Author Topic: Used In-lines (Read 1993 times)

Stuart C. · « **on:** January 11, 2008, 09:54:12 AM »

Hi all,
Still learning here folks. Now I'm leaning toward an in-line rather than a non-replica.

- What should I look for on the used market in terms of ignition systems, ease of cleaning, etc.? (ie. are the discs that hold the primer still used or is that now old hat?)

- What brands/models/twist rates (for conicals) should I look for - for a good high quality utilitarian in-line deer rifle that won't be (too) outdated a year from now.

Thanks again!
C.

30-06man · « **Reply #1 on:** January 11, 2008, 11:22:14 AM »

It will be hard to find an Inline that will shoot conicals well some have had good luck with it but I haven't and don't use then in Inlines. I would look into something like any T/c or Knight. On most Knights you have an option of 2 breach plugs for 209's or 209's with a disc. I don't mind the Disc but some do. I would look into a CVA. I suggest a Omega or a break action. I don't much like bolt action ml but some do look and find out what you like best. The bolt action is a little old though. Look into a CVA or T/C. Just go out and look and tell us what model you liked and I can help you more from there.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #2 on:** January 11, 2008, 01:46:26 PM »

For conicals, Look at either knight or Winchester " X-150 or Apex" The X-150 i had, after free floating the barrel and removing some stuff touching the barrel would do under 1" groups @ 100 with open sights. Also would shoot a wide variety of conicals.

30-06man · « **Reply #3 on:** January 11, 2008, 01:53:52 PM »

That is made by CVA. Same as their copy of the Omega. Very simple action.

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #4 on:** January 11, 2008, 04:09:07 PM »

Quote from: 30-06man on January 11, 2008, 01:53:52 PM

That is made by CVA. Same as their copy of the Omega. Very simple action.

BPI actually. CVA/Winchester/beartooth are owned by the company BPI. But yeah its a copy of the omega. Only the Winchesters stocks are solid and not hollow.. The barrels also on the winchesters are excellent conical shooters.

Check cabelas out for their feedback. Its amazing how many you'd find shooting 1" or less with powerbelts. Apex seems like they have some good accuracy.

Knight Rolling Block also seems to be a good one but i didnt like the straight stock on it. Better handle a few rifles and find which one shoulders the best.

30-06man · « **Reply #5 on:** January 11, 2008, 04:12:04 PM »

That's why I don't own the Winchester Apex. I don't like the solid stock. The KRB fits me better because I like a straight stock.

Busta · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:51:27 PM »

Quote from: Stuart C. on January 11, 2008, 09:54:12 AM

Hi all,
Still learning here folks. Now I'm leaning toward an in-line rather than a non-replica.

- What should I look for on the used market in terms of ignition systems, ease of cleaning, etc.? (ie. are the discs that hold the primer still used or is that now old hat?)

- What brands/models/twist rates (for conicals) should I look for - for a good high quality utilitarian in-line deer rifle that won't be (too) outdated a year from now.

Thanks again!
C.

White, they are timeless. .451 caliber is 1-20" twist, and the .504 is 1-24" twist, both have .0035" rifling and shoot conicals better than anything. The NEF and Knight are also excellent conical shooters with 1-28" twist rates on the .50 calibers.

Stay away from T/C if you are looking for a conical shooter. If you are looking for a sabot shooter T/C is hard to beat.

Funny thing is just a short 15 years ago, T/C would VOID your warranty if they found out you were shooting sabots in their guns. That was when they only sold the Maxi-Balls and Maxi-Hunters, now they sell more saboted bullets than anybody.

tn_junk · « **Reply #7 on:** January 12, 2008, 03:28:27 AM »

I have had the CVA Wolf, Knight Disc and now own an Encore.
I bought the CVA Wolf at a pawn shop for $90 and it would shoot as good as either of my other guns, with sabot rounds, and better than either of my "expensive" guns with a conical.

alan

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #8 on:** January 12, 2008, 04:55:34 AM »

You need to check your local regulations as to what is allowed in your state. Many states have specific things that are not allowed. Some do not allow closed breech rifles, some only allow conicals (Colorado for instance). What and where do you intend to hunt? What type of rifle looks good to you, break action, drop action, bolt, striker hammer (like most of the Knights and also the Whites)? Buying used means that you either need to closely look the rifle over for previous owners ability to clean and keep rusting away especially the bore. If buying sight unseen you need to trust the source. I have bought three Whites sight unseen and they are all very clean and as advertised, but I knew the source for one. I am selling one of the Whites soon as I have two identical .504 97 Whitetail Hunters. The Whites and some Knights have somewhat larger bores than T/C rifles which makes them easier to load but also specific as to bullets or sabot/bullet combinations. The T/C on the other hand have very tight bores and selection of sabot/bullet combinations must be held to the minimum diameters. Most T/C rifles with the QLA (relieved muzzle for loading) tend to not shoot conical bullets other than Powerbelts very well. A few will but in general they will not. White by the way is basically out of business but their rifles are so user friendly they are in high demand. One of the few that can be shot continuously without swabbing the bore between shots. I bought a Knight KRB7 rolling block and really like it (about $300 delivered new) from R&R Arms.

Stuart C. · « **Reply #9 on:** January 13, 2008, 04:59:20 AM »

Hi,
This will be used for deer in Massachusetts. Ma law does not allow hinged action for part of the season. (

) They allow hinged during shotgun season. Anyway, I looked at the TC Omega yesterday and picked up some cleaner and bore butter etc which I'm assuming I can use on any brand gun.

Thanks for all the info. I have some more questions:

- Could someone let me know via private message what the banned words are. I don't want to get into it, I just want to know what i can't ask about.
- Are powerbelts the way to go or is a regular conical better, the conical being just a little harder to load, no? Now I'm confused on what projectile is best.
- Looked at a T/C Omega pivot action yesterday. Seems very nice but so does the Knight.
- Can you get away with shotgun cleaning rods and 28 ga bore scrubbers and mops when cleaning a .50 cal?

Thanks again for all the info.

30-06man · « **Reply #10 on:** January 13, 2008, 05:05:02 AM »

Check out a post I made about the Censored word yesterday. Ill send you a PM if you need any other help just let me know.

30-06man · « **Reply #11 on:** January 13, 2008, 05:06:56 AM »

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,135110.0.html
My post from yesterday on the "censored word"

Keith Lewis · « **Reply #12 on:** January 13, 2008, 04:36:30 PM »

I just checked MA regulations and unless the ones I have are too old it looks like you cannot use smokeless so the Savage is out. No break action so the NEF, Triumph, Traditions Pursuit, and several others are out. Pesonally I would look at the Knight KRB although it is heavy if you do a lot of walking when hunting, Other than that the Omega is a good choice or one of the many Knight striker hammer type like the disk, disk elite, and a lot of others. If possible you should try to find some to handle and see what feels best to you. Any of the Knight or T/C rifles will shoot sabot/bullets just fine and for deer that is what I would be looking at for projectiles somewhere in the 250gr. area would be plenty for deer. You may need to find a use for the Bore Butter as it is usually not an item that works well with the inline rifles. Some like it but there a lot of people that do not. Some of the Omega rifles will not shoot Tripple Seven powder well. Mine is one of them. It makes a terrible crud ring that makes loading a second bullet impossible without a lot of bore scrubbing. I see a lot of the older Knight inline rifles advertised at reduced prices and they are fine rifles if you like the plastic carrier idea for the primers. I think Knight now has available breechplugs that will convert many of the older disk rifles to non-disk use of the 209 primer. If you elect to look at the spanish rifles from CVA and Traditions I would try to go with the newer ones that use the Begarra barrels as that company is making good barrels. Some of the older Spanish rifles will shoot just fine but they are not a good investment as they are not worth much second hand if you do not like it at a later date. In fact muzzleloaders in general are not good second hand sellers except for a few like the Whites that cannot be had new anymore.

30-06man · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2008, 12:23:49 PM »

The Knight is so well balanced it makes it feel lighter than it is. Its not that heavy anyways. I would go with the Omega if I were you or the Knight

30-06man · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2008, 12:24:20 PM »

T/c Encore ML normally sell good used also.

simonkenton · « **Reply #15 on:** January 15, 2008, 09:21:28 AM »

I see you asking about conicals but you haven't talked about sabots. Sabots are legal in Massachusetts aren't they?
Saboted rounds are probably the most popular in line ammo, and they are great deer killers. I shoot the 250 SST and it is a great deer slayer.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #16 on:** January 15, 2008, 10:10:36 AM »

So many choices! Be assured that whatever you get today will be "obsolete" tomorrow and 1/2 price in a couple of years, especially the electronic ignition, you see how long Remington kept their Etronic line of 700's!

I suggest looking around for a good buy in the used or clearance rack. I use mine as a season extender, not as a primary deer gun, and am unwilling to spend a lot of money on something that I can only use for one week. Mine is a stainless steel Thompson/Center Firehawk that was almost new. It has standard #11 caps, is as accurate as I can shoot, and has never failed to fire. It looks great (not really a consideration, but a bonus) and is light. I hunted with a friend who had a Renegade which had to weigh 10 lb. I would never want to carry that much around. T/C makes a cover that covers the nipple and provides decent weather resistance.

30-06man · « **Reply #17 on:** January 15, 2008, 10:47:07 AM »

Rem has the Etronic Primers again. Thats a good sign if you have one. I don't like the CVA Electra and it is going to be a flop. The one they have had at the shop is still sitting there and no one has even looked at it. You can have a T/C Encore for that price.

woodchukhntr · « **Reply #18 on:** January 15, 2008, 02:47:47 PM »

Keeping up with the latest has it's price. The only "upgrade" that I would consider, unless something comes around that is really cheap, is a Savage smokeless ML. I hate cleaning the things, and smokeless powder is a big step forward.

My dealer had 3 Etronic Rem 700's that he just about gave away a couple of years ago. It was the only time I saw him lose money on guns. He said "enough is enough", they were hanging around the shop for too long. If I had bought one, I would stock up big time on the primers since they probably won't be around for long. I notice that there are none of the CVA Electra's around these parts.

alleyyooper · « **Reply #19 on:** January 15, 2008, 03:24:05 PM »

the Savage isn't really out of the mix as they work very well with black powder and the subs.
there a lot of used Remington 700's Ruger 77's and T/C Black Diamonds on the market that will shoot just about any projectile you stuff down the barrel. I will say that the Black Diamonds rep with a conical isn't all that great. Many blame the QlA. Problem most have with these riflles is the cleaning. Takes a bit of time. But if you like guns and rifles a bit of time cleaning them isn't all that bad of time. Beats the heck out of watching a soap.
Many of these rifles will have some nice scopes on them and a very good price when bought used as most have to be.

Al

30-06man · « **Reply #20 on:** January 15, 2008, 03:35:28 PM »

Yes they will have a good cost because people are starting to consider them outdated even though they aren't. I would look for a Rem 700 ML before a T/c Blackdimond.

buffermop · « **Reply #21 on:** January 15, 2008, 06:17:49 PM »

I live and hunt deer in Massachusetts. I just sold my black diamond and bought a Remington Genesis. A little heavier than the B/D, but a lot easier to clean. An accurate firearm for sure. Complies with the no break barrel law.

alleyyooper · « **Reply #22 on:** January 16, 2008, 07:21:40 AM »

Here are some examples at our local shooting store.

USED MARLIN ML5-50 50CAL MLS01716 W/TASCO 3X9 $219.95

USED KNIGHT DISC 50CAL CO 5001736 W/LEU 2X7 BLKPWD $450.00

USED REMINGTON 700ML .50 ML102490 FIRESIGHTS C.O. $195.00

USED REMINGTON 700ML54 ML043226 S/S SYN W/ACC $249.95
I have one of these and shoot 54 sabots I get from MMP and 50cal. 300gr. Speer Gold dots. Deadly combo.

USED RUGER 77/50 50CAL CO 73003259 (BLKPWDR)W/3X9 $295.00

USED T/C BLACKDIAMOND 50 80785 BLUE/CAMO W/3X9 $249.95

USED WHITE LIGHTENING 504 W1398 S/S W/SCOPE&SABOTS $195.00

NOTE THESE ITEMS ARE NOT FOR SALE.

huntersmurf · « **Reply #23 on:** January 17, 2008, 09:41:13 AM »

I'd look for a used White, they are masters of the conical. The first one I bought was in 1994 and I still consider it to be state of the art for muzzleloading. It will do anything any of the newer guns will do, and do it at least as well. They shoot sabots very well too and can take a 150 grain magnum load.

Stuart C. · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2008, 12:09:55 PM »

Ok, I'm narrowing it down. Which do you like better, is better made, etc. (for shooting sabots) and Why?
- Knight Revolution
or
- TC Omega

Thanks again.

30-06man · « **Reply #25 on:** January 19, 2008, 12:58:26 PM »

Both are good. I would go with the Omega. But If I were you I would look at the Knight Rolling Block(KRB) instead of the Revolution.

alleyyooper · « **Reply #26 on:** January 20, 2008, 03:38:25 AM »

At the begining you said used so I figure you are not talking about a new Omega.
I would go with the knight my self. Reason being, where I hunt during muzzle loader season it can get down to as low as -18 (1995) with out the wind chill. The Omegas trigger guard is just to small to get a gloved finger in there with out worring about setting it off. I also am not a fan of the QLA system. Many like the Omega though.

Al

Stuart C. · « **Reply #27 on:** January 20, 2008, 08:35:12 AM »

Yes, these are both lightly used from what I can tell. I liked the drop out trigger and stoutness of the Knight, and i don't think the discs would bother me too much. But the Omega is quite nice as well. The Knight just reminds me of a Ruger #1 for which I have an affinity. Half the fun is looking.

The KRB looks great from what I can tell but the price for a new one would be up there i'd bet.

Thanks again for all the info.

slayer · « **Reply #28 on:** January 20, 2008, 02:00:02 PM »

I wonder how the QLA affects conicals so much to affect accuracy? I hate the QLA with roundballs as the patch is very sloppy it them and gets off center. It would seam the QLA should be awsome for conicals as it would center it nicely. The key to accurate conicals in a 1:28 twist is using heavy conicals. When I say heavy, I meen 400 + grain conicals. Fast twists work best with longer/heavier conicals to stabilize well with heavier hunting charges of 80 gr. FFG and above with 90-100 being ideal. I use T/C .50 470 grain Maxi-Hunters and they are awsome!! If you are recoil shy you won`t like them!! Those little conicals that people try to use in them don`t stabilize well. starting at a 350 grain conical is on the light side.

Jack

30-06man · « **Reply #29 on:** January 20, 2008, 06:15:41 PM »

I the QLA makes it way worse. Some have gotten theirs to shoot well with it but many have not. $299 at bass pro for a Black Blued KRB. http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&partNumber=94880&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults $349 for a Black Blued omega at Bass Pro http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&partNumber=40475&hvarTarget=search&cmCat=SearchResults

The KRB will be your best choice for anything. The omega limits you greatly. The KRB has all the latest updates on it but it has no OLA or false muzzle so it shoots conicals well too.