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Offline ms

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SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« on: January 07, 2008, 09:33:15 AM »


POLICE STATE, USA
SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
Cops demand boy go to doctor because of fall during horseplay

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Posted: January 7, 2008
1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Bob Unruh
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com


Nearly a dozen members of a police SWAT team in western Colorado punched a hole in the front door and invaded a family's home with guns drawn, demanding that an 11-year-old boy who had had an accidental fall accompany them to the hospital, on the order of Garfield County Magistrate Lain Leoniak.

The boy's parents and siblings were thrown to the floor at gunpoint and the parents were handcuffed in the weekend assault, and the boy's father told WND it was all because a paramedic was upset the family preferred to care for their son themselves.

Someone, apparently the unidentified paramedic, called police, the sheriff's office and social services, eventually providing Leoniak with a report that generated the magistrate's court order to the sheriff's office for the SWAT team assault on the family's home in a mobile home development outside of Glenwood Springs, the father, Tom Shiflett, told WND.

(Story continues below)


WND calls and e-mails to Garfield County Social Services were not returned, and Leoniak, who earlier served as a water court clerk/referee, also was not available.

Sheriff Lou Vallario, however, did call back, and told WND he ordered his officers to do exactly what the magistrate demanded.

"I was given a court order by the magistrate to seize the child, and arrange for medical evaluation, and that's what we did," he said.

According to friends of the family, Tom Shiflett, who has 10 children including six still at home, and served with paramedics in Vietnam, was monitoring his son's condition himself.

The paramedic and magistrate, however, ruled that that wasn't adequate, and dispatched the officers to take the boy, John, to a hospital, where a doctor evaluated him and released him immediately.

The accident happened during horseplay, Tom Shiflett told WND. John was grabbing the door handle of a car as his sister was starting to drive away slowly. He slipped, fell to the ground and hit his head, Shiflett said.

He immediately carried his son into their home several doors away, and John was able to recite Bible verses and correctly spell words as his father and mother, Tina, requested. There were no broken bones, no dilated eyes, or any other noticeable problems.

The family, whose members live by faith and homeschool, decided not to call an ambulance. But a neighbor did call Westcare Ambulance, and paramedics responded to the home, asking to see and evaluate the boy.

The paramedics were allowed to see the boy, and found no significant impairment, but wanted to take him to the hospital for an evaluation anyway. Fearing the hospital's bills, the family refused to allow that.

"This apparently did not go over well with one of the paramedics and they started getting aggravated at Tom for not letting them have their way," a family acquaintance told WND.

"The paramedics were not at all respectful of Tom's decision, nor did they act in a manner we would expect from professional paramedics," the acquaintance said.

So the ambulance crew, who also could not be reached by WND, called police, only to be told the decision was up to the Shiflett familiy.

The paramedics then called the sheriff's office, and officers responded to the home, and were told everyone was being cared for.

Then the next day, Friday, social services workers appeared at the door and demanded to talk with John "in private."

They were so persistent Tom ended up having to get John out of the bathtub he was just soaking in, to bring him to the front porch where the social workers could see him, the family reported.

Then, following an afternoon shopping trip to town, the family settled in for the evening, only to be shocked with the SWAT team attack.

The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.

However, the sheriff declined to provide a single instance of the father's illegal behavior. "I can't tell you specifically," he said.

"He was refusing to provide medical care," the sheriff said.

However, the sheriff said if his own children were involved in an at-home accident, he would want to be the one to make decisions on their healthcare, as did Shiflett.

"I guess if that was one of my children, I would make that decision," the sheriff said.

But he said Shiflett was "rude and confrontational" when the paramedics arrived and entered his home without his permission.

The sheriff also admitted that the injury to the child had been at least 24 hours earlier, because the fall apparently happened Thursday afternoon, and the SWAT attack happened late Friday evening.

Officials with the Home School Legal Defense Association reported they were looking into the case, because of requests from family friends who are members of the organization.

"While people can debate whether or not the father should have brought his son to the ER – it seems like this was not the kind of emergency that warrants this kind of outrageous conduct by government officials," a spokesman said.

Tom Shiflett said when John was evaluated by the physician, "they didn't find anything wrong with him."

He said the paramedics never should have entered his home, but they followed his wife in the front door when she came in.

"My attention was on my son," Shiflett said.

He said the SWAT team punched a hole in his door with a ramrod, and the first officer in the home pointed a gun right in the face of Tom's 20-year-old daughter.

"I don't know where social services ever got started, or where they got their authority," he said. "But I want to know why we have something in this country that violates our rights, that takes a parental right away."

He said he saw a multitude of injuries in Vietnam, and while he recognized that his son needed to be watched, he wasn't willing to turn his child over to the paramedics.

With 10 children, most of them older than John, it's not as if he hasn't seen a bruise or two, either, he said.

"Now I'm hunting for lawyers that will take the case … I'm going to sue everybody whose name was on that page right down to the judge," he said.

Mike Donnelly, a lawyer with the HSLDA, told WND the case had a set of circumstances that could be problematic for authorities.

"In Doe V. Heck, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals held that parents have a fundamental right to familial relations including a liberty interest in the care, custody and control of their children," he said.

He also said many social services agencies apply "a one size fits all approach" to cases, regardless of circumstances.


 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2008, 09:48:39 AM »
I did not read all , just to the part where the ambulance guy didn't like the family refusing a ride to the hospital !
Around here if you don't take the ride you don't pay for the call , now if that's true there , I also can't see a need to read any more ! around here they will do most , say most anything to get you to ride ! now it would be cold hearted and with out fact to suggest that the ride is encouraged to make a profit but then police ticket quotas and speed traps exist in theory at least also ! so its a possibility at least !
Got to ask - was a knock on the door not tried ? was the father a threat ?  I'll go back and read more !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2008, 09:56:36 AM »
OK , finished it , my ? still stands A knock on the door ?
the sheriff must be a wussy ! if a Viet Nam medic causes that much fear ! Must have watched Rambo one to many times .
I can't imagine the chance of accidental shooting in a trailer park , how many would a round pass thru. if they fired a weapon ? the things won't stop a strong wind much less a bullet !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline myronman3

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2008, 10:04:27 AM »
 
Quote
I'm going to sue everybody whose name was on that page right down to the judge
definately what needs to happen.  kudos to him for keeping his head about him in this situation.  methinks a few power tripping morons' heads are about to roll. 

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2008, 10:18:02 AM »
Randy Weaver didn't teach them a thing !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline victorcharlie

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2008, 12:42:34 PM »
The SWAT team goes out way to often......what happened to good policing rather than assault troopers?
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline Dee

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2008, 02:19:43 PM »
victorcharlie, although I have the up most respect for law and order, I left L.E. after 20 years at the ripe old age of "46". I saw 15 years ago (left it 13 years ago) a trend of high and tight hair cuts, bloused fatigue pants, squad boots, and of course the "preferred" high capacity auto pistol ( carry a 1911 myself).
There IS a trend in law enforcement to "militarize depts" and of course the attitude follows. When you issue "toys" to young officers, they have a tendency to want to use them. I ran a swat team which I trained, and some had to be held back at times. It would appear that this sheriff needs to have a bit in HIS mouth, and a tight reign by some one.
Social Services are a CANCER to the American family as they RELISH opportunities to DICTATE to families what the parents can and cannot do. It is one of the many reasons I left, and will never return to the profession.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline nomosendero

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2008, 03:47:07 PM »
For some of our Elitist out there this family made a couple of big errors that they can't tolerate. Well, make that 3.
1. The boy recited some Bible verses, I doubt the upset paramedic could do the same.
2. The father is a "Constitutionalist", a big no-no. How much of the Constitution does the Sheriff know, not much I would bet. the sheriff is an elitist no doubt, I notice how he said that he should have a right to make this type decision for HIS family, but the father in that case did not have this right. Why not, go back to 1 & 2.

And oh yea!!
3. The father made the decision, not the State. This was bad because the Father acted as the head of the family & that is too traditional. Didn't he know the real parent should be the Gov? This just doesn't fit "modern" thinking.
 
People that live by the Bible & the Constitution & have a Dad as a decision maker are dangerous to "Jack Booted Thugs" & secularists everywhere & would be viewed as weird folks.

I see the trend with some LE officers that Dee mentioned. I even see our younger game wardens with their little shaved heads & black fatigues & spend more time looking for Mar. smoking college kids floating the rivers in the summer than enforcing game laws.

You will not make peace with the Bluecoats, you are free to go.

Offline frogjake

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2008, 05:44:04 PM »
 :-\  I am in awe of the numerous bad calls made by the "powers that be" in this case.  What the heck were those people thinking? (not thinking)   I really hope that guys lawsuits get him enough to get out of that trailer and on some property away from that bunch of jerks.    I hope that if something like that happens to my family that I can keep cool  like that guy did.     By the way I hope ya'll had a real nice Christmas and New Year.      Jake

Offline williamlayton

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2008, 08:53:43 PM »
HUMMMMM !!
Now I wonder if the big and bad folks have the backbone to see their error(s) and accept responsibility. They would demand that all others be forced too accept responsibility---let's see if the shoe fits both feet.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline victorcharlie

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2008, 12:54:59 AM »
I've not been one to "lawyer up", but in this case, something has to be done so that this doesn't happen again.....
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Tolerance in the face of tyranny is no virtue."
Barry Goldwater

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2008, 02:57:57 AM »
what a neighbor also !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cement Man

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2008, 03:22:33 AM »
I am usually skeptical about a story when I read only one version, so I looked it up in some other sources.  The following gives a few additional details that substantiate the wrongfulness of the behavior against this family.

I do not like this militaristic trend in law enforcement.  A lot of it is supposedly justified by officer safety.  Officer safety is a good thing; however, not to the point where you tromp all over peoples rights and carry it to excess so that everybody's safety is jeopardized.  I do hope Mr. Shiflett prevails in court and some corrective measures result.


NEW CASTLE - The Garfield County All Hazards Response Team broke down Tom Shiflett's door Friday night and, following a court order, took his son for medical treatment.

The doctor's recommendation: Take Tylenol and apply ice to the bruises. The boy was back home a few hours later.

Authorities said they had reason to believe Shiflett mistreated his 11-year-old son, Jon, by failing to provide him proper medical care for a head injury. But Shiflett says his privacy and his rights were invaded, and that he has the right and the skill to treat his son himself. Shiflett, 62, said he served as a medic in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive.


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Tom Shiflett is seen through the window of the front door that was forced open by the Garfield County All Hazards Response Team Friday evening in Apple Tree Park.
Kara K. Pearson Post Independent
Click to Enlarge

Browse and Buy
Post Independent Photos

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"Who in the world puts a stipulation on how adequate a person is to care for an injury?" Shiflett asked.

Speaking about the incident from his home in the Apple Tree Park on Monday, Shiflett was very upset. Perhaps most offensive, Shiflett said, was that law enforcement didn't announce there was a warrant before breaking into his home south of New Castle.

"I would have let them in," he said. "It was traumatic to my children, and it's unnecessary."

His spouse, Tina, and his six of 10 kids who are still at home were shocked at the manner of entry. Tina said law enforcement, wearing masks, broke down their door with a battering ram and pointed guns in her children's faces.

"They didn't need to bash into my home and slam my kids to the floor," Tina said, adding later, "I think they get a kick out of this."

She said law enforcement threatened criminal charges should the family even try to follow Jon or find out where he was taken. Jon was returned hours later, around 2:30 a.m. Saturday.

"In all there was not one shred of evidence found that we had done anything wrong or that Jon had not been properly cared for at home," Tina said.

According to a copy of Jon's patient aftercare instructions, a physician recommended Jon drink fluids, take Tylenol, use ice and keep his cuts from his injury clean. Jon still had a nasty-looking black eye and visible bruising on his face Monday after having been hurt in a fall on Thursday.

Jon injured himself by grabbing onto the handle of a moving car his sister was driving and falling. Shiflett and his family said Shiflett ran down the street, checked Jon for injuries and brought him back into their home, where they prayed, applied ice to his head and monitored his condition.

Someone - possibly a neighbor - called paramedics. Shiflett said paramedics looked at Jon after coming through an open front door uninvited. Shiflett told them he didn't want them to treat Jon and asked them to leave.

Friday morning, caseworkers from the Garfield County Department of Social Services arrived. Shiflett allowed them to look at Jon briefly but refused to allow them to take his son for treatment or medical evaluation.

Ross Talbott, who owns the Apple Tree Mobile Home Park and rents to Shiflett, said, "I thought it was an incredibly stupid power move by people who went in there misinformed and ill-informed. I think they violated their personal rights, their constitutional rights and their rights to family."

Talbott also writes a freelance column for the Post Independent.

"I've been (Garfield County Sheriff Lou Vallario's) longtime supporter, but I tell you what, to send a SWAT team down there was just absolutely over the hill," he said. "Inappropriate is not nearly strong enough a word. It was gross irresponsibility and stupidity. ... Is this Russia? I don't know what we're coming to when they think your kid needs medical help and they send a SWAT team."

Community relations sheriff's deputy Tanny McGinnis said two deputies were first sent to notify Shiflett of a court order for his son's medical treatment and that Shiflett did not comply.

Phone messages to Vallario were not returned Monday afternoon.

A search warrant and order for medical treatment says there was good reason to believe Jon needed treatment. It states that two social services caseworkers tried to explain to Tom Shiflett they believed the boy needed medical treatment after observing injuries including a "huge hematoma" and a sluggish pupil. They offered to pay for treatment, and said they would have to obtain a court order for treatment if they couldn't get Shiflett's consent, the warrant says.

"Shiflett shouted at this worker and advised this worker that if he obtained a court order, he better 'bring an army,'" the warrant states.

A first responder with West Care Ambulance wrote in an affidavit that she and others in an ambulance crew also believed the boy needed medical treatment.

The responder wrote that paramedics left the residence for fear of their safety after Tom Shiflett refused to let them treat his son and became "verbally abusive" to the ambulance crew.

But Talbott said he was there when paramedics responded, and that Shiflett was not yelling or acting abusive. He only asked them to leave, Talbott said, and paramedics were in fact acting belligerent. Shiflett says authorities had no right to enter his home uninvited and without announcing they had a warrant.

"When American law allows federal and state agencies to come in a home and confiscate family, there is something wrong with our system," Shiflett said. "If I can find a law firm or lawyer that can take this pro bono, because I have no money, I'm going to sue everyone on that warrant."

Garfield County Director of Social Services Lynn Rennick said social services is legally required to intervene when it receives a report about possible mistreatment of children, and that sometimes court orders are necessary. She wouldn't discuss any specific case.

Asked what he thought of being taken for medical treatment after the break-in, Jon said, "I think it's ridiculous. There's no reason for it."

Contact Pete Fowler: 384-9121

pfowler@postindependent.com

CIVES ARMA FERANT - Let the citizens bear arms.
POLITICIANS SHOULD BE LIMITED TO TWO TERMS - ONE IN OFFICE AND ONE IN PRISON.... Illinois already does this.

Offline Tn Jim

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2008, 04:45:37 AM »
Get used to it guys. Big Brother is watching you and every day he has more rights and we have less.It's going to take a hell of alot more than a lawsuit to stop this kind of goberment intrusion. But, alas, we are surrounded by sheep that lack the guts to tell the goberment "ENOUGH!!" This type of thing is only going to happen more often. The courts have ruled more than once that the police have no obligation to protect or defend any of us. Then who do they "serve and protect"? Why, the goberment (the issuers of the paycheck and provider of the toys) of course! Can you say "Modern Day Gustapo" Mein Furher? I was stationed in Germany during the eighties for over five years and my wife is full blooded. I talked to her grand parents at length about what happened in the 30s and 40s. We are on the same road Gents, just too blind to see it. I cry for my kids and grandkids. >:(
Not all Muslims are terrorist, but oddly enough, all terrorist are Muslims.

Offline crow_feather

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2008, 05:45:26 AM »
What happened was not right, but it does seem that everyone jumps on the wagon screaming for change only when a citizen gets wronged.  You could have perfect police if you made robots to do the job.  But then you wouldn't get a warning when you got caught speeding the day you were laid off from the job.  And you would be arrested for picking that 20 dollar bill off the sidewalk and sticking it in your pocket.  And your 18 year old son would be arrested for rape when he was caught dorking his 17 year old girl friend. 

Officers are paid to make decisions based on what is happening at the time.  Not all officers are perfect, not all decisions are correct - and in this case, it really wasn't correct.  Police do not like law suits, they avoid them if at all possible.  If a law suit occurs, they make sure another one will not happen for the same reason. 

To say that one error in judgment is the beginning of the master race is as over zealous as the decision to raid the residence.
IF THE WORLD DISARMED, WE WOULD BE SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE USED BY THE AGGRESSIVE ALIENS THAT LIVE ON THE THIRD MOON OF JUPITOR.

Offline ~Ace~

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2008, 06:14:44 AM »
What happened was not right, but it does seem that everyone jumps on the wagon screaming for change only when a citizen gets wronged.  You could have perfect police if you made robots to do the job.  But then you wouldn't get a warning when you got caught speeding the day you were laid off from the job.  And you would be arrested for picking that 20 dollar bill off the sidewalk and sticking it in your pocket.  And your 18 year old son would be arrested for rape when he was caught dorking his 17 year old girl friend. 

Officers are paid to make decisions based on what is happening at the time.  Not all officers are perfect, not all decisions are correct - and in this case, it really wasn't correct.  Police do not like law suits, they avoid them if at all possible.  If a law suit occurs, they make sure another one will not happen for the same reason. 

To say that one error in judgment is the beginning of the master race is as over zealous as the decision to raid the residence.

Um... Yeah, Do you Not understand Illegal Search and Seizure ? the Cops were DEAD WRONG, and should have refused the orders.. Period ! They Judge should be in Prison, he is a Blatent Criminal, with Crimes against citizens of this country. You stated that cops have to make decisions,, When SWAT teams (Illegal Military Units Acording to the Constitution) take Military action against our Citizens, there is NO Excuse, Ever. A Warning VS a ticket can Not be compared to making a decision to Illegally enter a mans castle and hold him Hostage while you Seize his child for Gov forced Medical care... Give me a Break !

Offline Dee

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2008, 06:24:21 AM »
Well Ace, you certainly put it into perspective. They did in fact FORCE medical care on the family. Hmmmmmmmm This goes far beyond the SWAT team. Someone needs to look at the bigger picture.
You may all go to hell, I will go to Texas. Davy Crockett

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2008, 07:36:55 AM »
this is ridiculous !
first if you hire , train to operate a certain way , arm and order a swat team to act . you get what you created !
If a sheriff doesn't know when to use the swat team its not the fault of the swat team !
If a judge allows himself to grant warrants with false or bad IMFO. its him !
If someone fabricates bad or wrong IMFO. they are guilty !

maybe its to simple but the sheriff could have called and asked the father to bring his son in to be checked , told him of the warrant etc.
Now I have the honor of knowing officers on swat teams , some are good and some are rambo ! but to ask either to refuse an order in the field would not be normal . the swat team should be the LAST resort ( not the first ) and to start ?????? orders could get other members killed !

If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ~Ace~

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2008, 07:45:57 AM »
The SWAT team was ordered to perform a ILLEGAL ACT ! If they do Not know where to draw the line, they do Not have the Mental capacity to be SWAT... Period. They became Violent Criminals when theey accepted the orders. Passing the buck onto the Sherrif (Criminal) and the Judge (Felon) does Not work, as the officer is ultimately responsible for his actions. If he makes Illegal Traffic stops, or breaks other laws it is on Him, even if his Boss told him to do it.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2008, 08:12:06 AM »
how did they know ? I have no idea what they were told and i doubt you do either !
if they had been told the father was hostile and believed the warrant why would they refuse ?
it just points out the danger with lack of training at the top not the team !
like the old guy said i don't train dogs i train owners !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline myronman3

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2008, 08:19:08 AM »
i side with the father on  this, 100%.   

and EVERY cop involved had to know is was wrong, yet did it anyway.  and,  did it in such an aggresive nature, that they need to be sued right along with the judge, sherriff, social services and the paramedics.   
think about how YOU would feel if the state came in and made a decision about your child having (or not having) a surgery, taking the right to make that decision away from you.   personalize it,  then decide how you would feel if YOU were the one wronged.   
  i submit to alot, between taxes and court orders.  there has to be a line somewhere.   keep giving away your rights and soon you will have none.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2008, 08:24:46 AM »
I to side !00% with the father !
and in fact the police may be at fault but you or I don't know that !
what was the swat team told ?
what was the judge told ?
who lied ? or maybe who will be hung out to dry ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ~Ace~

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2008, 08:37:07 AM »
IF the SWAT team Acts on Bad information, 1/2 Cocked THEY are to blame ! They are a Military Unit, with the potential to cause Mass Casualties.. They Must question Everything, and act acordingly.. The Swat team is not given orders on how to Carry Out a mission, they are given the mission.. They Chose to go in Rambo style with guns drawn and doing Felony Takedowns on Innocent Citizens. The element of suprice is Great in situation deserving of it. They were not attacking a Para Military gorup, it was a FAMILY... they did not charge a Bunker, it was a House in a urban area. The level of force FAR exceded the the leven of ressistance, as stated, they answerd the door, AND allowed the SS (Pun Intended) people to Inspect the child the previous day.

Make ALL the excuses you want, they Overzealous Rambo style Military SWAT Team were the final straw.. There is NO Excuse to not have spoke with ALL parties that had visited the residence to be able to complete a Threat Assesment, and learn that they could knock on the door and excute the warrant.. Fulfilling their orders and Not breaking the law. I'm Done..

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2008, 08:43:55 AM »
guess they should have sent a reg. officer if they didn't want them to act like swat . hum !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline myronman3

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2008, 08:47:38 AM »
I to side !00% with the father !
and in fact the police may be at fault but you or I don't know that !
what was the swat team told ?
what was the judge told ?
who lied ? or maybe who will be hung out to dry ?
the constitution means nothing to you.  wait until you get your rights trampled.  it is always easier when it is someone else.   when in doubt,  their responsibility is to get better facts, not run around half cocked.   i thought it was "to serve and protect"  not "violate all their rights,  and let God sort 'em out".     
  so far, the only one hung out to dry is the family.  that is unacceptable to me.

Offline myronman3

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2008, 08:50:34 AM »
guess they should have sent a reg. officer if they didn't want them to act like swat . hum !
what would have been the harm in that?  it isnt like the family was barracaded in and wasnt talking to the police.   looks to me like they didnt like the way he thought,  therefore they were going to show him!!!!   can you say "power tripping"?

Offline bluesman

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2008, 10:02:50 AM »
Take the children and yourself
And hide out in the cellar
By now the fighting will be close at hand
Dont believe the church and state
And everything they tell you
Believe in me, Im with the high command

Theres a gun and ammunition
Just inside the doorway
Use it only in emergency
Better you should pray to god
The father and the spirit
Will guide you and protect from up here

Swear allegiance to the flag
Whatever flag they offer
Never hint at what you really feel
Teach the children quietly
For some day sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still

Mike & The Mechanics lyrics to Silent Running

Guys, if we don't get off our collective backsides and ACT NOW it will soon come to this!  This is just another Ruby Ridge or Waco.

Offline deltecs

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2008, 10:28:40 AM »
In order for a warrant to be issued, someone must under oath state a law has been broken.  From what I read the paramedics lied about the necessity and child abuse by the father in order to get the warrant.  They should be held, charged and convicted of perjury.  The sherrif obviously over reacted to the court order, the judge believed the statements from non police trained personnel in total absense of the facts, and the child welfare offices exceeded their authority to intervene without clear or even indicative evidence abuse had be commited.   This man is very correct in that the government and its officers did indeed violate his and his family's civil liberties.  Sue them and get a new sheriff.  Maybe he'd like to run for the office; sounds to me like a calm, standup, and constructionist principled man.  My hat is off to him for demeanor in this situation.  I'm not sure I could have done as well.
Greg lost his battle with cancer last week on April 2nd 2009. RIP Greg. We miss you.

Greg
deltecs
Detente: An armed citizenry versus a liberal society
Opinion(s) are expressly mine alone and do not necessarily agree with those of GB or GBO mgmt.

Offline beemanbeme

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2008, 10:43:56 AM »
If you train a dog to bite, what do you expect when you let him off his leash?  I blame the Sheriff.  And this BS, "I had reason to believe the child needed medical attention". On who's say so?  The neighbor's?  Some paramedic with how many hours of training?  How many hours of head trauma evaluation training?  Why didn't they send a DOCTOR over there if they didn't think the guy was right.  

And don't forget we're the ones who elect these people, ie Sheriffs.  How many rights have we let slip away or erode because "they were "doing it for the chirren" or "the war on drugs" or "homeland security".  Somebody said maybe he'll get enough money to get away from crap like that. Randy Weaver tried and look what it got him.

IMO, don't compare a SWAT team to the military. I'd take the greenest squad of marines over any steroid pumped, shaved-head, half-glove wearing, "hey, didya see how I body slammed that little old lady against the wall" bunch of gestapo Swat team any day.

Offline Tn Jim

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Re: SWAT officers invade home, take 11-year-old at gunpoint
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2008, 01:58:58 PM »
Oh bulls&@* guys!! What's next, SWAT teams for unpaid parking tickets? "He's got five of them sheriff he must be a real bad man." In fairness to the SWAT team, I doubt seriously doubt they were told the the whole truth. They acted on the intel they were given. DCS has no choice either. They are required by law to investigate every complaint they receive. The real problem here is the paramedics, judge and sheriff. Either they seriously overacted (doubtful), one of them had a major grudge with the father (most likely, since he is a self professed Constitutionalist and has no problem praying), or the nanny state is in full swing in Colorado (somewhat likely). As far as the militarization of the police, well let's just say this. I spent 10+ years in the Army infantry and the new police departments are equipped, trained, and act more military than my old units did. Have any of you ever watched the TV show "COPS"? Or "(insert city name here) SWAT"? Can you say overkill? I don't see how alot of it is justified. And Crowfeather, ONE error in judgement? Partner, put your rose colored glasses back on and go back to sleep. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Elean Gonzales in Miami, New Orleans during Katrina, we passed ONE along time ago! But as long as no one is kicking in your front door then there is no such thing as a oppressive government, is there? ::)
Not all Muslims are terrorist, but oddly enough, all terrorist are Muslims.