seacoast

[reddog]

Hi folks, I have been away from graybeards for some time now do to some problems I had. Now that im here again I see some things have changed. first of all is that this chatroom is now sponserd by seacoast. I understand the the interest in A rifleing machine. So I hope I dont get in trouble for what about what I'm going to say. I thought this chatroom was for common people who want to learn cannons. were all not rich, Seacost sells A cannon for 15.000 dallors that doesnt have more than 1200 dollars in matierial. Ive made this point before. I feel this is way out of line and if you buy one you wasted your money Reddog

[phalanx]

How Rude : What Sea Coast has in Material is ,in material ,he also has an Electric Bill ,Insurance ,and given the nature of his product i am sure it isn't cheap.
Trucking ,have you had to pay a trucker lately ? Bookkeepers,Employees , Bank Line of credit ,fuel expense ,Quarterly Taxes ,A fork lift ( and they love these )
Hoist ,over head ,20 k , Equipment loan ,steam cleaner ,EPA charges ,Equipment charges. i could go on and on ,i don't think Sea Coast is sitting back as a bunch of fat cats laughing about all the bucks they are making.If i lived by a large body of water i would jump at one of their guns,are you kidding 15k is a steal for a gun like this !! Yes some of us cant pay that ,and members here continue to post on poor boy cannon ,and i see Sea Coast come in and offer aid in their projects at no expense. In fact they send them Plans !! and offer to correct mistakes ! There i am a wild card here ,i said it ,its all my fault ,I am bad , Don't spank me.

[Graybeard]

You are way out of line reddog and may not be allowed to hang around long this time either.

You have no clue what they have invested in materials or time to make a cannon nor do I. But it's up to each person who wants a cannon to decide if the price asked is worth it to them. Some will say yes and some no to all such merchandise whether a cannon or something else. That Seacoast is willing to spend their money to advertise here is their business not yours. I have no clue if they have sold any or several cannons here. I'm sure if the time comes they feel it's not worth the price of admission they will no longer sponsor the forum. As long as they do feel it's worth the price to them based on whatever criteria they chose to base that decision on then it's none of your business who sponsors the forum.

If you don't want their products or can't afford them then don't buy from them but don't come here being rude and crude that they invest their time and money at this site in the hopes of a return on the investment. They are not the only folks advertising here just the only ones currently willing to pay for the banner at the top of each page on the forum.

I think they realize quite well their products are not for every member of the forum and that only a handful of folks might be able to buy one each year. I have no clue how many they sale but am sure the folks who get them and see the final product feel it was worth it to them.

Some folks have a beer budget and some a Chamapagne budget. In the cannon business clearly they are not trying to appeal to those on a beer budget. So be nice or be gone that's the rule site wide and applies to everyone.

[Artilleryman]

Respectfully Reddog you thought wrong.  I think that Seacoast Artillery Co. sponsorship is great and appropriate.  Also, I really appreciate their sharing of the how to make aspects of this hobby.   I have seen their work up close and it is very impressive.

Reddog take a look at the big picture of what is offered in this forum.

[phalanx]

I have seen their guns,They are on a Quality as of Many people posting here.  Of course i rib them about putting them on a field carriage. but they are nice guns.,and the quality is far better than one could expect. Resale of one of their guns never goes down , as with Cannon LTD or South Bend. they only get better. Sea Coast is Major League ,and they are stand up guys. Another one is Dom Carpenter,to him it is a labor of love for what he sells.This man will return your phone calls ,explain his guns ,and he too is a good man. I have talked to Susan at Cannon LTD ,South bend ,and Dom ,as well as Gun smoke. Chapman sights,Charlie the mold guy,and it is more their love for this than anything else.
If you had come here with a different approach,All of them would do anything they can to help you.
Poor boy guns ? I have seen nothing from these guys except trying to help. Go away if you have that sort of attitude ,don't attack these guys.
I may have problems on this site ,but not with the guys who make my guns.And for Gray Beard to come on here , you really humped the bunk. bark bark ,i will bite your leg man ,really.

[lance]

reddog, I just don't understand!!!! i've met Mike and Tracy of Seacoastartillery in person, they are nice guys! Last summer they took some of their valuable time,and came right here, to Floyd Co. Virginia for a shoot. i'm neither rich or poor, but they let me as well as anyone else that wanted to, fire that beautiful work of art 15,000 dollar gun. They are regular guys, but with many talents and skills, you'd have to see and touch the gun in person to understand things a little bit better. What impressed me the most was that we all sat around and talked, while eating hotdogs cooked on the grill. They are real people that care and take the time to talk and listen, i don't know what else to say, they are NICE GUYS!...........A lady friend of mine bought a $750 horse, worked, trained and showed the horse for six months. then sold it for $16,500.......did she rob them, did the folks waste their money, they were the high bidders and knew what they wanted.......... there will be another Floyd co. shoot this year, all are welcome, rich, poor, all will be treated and respected the same. don't matter if someone has a seacoast gun, full size artillery whatever, or a home made fire cracker cannon. The way i see it, people have what they can build or afford to buy, but ALL should be respected for lovers of artillery! That's one of lifes little lessons i saw in use by Mike and Tracy.

[KABAR2]

Reddog,

Although I am new to this site, Seacoastartillery has done nothing but move the bar higher, their attention to scale detail, the building of tools and fixtures makes this endeavor
they have dedicated themselves to a costly proposition. Sometime you should go and study a cannon or for that matter a gun you would like to make, take it apart and reverse engineer it,
buy a lathe a milling machine test equipment, train yourself as a machinist, take a course in gun smithing,, and then after you have put your blood sweat and tears into the project go ahead and sell it for a
little above the cost of your materials! Yeah if you had their knowledge, skill & abilities I don't think you would be spouting this dribble,
Do you go to your doctor and say heck that medication should only cost 10.00 that's what the chemical components are worth, No you are paying for years of hard fought research that put those chemicals in the proper amounts to do what they need to do to cure you!
Next time you buy a new car tell the Cadillac  that they shouldn't cost so much, there's about 4,000 in material used to build it! See what they say.
Maybe you would have more fun stalking sports figures, you could complain to them how they are paid too much, heck they shouldn't make more than you do should they?
Or perhaps you would be satisfied if some Chinese factory built a substandard copies of what Seacoastartillery makes so that EVERYONE could afford to have one........... I guess you'd rather buy your cannon at Walmart. By the sound of it that is more your speed.

KABAR out!

[Double D]

Well, my what should I say except  Reddog this isn't teh first time you brough this up!

I hate to be A pessimist but for A 1" bore cannon 15,000$ is A lot of money, not everyone on this board can afford that kind of money!! I bet it only cost 1000$ in Matierial to build!!

You got a response from Tracy

Reddog, you're a little off topic here, but we will give you an answer anyway.

1.   We do not make our museum guns for guys like Mike and I, machinists and woodworkers.

2.   We do make them for Serious Collectors, Investors, and Museums.

3.    NEVER look a gift horse in the mouth.

Bye the way, you are very astute with your estimation on material costs.  It comes in right at $1,100.  

Best regards,

Tracy

You then said:

How can I be off topic when we are talking about the cannon you sell?

And I said:

Reddog,  Tracy is not talkiing about the cannon he sells, he is talking about how to build a rifling machine, that is the topic.

I do think you are indirectly on topic with your question.  If you stick with the thread and follows what's going I think you will see how an $1100  pile a of wood and metal is turned into a $15,000 work of art.  You will see the tremendous amout of work that goes into building a model such as this. So be patient and follow along.  When Tracy is completely through with the description of how they build this gun, then I think you should ask your guestion again if you still don't see it.  

Continue please Tracy...

You never made another post in that thread and it appears your personal business took you away from the board two week before the end of that thread  but you had access to the bulk of that .  Oh they weren't sponsors back then either.

I don't know what kind of work you do or how you get paid for it.  You do get paid, I'm sure.  The number of hours that the Seacaost  guys put   into a piece must far exceed the end cost. I doubt they get paid for the hours they put in.  The detail can only at bet be described as meticulous.  Do you have any idea what a jub shop would charge you for such work, no a clue I'll bet.  Are you capable of building to this level?  I doubt it or you wouldn't criticize it.  

Have you even looked at the post they put up on the Brooks rifle. The details and machine skills wow!!  

While it may be true that they will never sell any one on this board a gun, they have shared their skills with us no charge.   Wow how about that.  They pay to sponsor a board for people that they most likely will never sell a thing to: they share their skill and knowledge with these people; and they get insulted.

The first time you posted the question last year, I didn't think you were intentionally being rude. I thought  you just weren't very tactful or eloquent.  And I considered you question in that light, and figured you just didnot understand what was involved in building there guns.

Now you return and post the same question and I have to wonder what your purpose is?  Do you have some sort axe to grind with Seacoast.

So we now come to your post today:

Hi folks, I have been away from graybeards for some time now do to some problems I had. Now that im here again I see some things have changed. first of all is that this chatroom is now sponserd by seacoast. I understand the the interest in A rifleing machine. So I hope I dont get in trouble for what about what I'm going to say. I thought this chatroom was for common people who want to learn cannons. were all not rich, Seacost sells A cannon for 15.000 dallors that doesnt have more than 1200 dollars in matierial. Ive made this point before. I feel this is way out of line and if you buy one you wasted your money Reddog

You tell us how much you would charge to build this gun,  buiilt with same level of  detail?  Can you build this gun to this level?  

If you can not build to this level or can not explain how you can build to this level cheaper then your post is nothing more than a cheap shot meant to in flame!  Flaming is not allowed on this board.  

So your choices.

1. Explain how you can do it just as well cheaper

2. Apologize for your rude behavior

or

3. Take a hike for flaming.

[Double D]

Word of Warning to everyone.  I think there is going to be some piling on here.  I can understand that.  To say Redddog is rude, is one thing.  To call him names or be rude in return to him in return will not be permitted.

Continue. 

[phalanx]

Come in Kabar:
 can you believe that? You and i been some places they would have fried him for that.
He got off easy.
I have seen Seacoast guns,they are first class,
Have him go to Harley and say the same stuff.
About the same price,the same quality,same following.
These guys are carving out a Name in Naval guns ,A place that was blank for a long time,and they are doing a good job of it.
I do have a problem with them tough ,A BIG problem. When are you guys going to put your Talent on a field CARRIAGE?
Hay i want to shoot big icicles also ? Hay what about me? I am your Southern Neighbor? Why are you sending it all out to guys like Kabar?
See how your are !  (Just Kidding )
Sorry DD he deserved it.

[phalanx]

Sorry Double D: Me and some of the boys ,we were just Funnin.
But that Jasper took off and headed over the hill and we ain't seen him at all !!!
I recon we wont be seen any of that for awhile.

[shooter2]

My only comment is that I would love to have a Seacoast Gun in my possession.  I probably won't, but I  can dream about the time when I have such money available.  I am a machinist/armourer and I do make the odd desktop sized cannon for my own amusement and for friends.  Never, in my wildest dreams would I have the ability to produce what the gentlemen from Seacoast are doing right now.  I may have the equipment, I may even have some rudimentary mechanical skills but what I do not have is the research knowledge, the ability to hold every specification to the .0001" or better and the patience to keep on with the task for the months it would take to complete.  To set a specification at 1/6 precisely and then make EVERY SINGLE part to that exact specification, completely handmade, no commercial or store bought parts is truly remarkable and there is nothing like this on the planet to my knowledge.  Overall $15,000 is cheap for this level of skill.  AND THEN they come on this forum and show us how to do it and how to rifle, words fail me.
I fervently hope that the Seacoast gentlemen ignore this episode of rudeness and continue to grace us with their presence and their knowledge so freely shared.
Yours sincerely
Shooter 2
Australia

[Victor3]

 Where was it ever stated that this place was only for "common people?"

 Look at some of the guns from collections of folks here - Some would no doubt cost more to purchase that the ones made by Seacoast, and some who post here can indeed afford to buy one from Seacoast if they want to.

 All classes of people interested in cannons are able to learn and contribute here.

 It also seems that the moderators are even willing to endure some posters with NO class...

 

[KABAR2]

My only comment is that I would love to have a Seacoast Gun in my possession.  I probably won't, but I  can dream about the time when I have such money available.  I am a machinist/armourer and I do make the odd desktop sized cannon for my own amusement and for friends.  Never, in my wildest dreams would I have the ability to produce what the gentlemen from Seacoast are doing right now.  I may have the equipment, I may even have some rudimentary mechanical skills but what I do not have is the research knowledge, the ability to hold every specification to the .0001" or better and the patience to keep on with the task for the months it would take to complete.  To set a specification at 1/6 precisely and then make EVERY SINGLE part to that exact specification, completely handmade, no commercial or store bought parts is truly remarkable and there is nothing like this on the planet to my knowledge.  Overall $15,000 is cheap for this level of skill.  AND THEN they come on this forum and show us how to do it and how to rifle, words fail me.
I fervently hope that the Seacoast gentlemen ignore this episode of rudeness and continue to grace us with their presence and their knowledge so freely shared.
Yours sincerely
Shooter 2
Australia

REDDOG!  NOW LOOK WHAT YOU GONE AND DONE! YOU'VE CREATED AN INTERNATIONAL INCIDENT WITH OUR FRIENDS AND ALLIES!

BAD DOG!

[reddog]

I new I would hit A sour note on this one. IM sorry to have upset anyone. I stand by my guns, nice cannon? yes it is, way over priced. Now as to the the replys. I thought this was A website where your free to express your opinion, next, Kabar2 you have no right to holler at me in bold type, by the way I am A trained machinist and lastly dd if you dont like what I have to say I will respectfully withdraw my membership from this website, I wont belong somewere where your not allowed to express an opinion REDDOG

[Monk]

I lurk on here watching everyone else with envy. I can't afford any "boughten" tube, but I can dream. Some one has to pick up the tab for a site like this, Thank you Mike and Tracy!
~Monk~

[phalanx]

 
Guys lets just all do this ,no one post on this anymore ,really ,Every thing has been said ,lets just let this go.
I bet the folks at Seacoast just want this to go away ,i know i do.
Lets just all saddle up ,ride off ,and if reddog wants to go on he is talking to the hand.
Gray Beard and Double D have enough to do except watch this.
They are letting us handle this as members , and the greatest respect we can show to Seacoast is to just let this guy talk to the wind.
reddog ,you are still here as of the graces of this sites owner ,that says a lot about him,i have seen sites that would have fryed you. You have a lot of other forums you can post on,give it a rest.
I want to talk about my guns, I am learning a lot here when i thought i knew it all.
The last thing i want to see is you Bad mouthing my Friend ,or some people talking to me about how to Modify my Carriage and tube to fit ,and not sending me a bill.
As to some friends ,i said i wasn't going to post here again,But you stop this ,you got a problem ,you need to write me! one on one ,but keep it off the board ,
This Thread needs to die,go away,didn't happen.
reddog ,yes it is a site that you can be open on , Look at the crap i post ! just be careful how you post it.

[Cat Whisperer]

My apologies for not having tracked this thread for a couple of days.

I am locking this thread.  It will be removed in a day or two.

Be advised that there are several folks that have posted irresponsible comments that are clearly outside the rules of this forum and the board.

Should that immature behavior be repeated, appropriate actions will be taken.

[Double D]

I new I would hit A sour note on this one. IM sorry to have upset anyone. I stand by my guns, nice cannon? yes it is, way over priced. Now as to the the replys. I thought this was A website where your free to express your opinion, next, Kabar2 you have no right to holler at me in bold type, by the way I am A trained machinist and lastly dd if you dont like what I have to say I will respectfully withdraw my membership from this website, I wont belong somewere where your not allowed to express an opinion REDDOG

Reddog,

It's one thing to state a countering opinion and support it with facts.  You haven't done that

Iit's quite another to post  insults and call them opinion.  You have done that. 

Opinion stated as an opinion and supported by facts are always welcomed here,  Insults are not tolerated.

All that's left now for you to reclaim your credability is prove your point.

Show us some of your work made with the degree accuracy and quailty as  the Seacoast guys.