4 5/8 vs 7 1/2 --- 45 colt killing power

[curtism1234]

I see a post earlier in the week discussing the sighting pro's and con's of each.
But what about the velocity and energy from a short barrel barrelled ruger with full house 45lc for deer hunting.

Is the 4 5/8 a big disadvantage compared to a 7 1/2 with the same load?
Or is the 45 colt powerfull enough that it really doesn't matter?

[44 Man]

You are right in assuming that it really doesn't matter.  You may get a little more velocity from a longer barrel or you may not.  Every gun is an individual and since all the parts fit just a little differently, velocities may vary.  I owned an old Emf Dakota 4 3/4" bbl that would produce 900 fps with a cast 255 gr bullet over Unique.  A much newer, Hartford model with a 5 1/2" would barely break 800 fps with the same load.  Go figure.  Pick whichever gun barrel length feels the best to you and go shoot it and enjoy it.  44 Man

[jk3006]

Count me in as someone who has gone from 7.5 inch six-guns down to 4 5/8 inch.  I don't have many six-guns either, but that's a different story.    At some point the 7.5 just felt a little to bulky.  The 4 5/8 packs real nicely and points well.  I'm just as accurate with the shorter barrel as I was with the longer one. 

My black hawk in .45 Colt will send a 325 gr wfn out of the muzzle at 1200 f/s with a healthy, but not crazy charge of H110.  I can't really see a situation where more velocity is needed.  Shot a deer with this combo and it just folded right in its tracks. 

[Sverre A.]

325 gr. through my FA 454, 7,5" get down the deer.
325 gr. through my Ruger .45 LC, 5,5" = similar result.

[Lloyd Smale]

44man said it well. theres things that effect velocity even more the barrel lenght. Id chose the gun by what felt best to you to shoot not which one gave the top velocity.

You are right in assuming that it really doesn't matter.  You may get a little more velocity from a longer barrel or you may not.  Every gun is an individual and since all the parts fit just a little differently, velocities may vary.  I owned an old Emf Dakota 4 3/4" bbl that would produce 900 fps with a cast 255 gr bullet over Unique.  A much newer, Hartford model with a 5 1/2" would barely break 800 fps with the same load.  Go figure.  Pick whichever gun barrel length feels the best to you and go shoot it and enjoy it.  44 Man

[Ken ONeill]

I agree that the potential velocity difference is insignificant in either killing power or trajectory.

[Graybeard]

Too many really fail to grasp the basic concept of why big bore handguns in straight wall calibers are effective to begin with. Velocity is not really that important in the equation of effectiveness. It's really all about sending a heavy large diameter bullet with a wide meplat down range at sufficient velocity to allow sufficient penetration of the game in question.

More velocity than it takes to do that might very slightly flatten trajectory but does little to increase the killing effectiveness of the bullet. So the idea that barrel length plays any significant role means one has failed to understand the basic concept involved to begin with.

Just take a bullet in which the caliber designation begins with a four or five and push a medium to heavy for caliber bullet to about 1000 fps or more and you have an effective killing machine in your hands. Barrel length has far more to do with sight radius and how that matters depends on our eyesight more than anything else. Get the basics down and don't sweat the small stuff.

[wyocarp]

I have to disagree with what people are saying.  The difference between a 4" barrel and a 7" can be significant in a particular gun and comparing two different guns is of little value since they could have different rifling, twist rates, actual barrel size, etc.  It will vary greatly depending on bullets, primers, and powders used.  Is all of this more than what many people want to deal with, yes.  But to categorically say it doesn't matter I think is far from the truth.

[SHOOTALL]

that being said at one time i had a colt frontier with a 71/2 in bbl and one with 43/4 bbl , other than the 43/4 was a bit snappier , easier to tote and a bit more accurate they shot pretty much the same ie sighted in at 25 yards they shot just about alike at 50 yds .

[Glanceblamm]

I am going to avoid articulating this but will admit to being hung up on the velocity thing till Lloyd and Graybeard explained how the handgun actually kills and how to get more power out of the handgun.
The theory's of these two guy's can be easily proved by yourself by range testing and shooting at different media. They are also supported by the likes of John Taffin.

My only advice would be that if you are in doubt, eliminate that doubt and go with a heavier bullet weight.
Take my little 3-7/8" Vaquero birdshead in the .45 Colt for example...If I load it with the accuracy load as said by the Sierra data of 9.4gr of Unique under a 300gr bullet, it is like a pleasant little pop-gun to shoot.
The velocity is listed as being 900fps but that data is for a 7-1/2" barrel, Not my 3-7/8" which could be substantially less. I cannot give you the actually velocity cause I dont own a Chrony.

Anyway...I figure that that load out of the birdshead has just as much killing power as an actual 1,100ft per sec load using the 250gr XTP out of my 7-1/2" Vaquero
OR
A 240gr XTP going 1,300fps out of my 7-1/2" .44mag.

I really dont have to worry about the Trajectory curve in that little gun because the 300gr bullet will print a bit higher to start with and equlize it out with the 250gr and the 240gr downrange.

Before I get flamed too badly on all of this, you need to hear what I will actually shoot at, and at what ranges while HUNTING.
For Whitetail Deer,
If I took the little .45 colt birdshead with the (somewhat less that 900fps) 300gr load, I would look at  60yards as being comfortable.
For the 7-1/2" Vaquero ".45 Colt again" with the 1,100fps 250gr load...60 to 75yds would be about right. If it was a good day and I was tuned in to the target (read  Deer) I Might extend this to 100yds.
For the 7-1/2 .44 mag and the 1,300fps 240gr bullet ranges up to 100yds are comfortable as those squared off Partridge style sights seem to help me out a lot at this distance.

To get back to the question of Killing Power, I figure that it is roughly the very same for all three listed at an honest 100yds for Deer sized game. There are going to be some differences but I dont think we are undergunned.
You might look at this as being on the Conservative side but in reality, I personally would be happy if I never had to shoot at a deer past 50yds again!
I do like to practice up to the 100yd mark just to keep my skills sufficient.l

[COR]

I have to disagree with what people are saying.  The difference between a 4" barrel and a 7" can be significant in a particular gun and comparing two different guns is of little value since they could have different rifling, twist rates, actual barrel size, etc.  It will vary greatly depending on bullets, primers, and powders used.  Is all of this more than what many people want to deal with, yes.  But to categorically say it doesn't matter I think is far from the truth.

Different barrel lengths in a Ruger BH (of the .45 persuasion) will have no difference in twist rate or rifling as you implied.  Also, the original poster said he was using the same load so to answer his question of "power" I believe Graybeard's post was spot on, and I would also add that accuracy kills, not speed, power, or bullet size. I also believe that Curtism1234 would find these articles by John Linebaugh very informative. Just click on the link and select some great reading about the good ol' .45.  http://www.customsixguns.com/writings.htm

[curtism1234]

Good reading COR

Thanks everyone

[kgb]

I'd check those speeds with shorter barrels, they may not be too much slower.  I've checked multiple loadings (in .41 mag but it should apply to others) in a 4 5/8" Blackhawk against a 6.5" S&W and in a couple of cases the shorter barrel was within 10fps.  Against a 7.5" Bisley Blackhawk there was a greater difference, of course, but the point is that individual guns will vary.  More important will be your practical accuracy with the shorter barrel.  The single best group I've gotten from any of those revolvers was with the 4 5/8" Blackhawk but field accuracy wasn't as good as with the Smith.  For that matter, I've got a FA M97 in .41 and am more comfortable shooting the Smith although the FA turns in better groups.

[jcn59]

I shortened my SS .45 Blackhawk from 7.5 to 4.625 & didn't notice any difference in accuracy.  I even temporarily scoped it just to be sure.  With the 360 grain lead gas checked flat points over 1000 FPS, it still hits like Thor's  hammer.......on both ends.  I got 1175 FPS with the 360s using a published load with the 7.5" barrel, and while the shorter barrel might not do this, nothing I shoot will ever notice the difference, right?

[Lloyd Smale]

The differnce in using the same load in the same gun with both a 4 inch and a 7 inch barrel is at the very most going to be 200 fps and at the least 0 and its even possible that the shorter barrel will be faster. but lets look at it logicaly and say theres an honest 150 fps difference. Now ive killed alot of big game with handguns and the only differnce in a 1100fps load and a 1250 fps load is recoil. Considering if you are an experienced handgun hunter and taking for granted that because your experienced you are using cast bullets. Tell me what you feel that 150 fps bought you! No deer or bear is ever going to be able to tell the difference. If your using jacketed bullets you may say its buying you some expansion and it will but at the same time your sacrificing penetration so its a wash anyway. Some like greaybeard prefer the longer barrel and feel they help them shoot off hand. Me, ive be raised on short barreled sixguns and actualy do my best off hand work with a 4-5 inch barrrel. As my eyes age it may be easier with a long barrel on the bench but i doubt youll ever see me go to a 7 inch handgun. When the eyes get that bad ill probably just take out a levergun.are saying.  The difference between a 4" barrel and a 7" can be significant in a particular gun and comparing two different guns is of little value since they could have different rifling, twist rates, actual barrel size, etc.  It will vary greatly depending on bullets, primers, and powders used.  Is all of this more than what many people want to deal with, yes.  But to categorically say it doesn't matter I think is far from the truth.
[/quote]

[corbanzo]

I would say that most peoples preferences with barrel length would be the sight picture much more over the difference in velocity.  In handguns, you can change powders and have much more difference in velocity than with the barrel length.  I am in full agreement that for deer, the .45 colt no matter the barrel length is plenty effective.  Anything that is considered thin skinned medium game this is also the truth.  Once you get up into the big elk, moose, brownie category, that is when you are going to want to make sure that you setup is EXACTLY what you need for what you are taking.  But even in this sense, a stout load (no trapdoor) at handgun ranges with a short barreled .45colt would be good for elk or moose.  The only thing that more velocity is going to get you with a handgun is more range.  If you are planning on hunting deer at 150 yards, then you may want to look into tweaking the gun and the load to match that range... 

You said it was a ruger, so it can handle a big bullet with lots of powder, which means the barrel length to the killing power of the round... not so much of importance.  The barrel length to the shooters preference - much more of importance.

[454Puma]

I agree with for the most part what been posted already- with the 45LC if you lunch a bullet of 250 gr or more at or around 900-to 1100 fps and keep it under 100 yds there isn't a deer that it will not drop! For that matter not much on four legs in North America ! So barrel being 4 " or 7" hasn't much to do with it!  I've gotten so that I don't shoot max loads anymore in my 454 Casull! Run most at 1400 fps just so I can reach out there a little if needed

[Hook686]

I see a post earlier in the week discussing the sighting pro's and con's of each.
But what about the velocity and energy from a short barrel barrelled ruger with full house 45lc for deer hunting.

Is the 4 5/8 a big disadvantage compared to a 7 1/2 with the same load?
Or is the 45 colt powerfull enough that it really doesn't matter?

It looks to me like less than 50 fps per barrel inch.

Buffalo Bore data:
Standard Pressure Heavy 45Colt   Printed Order Form   

Item 3E:  255gr. Gas checked soft cast bullet
(1000 fps  M.E.566 ft. lbs.)
 Per Box of 20
$30.86
Order Now
Item 3F: 200gr. JHC (Speer low velocity Gold Dot)
(1100 fps M.E. 537 ft. lbs)
 Per Box of 20
$30.86
Order Now

All of today’s standard 45 colt loads are very anemic. Often featuring a 250 gr. Bullet at around 700 fps.

We knew that we could develop a couple standard pressure 45 colt loads that would feature a 255gr. Gas checked soft cast bullet at around 1,000 fps or a 200gr. JHC (Speer low velocity Gold Dot) at around 1,100fps. We wanted loads that were substantially more powerful than today’s weenie loads, but that could be fired in ANY 45 colt firearm.

Both of these 45 colt loads are designed to be a heavy loading, yet be within standard (SAAMI) pressure. As such, both of these 45 colt loads are safe and recommended to be used IN ANY post-war 45 colt that is in normal working condition. ANY post-war means ANY post-war, so please take my word for it without phoning or emailing me “just to make sure”. I love hearing from and appreciate customers, I really do, but there is no sense using up your or my time answering questions that have already been answered.

These loads are indeed heavy 45 colt loadings. You can fire them in any post-war firearm that is in normal working condition chambered for 45 colt without reservation. These loads will turn your Colt SAA or clone into a powerful carry gun. The cast load (item 3E) is gas checked and will not substantially lead your barrel.

See the below velocities.

STANDARD PRESSURE 45 Colt velocities

FIREARM Item 3E - 255 gr.
 Item 3F - 200 gr.
 
S&W Mt. Gun (4 inch) 949 fps 1015 fps
Colt SAA 2nd generation (4 ¾ inch) 983 fps 1047 fps
Colt NF SAA 2nd generation (5.5 inch) 984 fps 1038 fps
Custom Ruger Bisley (5.5 inch Pac-Nor bbl) 1047 fps 1136 fps
Colt NF SAA 3rd generation ( 7.5 inch) 1053 fps 1112 fps