410 shotgun, useless?

[towpro]

I need to send the buffalo classic back to get the latch fixed.  I was thinking of adding a 26" 410 barrel.  How far is the pattern useful for small critters (like the size of a chicken)?  I already have a topper 20 gauge, 16 gauge pump and 12 gauge pump.

Are they much quieter then a 20 gauge?  price is right.

[trotterlg]

Except for being able to say you have one I can't think of anything you would do with it.  Larry

[dumgunny]

  Ballistically speaking, a .410 bore is nothing to sneeze at! Except for pattern density, a 410 field load will shoot just as far and as hard as a 12, and is noticeably quieter doing it. The reason you lose effective range is much more related to the greater dispersal of pellets which causes bigger "holes" in the pattern, than from any lack of velocity. One pellet from a 410 travels virtually just as far as the same sized pellet fired from a 12 at almost the same speed which would mean the terminal ballistics would have to be similar as well.
   The biggest drawback I see in a 410 is that ammo is almost twice as costly as 12 or 20 gauge, but that only teaches you  the "aim small, miss small" lesson. On the positive side, the 410 is light recoiling, lightweight, and a good teaching aid! Try a couple of days in the Quail or Dove fields or the sporting clays range with a 410! The targets will look like they are twice as close and half as fast when you go back to your 12ga!
    I have a Stevens 311 .410 that my Dad gave me for my 8th Birthday and I hated it! I couldn't wait to graduate to a 12ga and now, 40 years later, Its the only shotgun I have that I can carry rabbit hunting behind the beagles and not be winded after 20 minutes. Once in a while I even shoot a rabbit with it!
   It is by far my most prized earthly possession, and when I go, I have arranged for it to be buried with  me on the off chance that I'll need a rabbit gun in Heaven!

[Sourdough]

A 410 is the worst thing you can do to a kid!  I teach kids to shoot.  Often we take them to the skeet range, and put them on station 1 and 7 to shoot the clay birds.  I tell the parents that I will furnish the shotgun.  Often some Dad will insist that his kid use his old .410.  After we get to the range the kids with the .410s lose interest fast when they can't hit anything, while their friends are hitting the targets with my 20ga.  Dad's will get frustrated, and sometimes start yelling at the kid.  I now have the rule no private shotguns to keep the .410s off the range when I am teaching kids.

[no guns here]

Gotta agree/disagree... yup the .410 sort of sucks for young kids to learn to wingshoot I agree there.  But, it's not USELESS.  Works pretty good for a kid's squirrel gun.  Doesn't kick much and isn't too loud.  I killed a bunch of squirrels and rabbits as a kid with my .410 while walking along with dad and grandad as they were quail hunting.  For things that aren't moving or that will stop like a rabbit does it works fine.  I personally can't hit crap with it in the air even now.


ngh

[coyotejoe]

I agree that the .410 makes a pretty poor shotgun but a fun pistol. I gave one of the Comanchee .45/410 singleshots to a friend and he took nine or ten grouse with it last season. I pattern tested it at 25 yards and found that with the full choke tube it would be deadly on birds and bunnies past 25 yards. With the .45 colt tube installed the pattern was much wider but also more uniform and would be effective to twenty yards. Patterns with that hundred and fifty dollar gun were much better than from the T/C Contender, perhaps because the rifling is very shallow and doesn't spin the shot load. In that gun it is the .45 Colt that is useless, so I milled off the rear sight and cut the front down to a low bead making it strictly a shot pistol. Many people handicap their .410 with large shot which only exacerbates the pattern density problem, number 7 1/2 shot will deliver adequate penetration to 30 yards, which is about the maximum effective range for pattern density, so there is no advantage in ever using a shot larger than 7 1/2 from the .410.

[rex6666]

Good for you Sourdough, i think that a 410 is the last thing you would start a kid with.
I got a savage single shot full choke 410 for Christmas (Santa brought it) in 1955 i was 8 years old
, i was mad at Santa for years, my dad finally let start carring a 16 gauge single
it was an unwriten law in my family not to shoot squrriels with a shot gun, so that is where
i learn to shoot a 22, and you shoot them in the head.

[Ranger J]

My first gun was a Savage O/U with the 22 on top and a 410 on the bottom.  That gun accounted for numerous rabbits, quail and even a few squirrels.  It was and still is a great little gun.  The only problem with a .410 is the price of the shells.  If I were buying that gun today I would want a 20g on the bottom.  The shells are much cheaper and easier to reload.

RJ

[Odinbreaker]

I cut the barrel on a 410 to 20inches I shot at gopher's in the yard and got diviots from the tight choke I now have an open choke that gives me a 20 inch pattern at about 15 yds just perfect for gophers and fast close grouse

[SHOOTALL]

I agree about not giving it to a kid but add that's what was done to me and well I killed alot of quail , rabbit , squirrel and one turkey with it . got it about age 8 used it till about 11 .
kids don't know they are missing the other gauges and the ones that want to hunt anyway will learn to use the tool given them . that doesn't make it the best choice but in some cases it works out !
its a nice bore to have around a farm . it can shoot buck shot , slugs and fine shot !
it seems some one kills a deer around here with a 410 every year or so , one a year or so back was a 70 yard shot with buck shot 3 of the 5 buck shot hit the deer . I have seen 12 ga. do less . which brings up the limiting factor , they just don't hold alot of shot ! BUT if you practice you can learn the gun and do OK  ! skeet shooters do it all the time !
shells are high in cost like the 28 ga. i have a o/u that's fun to shoot but its a derringer and best saved for another day !
i will leave you with this if you think all guns should equal a 12 ga. you will be disappointed but if you want a light easy kicking knock around/truck gun you may be in for a pleasant surprise !

[plumberroy]

don't under estimate a 410 in the hands of a patient hunter
In the early 90's My Dad was in poor health but wanted a turkey just once after discussing the hunt I was to set behind him and call, tap him when to take the shot, when the jake went behind a tree at 14 step away I taped Dad on the shoulder when the bird step out Dad pulled the trigger the ammo was remington express #6's 3" 410 out of an old mossberg bolt action 14 steps yearling jake, dad only turkey Dad felt that a 410 was all he could stand to shoot  and he was good with that 410
I agree that a 410 is not a kids gun for flying game or clay birds  it makes  a good squirrel gun for a kid though  In the last few years I find that  i use a 410 or 28 ga more and leave the 12  at home  unless I need heavy loads of shot
By the way Dad has since went on to higher ground and that old bolt action mossy 410  is hanging on the wall right above me
Roy

[KenSel]

I got an old beat up H@R 410 when I was 7.  It belonged to my uncle and he gave it to me.  The bead had been broken off so my dad drilled it put in an allen screw and placed a little weld on top.  It looks funny, but it'll sure shoot.  I've killed 2 turkeys, about a dozen grouse, 3 deer, a 200lb black bear, and hundreds of squirrels and rabbits.  A 410 useless?; Not mine!     

Ken

[knight0334]

My 4th gun was a NEF .410(1st = Rem nylon 22, 2nd = NEF 12ga, 3rd = NEF 20ga).   I cant begin to count the number of dove, rabbits and squirrel that I harvested with it.   It didn't have a dense enough pattern to take fast flying dove, but the "gliders" usually ended up with a strip of bacon rapped around their breast in the oven.  Similar experience with bunnies, except squatters ended up in batter. 

I wouldn't use a .410 for trap shooting, but if used within its usable range - it still a viable gun.

[bscman]

.410 makes a great grouse gun, IMHO.
We try and carry one when we're out scouting for bear as a lot of the grouse we run across are pretty much *sleeping* along gravel roads. Shots are usually within 15 yards and the .410 offers a little less noise and recoil.

Just too bad it's so darn expensive.

[student1946]

My first gun was also a mod 24 savage.I grew up on a small lake, and one of my proudest memories was the duck season i got 25 ducks with a box of shells.Not a lot of passing shots,I sneaked  up on my belly and shot them going away when they flew.worked especially well with diving ducks,harder with mallards and pintails.I thought I was a mighty hunter that year Got grouse and bar tailed pigeons from time to time too.Wish I still had it.

[dumgunny]

A 410 is the worst thing you can do to a kid!  I teach kids to shoot.  Often we take them to the skeet range, and put them on station 1 and 7 to shoot the clay birds.  I tell the parents that I will furnish the shotgun.  Often some Dad will insist that his kid use his old .410.  After we get to the range the kids with the .410s lose interest fast when they can't hit anything, while their friends are hitting the targets with my 20ga.  Dad's will get frustrated, and sometimes start yelling at the kid.  I now have the rule no private shotguns to keep the .410s off the range when I am teaching kids.

  I'm not surprised that it is challenging to teach kids today to shoot, like most of us, they have been inundated with the  "instant gratification" that is sadly prevalent in our country today, and I have no trouble believing that they are easily discouraged by lack of success.
   My comments weren't meant to suggest that they were the perfect tool to encourage confidence, but I DO think that a kid is less likely to be traumatized by the noise and recoil of a .410, and it is a useful tool for not only fitting a gun to someone of smaller stature, but building safe gun handling skills and techniques.

[Sourdough]

My Dad gave me my first gun when I was 10, a Savage V-24.  .22RF and .410 I grew to hate that thing.  I shot at many squirrels and rabbits but never hit anything with the .410.  My grandfather gave me a box of .22 shells and from then on I started bring home squirrels and rabbits. The only thing I ever killed with the shotgun was a goat.  Neighbors had a nasty Billy goat.  It had knocked their Grandma down and had hurt her by slashing her with it's hoofs, and butting her repeatedly.  Us kids had been warned to watch out for the animal, "It was dangerous" according to my mother.  We I was walking out to the barn to go hunt squirrels when here comes that goat.  With it's head down it was coming straight at me.  I knew the .22LR would not do any thing to stop him, so I pushed the button in the side down for the shotgun barrel pointed ti at his head, and slapped the trigger.  Goats head was about a foot from the barrel when I shot, did a number on the goat.

One of my brothers is a real smart ---, and he has a son that is the same way.  One year I got tired of hearing how good a shot he is, and how his son is growing up to be just like him.  Christmas was coming, and Dad asked me what I was going to do with that old shotgun, meaning the .22/410 Savage.  I had left it at home when I moved out, and it was still in his closet.  I went and found a box, wrapped it up, and gave it to my nephew for Christmas.  Christmas day we all went squirrel hunting and took my brother and his son.  That gun has not been fired since, nor has it been out of the house.

The wife gave me another Savage over and under a few years ago for my birthday, to use as a survival gun for the airplane.  But at least she is gun savy and got me a .308/12ga.  Now this one I like.           

[McLernon]

The 410 is the gun of choice for upland game as far as I am concerned. Lighter too!

Mc

[trotterlg]

One thing to remember with a 410 is that, while it may pattern OK on a pice of paper, the shot columm is very long.  the time difference between the arrivel of the first pellet and the last is much longer than a 12 gauge is, so on a moving object the results may be a lot different than the paper pattern would suggest.  Larry

[AKbuilder]

No, it will teach you more about shooting than a 12 ga.  Take a .410 to the trap range, it is not nearly as forgiving as a 12 ga.  Nobody can flinch from a .410, yes the pattern different.  But if you do your job the .410 will break the birds.

I feel the real place for the .410 is rabbits and such in the yard.  I have  a .410 Handi over at the folks place, it just plane is the best for cotton tail rabbits.

Thanks,
Paul

[Fred M]

Some time ago I used to shoot a lot of skeet with all four gauges. First I had a
Rem 1100 2-1/2" 410 Skeet which was a deadly skeet gun. Later I used a 101
with Briley skeet tubes in 20. 28. and 410.The Rem 1100 410 Skeet is the
only gun I ever shot triples on ducks.

We were out on a permit shoot and I bagged 56 ducks with three boxes of shells(75), made several triples. The ducks were thick that evening coming into a slough from a barley field. You don't get these kind of duck shoots anymore. Though there more ducks then ever before, but no more permit shoots.

Don't ever sell a 410 short, but you need to a bit more precise. Some day I
find a nice SXS 410. BTW 3" 410's with a full choke don't patteren very well.
Use 2-1/2" shells with a skeet choke.

[superdown]

I like the 410 it is not a useless cartridge. My second gun was a snake charmer (my first was a Stevens 22 single shot bolt). I couldnt tell you how many rabbits and grouse i got with that gun. fortunately i was taught proper lead time and never had a problem hitting birds in the air with it. Well simply i am a fan of the 410. Superdown

[fernie]

towpro,

No, it's anything but useless.  It has its drawbacks like others have already posted.  At full choke mine is VERY tight and it shoots to the right.  But it puts slugs in an inch at 30 yards - go figure.  And with the fore end whittled down and the butt drilled out it is light as a feather.  I wish I had a modified choke.

Doc

[mi hunter]

like many of you my dad got me a 410 when i was a kid and i hated it, i just couldnt wait to get a 12 guage. now here i am 30yrs old with a few 12 guages and when i go small game hunting i usually take my 20 gauge and would use a 410 if the shells werent so dang expensive.
my girlfriend wont use anything but her 410 for small game and doesnt seem to have any problem hitting either squirrels or grouse with it

[ncsurveyor]

It took me a while to get the hang of my 410 pump, but it did turn out to be a more enjoyable dove and pheasant gun than my 12 gauge.



(get a 28 gauge.    )

[dpastordan]

My first firearm was a J.C. Higgins bolt action .410 I received when I was nine years old.  Dad figured it would not knock me down and that I would learn to make every shot count.  For squirrel, it was great.  My brothers and I used it for squirrels, rabbit, and game birds.  I swapped the .410 for a .22 single shot of my brother's when I bought my first 12 gauge.  Later, I bought a single shot folding .410 for dove and squirrel.  I was in the Army and most Army bases would not allow the use of a .22 rifle for hunting [most limit hunting to shotguns only]. 

I recently purchased a four-tenner on e-bay.  I have a .22Magnum over 20 gauge (Baikal IZH 94) that I consider my ultimate truck gun. 

I like the .410 but it is expensive.  Though I have used 20 and 12 gauges on squirrel, I prefer the .410. 

As far as whether or not it is useful for a child...it really depends upon the child and the type of game one is hunting.  For me, I started my boys based on their size and maturity.  My older son at the age of ten was husky so I started him wth a 12 gauge single shot with light reloads.  For my second son, he was slender so I started him with a 20 gauge pump with one shell at a time. 

[glwenzl]

The best use I have found for my NEF 410 is to shoot 45 LC loaded up with 9-12 shot. I was leaving on a fishing trip and accidentally found out that this combo was the prefect solution to getting rid of hornet/wasp nest. It didn't hurt the wood in my out sheds very bad and it took the whole nest out including the bees and was great fun.... Never tried the 410 but would imagine it would chew the barn wood up pretty bad…

I also use a 410 to quail hunt sometimes but it is an old single-shot bolt action but does have screw in chokes. I have taken a few pheasants but if the dog doesn't point em and they get up out there a ways I never shoot... I found all my pheasants but a couple ran like a sun of a gun!

410s are a blast but like stated many time already, don’t start a kids out on one

[ALLANGT]

I got a .410 as my first gun at 8 years old.
Never had a problem killing squirrels, doves, ducks, rabbits, quail, and a few 'dillos.
Still love that little gun.

[billy_56081]

We found the .410 to be far from useless this day. All were wild pheasants and were shot with .410s all except one were single shots. We had only 2 or 3 lost this day. We have a .41o pheasant hunt at a friends farm every year and it is great fun.

[myarmor]

Great pic and thanks for sharing. I always like to see new pics.
I'm surprised  this topic is still here in the centerfire forum as it pertains to nothing here....oh well.
The 410 is kinda a moot point to me, but I know many here love theirs and wouldn't part with them for anything. I see it as a fun caliber but also with potiential with the Mongo loadings. But have found no sufficient data for such that turns me. But as has been shown many here have a lot of fun and use for theirs, it's kind of like having a 444 or 44Mag and wanting a 38special/or 357. Use for some but not all perhaps.



-Aaron