Author Topic: Which is better, 204 or 22-250? (Read 2864 times)

rex6666 · « **Reply #30 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:27:59 AM »

I was told this past weekend that Hornyday

is coming out with a 45gr for the 204
any one else heard any thing like that.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #31 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:34:15 AM »

The 45gr Hornady .204" has been available for quite a while. Berger has a 50gr, but don't plan on shooting it in a 1:12" barrel.

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000322008

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=468329&t=11082005

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00178204050T

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=811043&t=11082005

http://204ruger.com/204_data_hornady.php

aulrich · « **Reply #32 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:41:06 AM »

It's been out for a while if its the 45 gr psp, though I suspect it was a limited run, it seemed to disappeared fast. Only a few boxes of loaded ammo made it north of the border here, personally I have never used it. That bullet was a lead point so it was shorter that the 40 grain v-max, eliminating stability issues. My guess it is a predator bullet but I don't thing it got out in numbers to put a dent into bergers market share of that segment.

rex6666 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:43:25 AM »

I haven't seen any in fac. ammo. (where i have looked) Have you tried the 45gr Tim?
OK! I went back and looked at Tim's post, you reloaders get all the good stuff.
I think that is the bullet i want, should really overhaul a coyote better than the ballistic tip
guess i am going to have to start reloading.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #34 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:58:38 AM »

The 45gr ammo is available too. The only handloads I've shot in my 204 are the 40gr Vmax.

Tim

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000383208

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=441014&t=11082005

McLernon · « **Reply #35 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:38:51 AM »

Most of my experience with 22-250 is with Nosler BT's which are very explosive at 22-250 velocities out to 400 yards. I plan to use 40 gr Vmax in the 204. I don't know really what to expect on our big southern Ontario coyotes(45 lbs+).

Mc

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #36 on:** January 23, 2008, 02:32:17 AM »

the 204 will destroy a fox !

aulrich · « **Reply #37 on:** January 23, 2008, 05:42:41 AM »

Some guys report good kills but exits with the 40 grain Hornadys, so i would thing a little more penetration would be useful on those bigger dogs.

s_hawk · « **Reply #38 on:** January 23, 2008, 04:36:27 PM »

I like the 32 gr in the .204., very accurate and flat shooting. I've had great luck on coyotes at 225 yds.
Hawk

rex6666 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 24, 2008, 05:09:16 AM »

I was just thinking (their i go again) that the sp might be better for coyotes than the
balistic tip, maybe hold together long for more penatration

aulrich · « **Reply #40 on:** January 24, 2008, 05:40:29 AM »

I'd agree a little less prone to splash than the plastic tips.

When I see them I will give them a try, though the bergers work real well.

warf73 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 25, 2008, 12:22:06 AM »

The 204 and 22-250 are great rounds, with 0 complaints from me with either.

I think each has its place in the shooting realm.

As to say the 22-250 is far superior well that’s up to the shooters wants/needs.
If I’m heading out and there is a good breeze (winds 20MPH +) then I reach for the 22-250 and away I go.
But if there isn’t much breeze then the 204 gets the nod.

The 22-250 has a place in my heart as it was my first varmint rifle and it’s hard to not think about your first love.

The 204 is a fast growing love that is wiggled its way into my heart and I don’t see it going away from my safe anytime soon.

If you like to see the RED mist I would go with the 204 (I never knew what I was missing till I got the 204 and seen the red mist for the first time). The 22-250 has to much recoil to see the mist off the bench (for me I couldn’t see it)

If you can swing it I would get both, they are great rounds with there own nitch.

Warf

greenmtnboy · « **Reply #42 on:** February 15, 2008, 03:06:11 AM »

22-250 Hands down Its proven itself. The 204 is just another oddball trying to make a go of it with Less options in Reloading .

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #43 on:** February 15, 2008, 03:25:46 AM »

sorta like the 22-250 was as a wildcat ?

Davemuzz · « **Reply #44 on:** February 15, 2008, 03:54:22 AM »

I never shot the 204, and I probably will never own one. I don't own a 22-250. I shoot groundhogs with a .223 and my hunting buddy brings his 22-250. Out to about 250 yards we can both kill a hog "bang...roll stop". After than, when I hit 'em they run in a circle for a few seconds and then give the "tail spiral of death". His 22-250 has a bit more energy so they don't seem to run...they just kind of roll and then do the spiral thing.

I got "suckered" into the 17hmr when that was first introduced. I sold that gun. It seems to me that the tried and true "old standby" cartridges are still darn good workhorses and do the job. They have great bullet choices and powder choices and flexibility when it comes to reloading. For me, I'll stick to the long proven rounds. One of my favorites is the 45-70. I don't think I'll still be around if the 204 last that long.

MHO

Dave

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #45 on:** February 15, 2008, 04:27:00 AM »

I have stayed in the 32-34 grain with the 204 and like the fast flat red mist it makes .The 223 is a real work horse in 45-55grain but ya don't get to see the mist and the 225 Winchester is gonna get 55-70 grain high velocity loads for 300yards and out. But the 204 is by far the most fun to shoot if ya want to get out to 350 yards on prairie dogs the 45 grain may be the ticket for coyotes with 204. Kurt

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #46 on:** February 15, 2008, 04:29:06 AM »

I shoot all three 204 ,223 . & 22-250 !
problem solved !

njanear · « **Reply #47 on:** February 15, 2008, 11:51:29 AM »

Quote from: greenmtnboy on February 15, 2008, 03:06:11 AM

22-250 Hands down Its proven itself. The 204 is just another oddball trying to make a go of it with Less options in Reloading .

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 15, 2008, 03:25:46 AM

sorta like the 22-250 was as a wildcat ?

In 50 years, when the 40-watt plasma rifle is compared to the .204, we will hear a similar argument.

McLernon · « **Reply #48 on:** February 16, 2008, 08:41:17 AM »

Just get both and be done with it

Mc

dw06 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 16, 2008, 12:35:12 PM »

I like Shootalls solution,shoot all three!!Could be why he's called Shootall!!

Davemuzz · « **Reply #50 on:** February 16, 2008, 01:12:56 PM »

Of course, just when I get done saying "I'll stick to the long time proven cartridges", I have been reading about the 17 rem, and the 17 Rem Fireball. Actually, the 17 Rem is the faster of the 2. It's a centerfire 17 caliber that's pretty quick out of the muzzle with a 25 grain bullet. The guys at this site http://www.coyotegods.com/pagepart15.html are not interested in "promoting" the gun or the caliber for profit (they certainly are for their tape) and they are fairly confident of it's killing ability on western coyotes.

(Semi-post hi-jack?) Nah.....just throwin one in the mix for killin fur bearer's without destroying the fur.

Dave

njanear · « **Reply #51 on:** February 16, 2008, 02:09:00 PM »

The .17 Remington has been around since 1971 and people are still just discovering it.

Of course, those fellows really push it on that site and if you ever mention using anything larger (like a .22-250 or a .308), well, that's not what they want to hear and they will quickly let you know that is not how it should be done...

Davemuzz · « **Reply #52 on:** February 16, 2008, 04:30:49 PM »

njanear, Yeah..they do jump all over any other caliber. If your just going to shoot a coyote, walk up to it and look at it and say "hey....I just shot this coyote", then a .243 or a .308 or even a 30-06 will do ya just fine. But if your looking to save some fur, then the tiny 'n fast calibers may make more sense. I dunno. I think the only way to find out is to (1) buy a gun (2) buy a barrel for your Savage (3) buy a barrel for your T\C. Then go out and shoot up some of your local fur and see how it does.

MHO

Dave

kevthebassman · « **Reply #53 on:** February 17, 2008, 01:31:59 AM »

Quote from: njanear on February 16, 2008, 02:09:00 PM

The .17 Remington has been around since 1971 and people are still just discovering it. Of course, those fellows really push it on that site and if you ever mention using anything larger (like a .22-250 or a .308), well, that's not what they want to hear and they will quickly let you know that is not how it should be done...

They're a good group though, and have killed a whole mess of coyotes. But yes, they (we) will jump down the throat of anyone who comes in to their house and tries to tell them how things should be done. The site is about taking coyotes for fur, and they use calibers suitable to that task. 22-250 is ill suited to that task when you're talking calling ranges of less than 100 yards and sometimes much closer, and a .308 is an elk gun.

As far as caliber selection is concerned, they are a little more open minded than what some people give them credit for. .204 Ruger, .221 Fireball, .22 Hornet, and even the .222 are all accepted there, to name a few.

If you don't like it, you can always pack up your toys and go play elsewhere. I happen to be a member and went to the Rondy, and can tell you that you'd have a hard time meeting a finer group of guys. I'm really proud to be able to call them my friends.

njanear · « **Reply #54 on:** February 17, 2008, 05:06:58 AM »

Quote from: kevthebassman on February 17, 2008, 01:31:59 AM

Quote from: njanear on February 16, 2008, 02:09:00 PM
The .17 Remington has been around since 1971 and people are still just discovering it. Of course, those fellows really push it on that site and if you ever mention using anything larger (like a .22-250 or a .308), well, that's not what they want to hear and they will quickly let you know that is not how it should be done...
They're a good group though, and have killed a whole mess of coyotes. But yes, they (we) will jump down the throat of anyone who comes in to their house and tries to tell them how things should be done. The site is about taking coyotes for fur, and they use calibers suitable to that task. 22-250 is ill suited to that task when you're talking calling ranges of less than 100 yards and sometimes much closer, and a .308 is an elk gun.

As far as caliber selection is concerned, they are a little more open minded than what some people give them credit for. .204 Ruger, .221 Fireball, .22 Hornet, and even the .222 are all accepted there, to name a few.

If you don't like it, you can always pack up your toys and go play elsewhere. I happen to be a member and went to the Rondy, and can tell you that you'd have a hard time meeting a finer group of guys. I'm really proud to be able to call them my friends.

Sorry to get you so upset.

Those guys do know a lot but to jump on newbies because they ask if a caliber will work.. come on.

I actually used to frequent there quite a bit, back before the .204 was out in large numbers - the senior members used to rip guys for the mention of the .204 (and didn't speak highly of the .223 either). That is why I 'packed up my toys' and left to 'play elsewhere'. They never seemed to realize that the coyotes aren't always collected for fur; they are predators that many people simply look to remove (like they did/do as Animal Damage Control specialists). The farmers, ranchers, etc. don't always have an extra $800 or more to go spend on a rifle chambered in a limited-use cartridge such as the .17 or even the .204. At least with a .223 or .22/250 or .243, the rifle could still be used for deer in many states (the .22s do get nixed in a few). I am glad that they don't rip others now on the use of the .204, .221, etc. - that's a great improvement, so maybe I should revisit and check them out again.

Again, I really applaud them for the excellent information that they put out for others to learn from, but back then, to attack people for asking simple questions or making different caliber choices was unnecessary and something that I chose not to be part of (posts such as your emotional response above were a daily thing) - I would rather be here with the great members of GBO and have civil discussions on the various merits of firearms and calibers. Life is too short to get so defensive or worked-up over such trivial things - if that is your cup of tea, then by all means, feel free to hang out solely with the 'coyote gods'.

Regards,
Ron

njanear · « **Reply #55 on:** February 17, 2008, 05:20:22 AM »

Quote from: Davemuzz on February 16, 2008, 04:30:49 PM

njanear, Yeah..they do jump all over any other caliber. If your just going to shoot a coyote, walk up to it and look at it and say "hey....I just shot this coyote", then a .243 or a .308 or even a 30-06 will do ya just fine. But if your looking to save some fur, then the tiny 'n fast calibers may make more sense. I dunno. I think the only way to find out is to (1) buy a gun (2) buy a barrel for your Savage (3) buy a barrel for your T\C. Then go out and shoot up some of your local fur and see how it does.

MHO

Dave

I actually have a NEF .204 that I bought to use on coyotes - now to just find a place where I can go after them. I bought that before I discovered that it apparently can't be used at all in the National Forests or WMAs (restricted to calibers that are used in Deer, Bear, Turkey or Small Game season - the .204 isn't eligible for any of them). I wish that I had read that closely beforehand, as I would have chose the .22/250 then. Since I also have 3 .223s, I'll just use them instead. Around here, fur isn't the name of the game, but I think the .308 and .45/70 are definitely overkill, and the .17HM2s are underkill (but I have considered my .280 with 120gr bullets for a little extra Oomph

).

kevthebassman · « **Reply #56 on:** February 17, 2008, 05:24:54 AM »

I really apologize if I came off as angry or emotional, that was not my intention. Quite the opposite, in fact. I can see how my post would come off that way now that I read it again but that isn't what I was going for.

I realize that not everyone hunts coyotes for fur, or wants to use a certain caliber, but that's the beauty of the internet..... there is a place for everyone. Vic and John-Henry made their site (packed up their toys and found a new place to play) for that very reason.

Since it is their house, they can manage it any way they please. There is a big section entitled "read before posting," that clearly lays out the philosophy of the site, and answers many of the newbie questions before they are ever asked. Some people can't follow simple instructions such as "read before posting" and when that happens people have a bit of sport with them, then the newbie gets butthurt and goes back to predator masters..... point is, they aren't there to make everyone happy and pat people on the back for blowing big holes in coyotes, and that's their right.

Again, I'm not trying to bash anyone for doing their thing, and I'm not trying to come off like a jerk but sometimes typing doesn't allow the writer's true feelings to be known.

njanear · « **Reply #57 on:** February 17, 2008, 07:55:47 AM »

Quote from: kevthebassman on February 17, 2008, 05:24:54 AM

I really apologize if I came off as angry or emotional, that was not my intention. Quite the opposite, in fact. I can see how my post would come off that way now that I read it again but that isn't what I was going for.

I realize that not everyone hunts coyotes for fur, or wants to use a certain caliber, but that's the beauty of the internet..... there is a place for everyone. Vic and John-Henry made their site (packed up their toys and found a new place to play) for that very reason.

Since it is their house, they can manage it any way they please. There is a big section entitled "read before posting," that clearly lays out the philosophy of the site, and answers many of the newbie questions before they are ever asked. Some people can't follow simple instructions such as "read before posting" and when that happens people have a bit of sport with them, then the newbie gets butthurt and goes back to predator masters..... point is, they aren't there to make everyone happy and pat people on the back for blowing big holes in coyotes, and that's their right.

Again, I'm not trying to bash anyone for doing their thing, and I'm not trying to come off like a jerk but sometimes typing doesn't allow the writer's true feelings to be known.

No hard feelings here at all, my friend. It is their house and I do like their articles - and they really had me wanting a .17 Rem. barrel for my T/C for quite a while.

Personally I don't get off on exploding animals (i.e. I shoot a .17HM2 instead of a .17HMR for gray squirrels) and really dig the tiny bores. I am also not a farmer or rancher so I have no NEED to kill the coyotes - just the DESIRE to hunt an elusive predator (but I can't take the pelt home or I will probably NEED a divorce attorney

). I am also fortunate enough to have plenty of caliber choices on hand to satisfy any hunting need in the continental US (so I can leave the .338 at home when heading out deer hunting). I also understand being around newbies on the Net, and I guess I have a soft spot for them (like newborn puppies or kittens

). Too bad we can't make entrance exams based on the FAQs for new members - that would make it so much easier for many. I guess we all have to start somewhere

To the OP: Sorry for the sidetrack.

MO · « **Reply #58 on:** February 22, 2008, 03:01:12 PM »

Quote from: just bill on January 13, 2008, 01:27:44 PM

Paper stats a side. I can tell you this from actual field hunting experience. A 22-250 or 220 Swift hits a Woodchuck a heck of a lot harder at all distances than a 204. In fact they hit noticeably harder than all the common varmint calibers below 6mm.

I have an ultra varminter in .243 throwing 55gr ballistic tips that begs to differ with that statement. (and I don't want to hear that .243 is the same as the .244 6mm)