" I had (Which is a shortened 308 commercial model, never used  in any war). I lent it to him without question, thinking he just wanted to shoot it. He didn't know that the gun was not a correct period rifle.

 Turns out that he was helping an artist friend of his who had been commissioned to make a bronze statue for a California cemetery to commemorate the WWII vets buried there.

 I understand the statue turned out very nice and is now in place. I wonder how many notice that the rifle is about 4" short of what it should be...

[phalanx]

Victor : Ouch !! That's like those cheesy WW2 movies where the Germans are using Sherman's.
Or the Westerns where they have a Colt SAA  before the Civil War ,or the Ball and Cap that uses Cartridges .
Do you ever find yourself poking holes in things like that ?
I read a review from a critic on that Movie ,,Gladiator,,once ,i liked the Movie ,but he pointed out the two guys sitting in the arena wearing Ray Bans ,or the Senator wearing Nike's.
Next time i watched it he was right.

[lance]

 Victor3, that is funny just shows that history repeats..............phalanx, i'm one of those guys who pokes holes in movies, anyway, there is an old civil war movie, and  i can't remember the name right now. the Confederates haul some cannons way up on a mountain, to stop Union supply trains. the Union troops bring in a big seacoast gun, and stay back out of range of the small Confederate cannons. the Confederates find a piano to strip for wires to wrap their cannon tubes, then they overload and shoot just as far as the big Union gun, and knock it out.......... i always wondered if folks saw that movie and tried it with some wire on a homemade cannon and got hurt.

[phalanx]

Piano wire ?? yea like that is going to help. Or like lighting 100lbs of TNT with a 1in fuse using a Cigar.then thinking you will get away.
Hollywood ? Responsible for Kids flying off of a roof with ply wood wings.
Or strapping an Estes Rocket on their butt.

[KABAR2]

Yeah, I know that movie, the fun part was they strip the piano wire out at a house being occupied by Union officers, right under their noses,

Wire wrapped guns are nothing new, some early guns were done that way, the Swedish Leather guns of the 1600's come to mind, in the late 1800's some cannon were produced with wire windings to reinforce them, the Moro's built cannons out of gas pipe wound with wire, so the practice is not unknown. 

[lance]

 well i had some time today to dig through my DVD collection, the movie is: Drums in the Deep South, filmed 1951, got some o.k. cannon scenes, nice naval gun on flatcar too. I won't say no more about it, cause some might want to watch it, but it's not too bad for a 50's movie.

[seacoastartillery]

     Thanks for the movie name, Lance.  My kids will watch older movies if I rate them as "worthwhile".  Let's face it; there are quite a few in that category.  They wouldn't even consider black and white movies until I introduced them to "The Thin Man" series.  Now I have "street cred." when it comes to the old "talkies".  The naval gun on the railcar sounds great.

Thank you,

Tracy

[lance]

     Thanks for the movie name, Lance.  My kids will watch older movies if I rate them as "worthwhile".  Let's face it; there are quite a few in that category.  They wouldn't even consider black and white movies until I introduced them to "The Thin Man" series.  Now I have "street cred." when it comes to the old "talkies".  The naval gun on the railcar sounds great.

Thank you,

Tracy

Tracy, you're welcome!, I also know about the "The Thin Man" series, please don't get me talking about the lovely Myrna Loy ......anyway, you'll like the loading and firing of that naval gun. It's a good classic movie.