Author Topic: Omega Z5 range report (Read 2731 times)

Double 30 · « **on:** January 09, 2008, 10:00:38 PM »

Had to dismount her after deer season as we got rained/snowed on several times. Went to do a zero check and well , she was ON. Fired 2 loads, a .430 Hornady XTP 240 gr in a Harvester sabot over 70 gr of 3f T7 lit by CCI small pistol primers in Variflames. She hit dead center and the 3 shots measure 9/16 " at 100

. The 2nd load was a .430 Hornady XTP 300 gr in a Harvester sabot over 80gr of 3f T7 same primers and it hit 1 inch lower than the 240's and gave a 7/16" group at 100

. Groups are measure center to center. My Z5 wears a Leupy VX1 2x7 in low Leupy QR mounts.Groups were shot on 7x. My groups have benn constantly and significantly smaller shooting .44's than .45's and i've found the thicker .44 sabots seem to be far less effected by barrel heat than the thinner .45's. These loads ram easily in my omega, which has 1090 rounds through her , but are a tough load in my buddy's new Omega. I zapped 2 deer with the 240 gr load this year and can report the load is a death ray

. Recoil of both loads was modest and controllable.Will chrono soon and report. Results like these are getting more common and are why I retired my breechloaders.

30-06man · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2008, 03:49:28 PM »

NICE!!!

Is yours the blued one or the Stainless?

Double 30 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2008, 03:44:23 AM »

Blued with the regular synthetic stock. But I didn't like the powder coated alloy guard so I sent the breech assembly to T/C who initially stated they wouldn't put a blued guard on a stainless block, but would swap the whole assembly free.I like the stainless block and the trigger on mine is excellent( best factory trigger I've ever had).I sent them the assembly and asked again if it was at all possible just put the blued guard on. They did for no cost.Great service

! Now someone please make a nice non-laminate wood stock for these rifles! That would make them perfect. I can live with the tupperware, but it seems strange to be sitting in my den lovingly rubbing Armor All on the stock...

Davemuzz · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2008, 04:13:34 AM »

I dunno man.......I think with those kind of groups I could seriously get over the compulsion to involuntarily ralph at the looks of the stock. Some guys trade in there center fire rifles and handguns at huge losses to get rifles\guns that shoot close to those groups.

Good shootin!

Dave

30-06man · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2008, 11:15:52 AM »

I have to agree with Davemuzz. Although I would like the Lam stocks myself I can live with synthetic.

simonkenton · « **Reply #5 on:** January 13, 2008, 06:42:26 AM »

Less than 1/2 MOA with a muzzleloader.
Outstanding!

I know what you mean about the tupperware stock. I have one on my Savage. But, one reason I bought the Savage is that you can get a nice maple stock from rifle-stocks.com that will fit with just a little modifications. I want to get one but I just haven't gotten around to it, plus, I am getting 1 1/2 inch groups as is, not as good as you but still pretty good, and in a way I think, "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

Davemuzz · « **Reply #6 on:** January 13, 2008, 09:21:29 AM »

Quote from: simonkenton on January 13, 2008, 06:42:26 AM

Less than 1/2 MOA with a muzzleloader.
Outstanding!

I know what you mean about the tupperware stock. I have one on my Savage. But, one reason I bought the Savage is that you can get a nice maple stock from rifle-stocks.com that will fit with just a little modifications. I want to get one but I just haven't gotten around to it, plus, I am getting 1 1/2 inch groups as is, not as good as you but still pretty good, and in a way I think, "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

That looks like "if it's brown, it's down MOA". Kind of tough to move "restock that one" to the top of the list.

Dave

DakotaJeff · « **Reply #7 on:** January 13, 2008, 11:03:08 AM »

Double_30,

I'm shooting the same bullet / sabot combo in my Omega Z5 and getting similar results at 100 yards, at least with the 240 grain XTPs. I need to experiment a bit more with the 300 grain XTPs. I harvested a doe with the 240s last year and was happy with the results.

Jeff

Double 30 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 15, 2008, 03:28:53 PM »

Took her out 2 days later and got the shock of my life! 300 gr XTP, Harvester sabots 80gr 3f T7 3 rounds 100 yards center to center 3/16 inch. A nice slightly figure 8 shape hole. Thought I blew the 3 round off the paper but the backer is brand new and no errant hole to be found.Soon as I figure out how I'll post the target. This is the smalles group I've ever fired with any rifle.Ever. This Z5 was the best $280 I ever spent on a rifle.

30-06man · « **Reply #9 on:** January 15, 2008, 03:40:36 PM »

Take a pic and when you go to reply click on the Additional Options and Click Browse and find the pic you want and click post. It will come up. You have to upload it to your computer with a wire that is given with your camera and save it to my pics. PM me if you need any other help. The only way I know how to do this is from the site but anything else I can't help you with because I might as well be looking into the Human Brain.

Double 30 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2008, 12:33:11 PM »

Late update... Chrono'd both loads. The 240/70 gr averages 1725 fps and the 300/80 gr averages 1660 fps.. The powder is 3f triple 7 and the velocity deviations are less than 20 fps with both loads.Ignition is with Variflames with CCI small pistol primers with the 240's and small rifles with the 300's.

Davemuzz · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2008, 02:28:16 PM »

D-30,

My 45-70 405 grain crony's at 1800 fps....and that's with Varget. So if your smoke pole is puttin 'em out there at those velocities and your shootin groups like that, you have no choice but to sell me the gun for $100. Face it. The gun is junk and I'll take it off your hands just so you can keep your sanity.

Hey....not everyone on this forum would do that for ya!

Dave

(Niiiiiiiiiicccccccccccccceeeeeeeeeeeeee!!)

burntmuch · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2008, 04:03:42 PM »

All right guys you put me over the edge. Ive been drooling over a used omegaZ5 with a leupold 2.5X8 for a month or so. Just couldnt justify buying it. Im gonna go put it on layaway. Any one need a winchesterX150 50 cal

Jay

Davemuzz · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2008, 11:54:50 PM »

Burntmuch..,..Yeah...that's what we do!!! We don't really own or shoot these guns. We just get a big cut of any that we sell over the internet! Cha....Ching!!!!

Dave

30-06man · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2008, 05:08:18 PM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on February 18, 2008, 11:54:50 PM

Burntmuch..,..Yeah...that's what we do!!! We don't really own or shoot these guns. We just get a big cut of any that we sell over the internet! Cha....Ching!!!!

Dave

Internet Salesmen and its great how we can fake our knowledge.

Graybeard and Quickdtoo are masters at it. I haven't been getting my cut though.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2008, 02:49:59 AM »

Double 30 What Harvester sabots are you using? The standard Harvester or the crush rib sabots. I've shot the 240gr XTP in a T/C sabot it shot pretty good. My plans are to buy a box of the 300gr .430 44XTP. The sabot decision is still up in the air. Sounds to me you have a winning combination right now.

Thanks.

Double 30 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 27, 2008, 01:05:09 AM »

str8shooter48, Plain Harvesters, not the crush ribs. My Z5 slugs .500/.510 and she loads nice as you please.In fact she seems alittle loose for shooting as well as she does.BTW her barrel has fired 1150 rounds so far, and accuracy is improving with use.

str8shooter48 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 27, 2008, 03:37:57 AM »

Quote from: Double 30 on February 27, 2008, 01:05:09 AM

str8shooter48, Plain Harvesters, not the crush ribs. My Z5 slugs .500/.510 and she loads nice as you please.In fact she seems alittle loose for shooting as well as she does.BTW her barrel has fired 1150 rounds so far, and accuracy is improving with use.

Thank you.

vabowhntr · « **Reply #18 on:** February 27, 2008, 03:21:54 PM »

Well, my Z5 Omega with Weathershield is only doing about 1.25" groups at 100 yards with the 250 gr SST's and regular black MMP sabots over 90 gr of t7 2f. Looks like I might need to fine tune some more. I might have to drop down to 80 gr and see what she will do. Also use some t7 primers, maybe a new bullet combo.

Then again, 1.25" groups at 100 yards should kill any deer out there...but it sure is fun trying new things!

On a side note, I was amazed how little difference there is when you look at a graph of the tragectory of 250 gr SST going 1700 fps vs. 1900 fps. The extra velocity out to 150 yards (as far as I have ever shot at a deer and I have killed scores of them) is not going to make you hit or miss a deer. I guess I will start with 80gr and work up from there to see what is more accurate.

gila_dog · « **Reply #19 on:** March 01, 2008, 01:34:16 PM »

I WANT AN OMEGA!!!!!!

Hey Double30, I notice you are shooting 3F T7, and you aren't using the 209 primers. What do you think would happen if you were using 2F and 209's?

Also, what about a heavier powder charge (100 gr+)? I hunt elk with a muzzle loader and need a heavy bullet (300 gr+) moving pretty fast, to kill one of those things quickly. If I could get 1.5" groups with a big heavy bullet moving really fast, I would call it good enough.

30-06man · « **Reply #20 on:** March 01, 2008, 03:08:37 PM »

A 250 grain bullet will do the job just fine. Its still all about shot placement. I would try 3 pellets or 120 grains of loose T7 if I were you first. IMO

Double 30 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 03, 2008, 07:49:55 AM »

Haven't tried 2f in my Z5.I tried it in a couple other inlines and found better accuracy with the 3.Also get slightly better accuracy with the sr/sp primers in the variflames.With the light charges I shoot , the 209's probably kicks the load colum up the bore a bit before full ignition.I figure the heavier the load the more inertia the primer blast has to overcome.I also notice the plugs erode alittle quicker with 209's.While the Variflame kit is a bit expensive, the sr/sp primers are significantly cheaper then 209's.Recoil and I dont get along after I got rear ended so I have to throttle things down abit.Never shot an elk , but i believe if I stuck a 300 br .430 XTP in one's chest , the outcome would be poor for the elk.The .430 cal 300's have better s.d. an b.c.'s than their .452 counterparts so it is possible to improve penetration and extend your range (slightly) using the smaller bullets without having to increase your powder charges.The ballistic superiority of the .430 300's over the .458 300's is remarkable.Keep your velocities within the bullets design limits and life will be sweet.One of the things I love about modern muzzleloaders is their versatility and with alittle imagination you can come up with some economical and superbly effective loads.

gila_dog · « **Reply #22 on:** March 03, 2008, 08:58:26 AM »

Tell me more about the Variflame kit. I do some rifle and pistol reloading so I have lots of small pistol primers. One thing I will say about them, tho, is that since they are so small they may be harder to handle, especially in cold weather, than those big old 209's. I like to remove my primer from my muzzle loader when I get into a vehicle, or around camp. And who knows what kind of situation you may find yourself in if you have to reload after a shot at an animal.

The reason most people think heavy bullets are needed for elk is in case you hit a shoulder bone instead of the ribs. And the thought is that the heavier bullet will penetrate further no matter what you hit. Elk are really big, and are not easy to kill. Even with a high powered rifle shooting broadside at the rib cage you may not get an exit wound, and can have a poor blood trail, if any, to follow.

Great range reports and other info, Double30.

Double 30 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2008, 06:44:03 AM »

Gila Dog ,sorry for the delay. The Variflames are the same size as a 209.Its easier to think of them as a reloadable 209.I've had excellent results with small pistol to small rifle magnums and the versatility of the Variflames is a point in their favor.I've some Vari's that have been fired over 20 times and still give good service.My most accurate results in my Omega Z5 were with Variflames.I recently got a 25 ACP plug and have had good results, but case length does seem to have an effect on group size.Consistent case length seems necessary for best results. Honestly though, all 3 ignition types are more than adequate for any hunting purpose. 209's are convient, but the crud ring...Vari's are expensive, but if you have to salvage primers to keep shooting they are the way to go.The 25ACP shoots very clean, but the plug is expensive and the increase in volume in the flame channel would seem to demand small rifle primers as a minimum.I'm gonna experiment on that though.I've found many things that experts say wont work that actually do.besides , alot of the fun of muzzleloaders is all the experimentation you can do!