Author Topic: Sighting in my .223 handi (Read 1165 times)

golfnut1969 · « **on:** January 07, 2008, 06:21:10 AM »

Could anyone offer advice on sighting in my .223 handi? I seem to have an issue with the gun when it warms up. How long should I wait between shots? What about between groups? How about copper fouling? Should I clean the barrel, including copper fouling, after each group? 2 or 3 groups? At all? Any advice would be appreciated.

I just bought the rifle a month ago and I bought new rings for it. When I last sighted it in I found that after 3 or 4 groups that my groups would loosen up quite a bit but more importantly, the groups would move around more. At first I thought it was the scope but I found that each time out, my first 2 or 3 groups were tighter and responded to scope adjustments. Groups after this seemed random and not nearly as cohesive.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2008, 06:40:49 AM »

Read the FAQs and Help info and Handi basics 101, oil of the latch is nunber one in causing accuracy issues. Some rifles take a lot of break-in, others don't if it's copper fouling bad, accuracy would deteriorate when the fouling reaches a certain level. Most Handis require some fouling to shoot good, but there are exceptions too. Did you polish the bore using the Cleaning and Lapping link in the FAQs? Not all need it, but most will benefit from it, saves a bunch of range time.

Check the base & rings too. Did you loctite the base screws before you mounted the scope?

Tim

mrbgt · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2008, 06:41:42 AM »

what ammo are you using? as a barrel heats up the groups will usually open a little . do you have a bull barrel? a bull would dissipate the heat better . how much bigger are the groups getting?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2008, 06:45:12 AM »

If it's the Superlight barrel, heat is your enemy a lot more so that for a standard contour or bull barrel. I usually shoot 3 shots in 2 minutes, then put it away to cool for 10-15 minutes and shoot something else, allow it to cool down before shooting it again.

Tim

golfnut1969 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2008, 08:59:12 AM »

Quote from: mrbgt on January 07, 2008, 06:41:42 AM

what ammo are you using? as a barrel heats up the groups will usually open a little . do you have a bull barrel? a bull would dissipate the heat better . how much bigger are the groups getting?

Various AMMO, same results for all. It is a bull barrel. I ussually shoot groups of 5 and throw out the 2 worst when sighting in. I start with 3/4 inch groups and after shooting 4 or more groups (20+ rounds) the groups end up about 2 inches, wit occational flyers. It also seems as if the gun starts shooting high after the barrel gets hot.

golfnut1969 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2008, 09:03:51 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 07, 2008, 06:40:49 AM

Check the base & rings too. Did you loctite the base screws before you mounted the scope?

Tim

I haven't remounted the scope yet as I just got the upgraded rings today. I will be using loctite though.

golfnut1969 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2008, 09:06:12 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 07, 2008, 06:40:49 AM

Read the FAQs and Help info and Handi basics 101, oil of the latch is nunber one in causing accuracy issues. Some rifles take a lot of break-in, others don't ...
Tim

I've read the FAQs and Handi basics many times (great stuff in there), but thanks anyway. This is not a new rifle (manufacture date of 2004), just new to me.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** January 07, 2008, 09:15:52 AM »

Same things apply, doesn't matter if it's new or used, the bore may need some smoothing either by more shooting or one of the methods in the FAQs.

Shoot it without the forend on, supported with the front rest under the frame, if it doesn't change POI and groups better, you need to work on the forend. If the scope is loose in the rings the POI will climb as the scope moves forward at recoil, although not typical with the slight recoil of the .223, they'd have to be pretty loose, it would be more likely with a big scope, just something to check.

If the POI and accuracy returns to the original point after the barrel cools, the problem is definitely with the forend.

Tim

golfnut1969 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 07, 2008, 09:18:49 AM »

I plan on re-mounting the scope tonight and heading to the range tomorrow afternoon. I'll post my results then. Thanks for the advice.

backstrap · « **Reply #9 on:** January 07, 2008, 01:40:05 PM »

If u use lock tite what ever u do dont use the red, i only shoot 3 shot groups with my heavy barrel 223 it seem like once it starts to heat up a little bit mine starts to open the group up so u might try shooting 3 shot groups instead or 5 shot groups

golfnut1969 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 07, 2008, 04:12:05 PM »

Quote from: backstrap on January 07, 2008, 01:40:05 PM

If u use lock tite what ever u do dont use the red, i only shoot 3 shot groups with my heavy barrel 223 it seem like once it starts to heat up a little bit mine starts to open the group up so u might try shooting 3 shot groups instead or 5 shot groups

Red loctite is for very large thread bolts.

I would shoot 3 shot groups but I can rarely shoot 3 consecutive shots well. I'm working on that but the fact is I'm not as good as I'd like to be.

Sourdough · « **Reply #11 on:** January 07, 2008, 04:54:04 PM »

I use my Handi's for hunting only, therefore the first and second shot are the only ones that count. So I only shoot from cold barrels. I found out that shooting anything more than three shots will start to string them vertically. I will shoot tow or three times then put it aside and shoot something else for a while. I use multiple targets on my target stand and reserve one only for the Handi.

backstrap · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2008, 08:12:50 AM »

i wouldnt say red loctite is for large threds, i bought a used bolt rifle that i wanted to change bases on and the person that had it before me used red loctite and i couldnt get the little base bolts out had to drill threw them and use a easy out on them had 4 easy outs and used 3 of them broke 2 of them geting out the 4 tiny bolts

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 08, 2008, 08:39:11 AM »

If you had used heat on the red loctited screws, it would have saved you some time and money.

If 3/8" to 1" bolts aren't considered large, I don't know what is!! Red loctite is made for:

High temperature, high strength for heavy duty applications

Designed for larger fasteners 3/8" to 1" (9.5mm to 25mm)

Locks studs, bushings and large fasteners against vibration loosening

Strengthens slip and light press fits

Removable with heat and hand tools

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=10&subid=48&plid=154

Even blue is more than is needed for base screws..

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=10&subid=48&plid=153

Green or purple would be more suitable...

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=10&subid=48&plid=695

golfnut1969 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 08, 2008, 09:54:37 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on January 08, 2008, 08:39:11 AM

Designed for larger fasteners 3/8" to 1" (9.5mm to 25mm)

That's what I was referring to, its printed right on the front of the package.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** January 08, 2008, 10:39:13 AM »

Yeahbut, my reply was to backstrap, you and I know that, but he doesn't.

I've been using red loctite for about as long as I can remember, since 1964-65 anyway, when I first started working on cars seriously.

Tim

backstrap · « **Reply #16 on:** January 08, 2008, 12:56:55 PM »

what ever but i do hear of people useing it on scope mounts y would a person do that when he can use blue or finger nail polish??i didnt mean that it wasnt made for big threaded bolt or bushing or what ever

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** January 08, 2008, 01:07:26 PM »

Finger nail polish would actually be better than blue too, and the price would be right if your wife already has some, just don't let her catch ya, it can be farily expensive too in more ways than one!!!

Tim

backstrap · « **Reply #18 on:** January 08, 2008, 01:15:54 PM »

yes that is very true Tim

golfnut1969 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 08, 2008, 06:29:13 PM »

Well I finally got to the range again to get the .223 sighted in, again. While I had some downtime I replaced the weaver rings with some burris zee rings. (Used blue loctite

) I was equipted today with 3 sandbags and plenty of ammo and time. Weather was windy, more so than I wanted, and cool, 40 degrees. I started out bore sighting to get on paper at 25 yards. With two groups after the initial shot I was hitting center of target.

Next I moved the target out to 50 yards for two groups, about 10 minutes apart. I was getting tight groups, with at least 2 holes touching in each group.

Finally moved out to 100 yards. My groups opened up a bit, but not much considering the winds were gusting. Anyway, I got it hitting about 3/4 high at 100 yards, which was my goal. I shot 2 more groups (10 minutes between) at this range without adjustment and was hitting where I wanted.

However... I did shoot 3 more shots right after my last group (no cool down) and the first shot was about 1/2 inch high, the next about 1 and half inches high and the next about 2 and a quarter inches high. I then let the barrel cool for a bit and shot another 4 shot group. The first shot of this group was about an inch high and each of the next 3 was consecutively higher. The final shot being 2 and half inches high.

What would cause the rifle to shot higher as the barrel gets warmer?

I've cleaned the gun up tonight and will head back to the range to see how it does cold again. I want to see if it's still hitting high or if it was in fact the barrel heating up that is causing the high shots.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** January 08, 2008, 06:43:22 PM »

Forend too tight, didn't ya shoot it without the forend?

Loctite on rings, specially blue isn't a good idea, they're tight to remove without anything on em, the blue will require heat for sure, I only use it on bases.

Tim

golfnut1969 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2008, 03:06:00 AM »

I didn't try with out the fore end, however it isn't tight and I have done the 'o-ring' thing. I thought I'd clean the gun and take it back in a few days to see how it goes. If it continues to shoot high, I'll try removing the fore end. However, this is primarily a hunting rifle and as long as it shoots accurately cold, I'm not going to worry too much about it.

I'll let you know how it goes.
P.S. Didn't know that about the blue loctite. I hope I don't have to remove the rings anytime soon. I'll use my wife's nail polish next time.